20G lag
05 August 2008, 10:28 AM
#31
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harvey mine does have a turn buckle on it
however could you email me through the pics as thats not making too much sense to me lol j16jrf@hotmail.com is my email address
however could you email me through the pics as thats not making too much sense to me lol j16jrf@hotmail.com is my email address
05 August 2008, 12:12 PM
#32
Associate ? You are talking in riddles. Please explain.
So we know what you are talking about, what car and what mapper ?
My own WRX on one of my own 05-06 20gs runs 422 bhp on my own headers and uppipe. Tim Waterson's car with similar spec did 409 bhp. I can think of two others with similar spec, one at 418 I am told and the other, a New Age with a similar figure.
Was the person making the claim that power would increase from 420 to 440-450 bhp trying to sell a set of tubular headers?
Nobody has been in touch with me to say their car is restricted to 420 bhp or any other figure for that matter because of my ported headers. My advice generally is that certainly up to the top output of an 05-06 20g ported headers win hands down and I know this from the extensive testing I have done both at Steve Simpson's and Northallerton.
I would happily have made the offer below if I had received any complaint because I am not trying to sell things that are not the best choice for the application in question.
I have a set of brand new tubular headers and uppipe here and I am prepared to fit them FOC to the car limited to 420 bhp providing we run it over a rolling road immediately before and after the header swap. The person in question, whoever that may be, can then pay for the tubular headers (£335) if he wants them to stay on the car but fitting them will have been free.
I have already done tests on my own WRX Wagon (and others) and know the difference between ported headers with uppipe and tubular headers. From memory a top end difference of 2 bhp (on my own vehicle) in favour of the tubular at that level but the ported headers spooled streets ahead of the tubular and the car was much more responsive.
There is a 4WD rolling road at Northallerton so we can do the whole thing, same day and the "restricted" owner has a win win situation, unless of course he wants the ported headers back on which will cost £70. I will pick up the tab for the two rolling road runs so here is what we will achieve.
1. Verification that the car does have the claimed 420 bhp or similar with my ported headers and uppipe.
2. The power difference between my ported and GT Spec tubular 3 bolt flange.
3. Spool up rates can also be compared from the graphs provided.
This can all be done Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday of this week or we can make an appointment for some other date. Let me know when you want to do this and the results can be published on Scoobynet.
Seems to me like this could provide lots of useful information to Scoobynet members.
So we know what you are talking about, what car and what mapper ?
My own WRX on one of my own 05-06 20gs runs 422 bhp on my own headers and uppipe. Tim Waterson's car with similar spec did 409 bhp. I can think of two others with similar spec, one at 418 I am told and the other, a New Age with a similar figure.
Was the person making the claim that power would increase from 420 to 440-450 bhp trying to sell a set of tubular headers?
Nobody has been in touch with me to say their car is restricted to 420 bhp or any other figure for that matter because of my ported headers. My advice generally is that certainly up to the top output of an 05-06 20g ported headers win hands down and I know this from the extensive testing I have done both at Steve Simpson's and Northallerton.
I would happily have made the offer below if I had received any complaint because I am not trying to sell things that are not the best choice for the application in question.
I have a set of brand new tubular headers and uppipe here and I am prepared to fit them FOC to the car limited to 420 bhp providing we run it over a rolling road immediately before and after the header swap. The person in question, whoever that may be, can then pay for the tubular headers (£335) if he wants them to stay on the car but fitting them will have been free.
I have already done tests on my own WRX Wagon (and others) and know the difference between ported headers with uppipe and tubular headers. From memory a top end difference of 2 bhp (on my own vehicle) in favour of the tubular at that level but the ported headers spooled streets ahead of the tubular and the car was much more responsive.
There is a 4WD rolling road at Northallerton so we can do the whole thing, same day and the "restricted" owner has a win win situation, unless of course he wants the ported headers back on which will cost £70. I will pick up the tab for the two rolling road runs so here is what we will achieve.
1. Verification that the car does have the claimed 420 bhp or similar with my ported headers and uppipe.
2. The power difference between my ported and GT Spec tubular 3 bolt flange.
3. Spool up rates can also be compared from the graphs provided.
This can all be done Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday of this week or we can make an appointment for some other date. Let me know when you want to do this and the results can be published on Scoobynet.
Seems to me like this could provide lots of useful information to Scoobynet members.
What an offer
I'll do it lol
05 August 2008, 02:55 PM
#33
you infer my headers are responsible for a loss of 20 or 30 bhp and I just don't accept that but I would like to get to the bottom of it.
We can determine the facts and they can be openly published on here. I cannot remember advising anyone to go for ported headers beyond 440-450 bhp if ultimate power (as opposed to early torque) was their objective.
I was not saying your headers are responsible for his problem, But on his power goal they were not enough, as to why I said "there is a time and a place for ported headers" His header have been on the car for a while so they were not added for this stage of mods. As for your offer on the rolling road ! This could obviously not be done as the extra BHP has to come from mapping and simply fitting a set and hoping they would gain 20/30bhp is not realistic.
06 August 2008, 08:31 AM
#34
Hi Steve : Glad we clarified that. I had a phone call yesterday, two in fact relating to this and the thread on Tyne Tees Scoobies. The first caller highlighted the fact that there were several 2 litre cars with my ported headers and TD05-06 20g all producing in the 409-420 bhp range, three cars that he named plus a couple more over 400 bhp. Now if these cars are producing that power on my ported headers and 20g turbo then clearly the car in question with a 321T should be producing more power and it is not down to the ported headers as previouslly claimed. If that is what the mapper is saying and I find that hard to believe, then he is talking out of his backside. There must be underlying issues with the car if it is only producing the same power as we have out of several of my own TD05-06 20gs and he now has a 321T
My effort would be put in to determining the underlying issues.
When Andy Greer came to me for ported headers it was because he was running someone else's 05-06 20g and my ported headers were his best option at that time. The car was mapped by Bob Rawle and myself and Andy was very happy with it. HAD he asked me for the best headers to go with the second hand 321T he subsequently purchased he would have been clearly told that while spool would suffer a bit a set of GT tubular headers would probably be his best option as he was going for a turbo capable of over 450 bhp on his 2 litre. .(Claimed elswhere to produce 490 bhp)
I have since spoken to Andy and offered him a set of tubular headers which I retail at £335 and I also have a modification he may wish to trial that will further improve his performance. Despite his remap elsewhere a few days ago, he is also booked in for mapping with Bob Rawle again on his next visit.
Andy is welcome to publish any graphs he has now or following his next mapping session and comment on the advice he has had from me.
My effort would be put in to determining the underlying issues.
When Andy Greer came to me for ported headers it was because he was running someone else's 05-06 20g and my ported headers were his best option at that time. The car was mapped by Bob Rawle and myself and Andy was very happy with it. HAD he asked me for the best headers to go with the second hand 321T he subsequently purchased he would have been clearly told that while spool would suffer a bit a set of GT tubular headers would probably be his best option as he was going for a turbo capable of over 450 bhp on his 2 litre. .(Claimed elswhere to produce 490 bhp)
I have since spoken to Andy and offered him a set of tubular headers which I retail at £335 and I also have a modification he may wish to trial that will further improve his performance. Despite his remap elsewhere a few days ago, he is also booked in for mapping with Bob Rawle again on his next visit.
Andy is welcome to publish any graphs he has now or following his next mapping session and comment on the advice he has had from me.
Last edited by harvey; 06 August 2008 at 09:37 AM.
06 August 2008, 09:49 AM
#38
Your first photo shows a turbo with and a turbo without an adjustable actuator, the adjustable actuator being on the turbo I originally supplied to Ian Smith.
You will find it is already correctly tensioned, unless someone else has played with it in the meantime!!!
Check or adjust the actuator rod per the sketch and that eliminates one issue.
In 4th gear you should have 1 bar by 3,100-3,300 subject to the mods you are running and full boost by 3,500 to 3,600 or thereabouts.
You will find it is already correctly tensioned, unless someone else has played with it in the meantime!!!
Check or adjust the actuator rod per the sketch and that eliminates one issue.
In 4th gear you should have 1 bar by 3,100-3,300 subject to the mods you are running and full boost by 3,500 to 3,600 or thereabouts.
06 August 2008, 10:30 AM
#39
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thanks Harvey got the email mate so will have a look
i will still take the boost controller pipes off and just let the turbo run and make sure it is getting boost when it should be carefully lol.
then we can rule that out at least.
i will still take the boost controller pipes off and just let the turbo run and make sure it is getting boost when it should be carefully lol.
then we can rule that out at least.
06 August 2008, 12:27 PM
#40
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I find the diameter of the GT spec up pipe to be far too big for the smaller td05/xxg turbos, in comparison to say the gruppeS which have a much more similar diameter to the exhaust housing.
This cannot help spool.
on say a md321t/tx/555 the exhaust housing diameter is much more in tune with the opening to the gt spec up pipe.
This cannot help spool.
on say a md321t/tx/555 the exhaust housing diameter is much more in tune with the opening to the gt spec up pipe.
06 September 2008, 06:26 PM
#41
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ok all sorted and actually a very easy fix.
after looking everywhere except the obvisous lol.
The actuator arm to the waste gate had got bent somewhere along the line allowing the wastegate to stay slightly open during spool up.
Took the surclip off straightened the arm, so it was coming back out of the centre of the actuator, then adjusted the arm until it was at a good length to keep the wastegate shut during spool up and hey presto
full boost of 1.5 bar is now achieved at 3900-4000 rpm which is such a vast improvement.
So all good again and the car is flying. Harvey you build one hell of a turbo my friend
after looking everywhere except the obvisous lol.
The actuator arm to the waste gate had got bent somewhere along the line allowing the wastegate to stay slightly open during spool up.
Took the surclip off straightened the arm, so it was coming back out of the centre of the actuator, then adjusted the arm until it was at a good length to keep the wastegate shut during spool up and hey presto
full boost of 1.5 bar is now achieved at 3900-4000 rpm which is such a vast improvement.
So all good again and the car is flying. Harvey you build one hell of a turbo my friend
07 September 2008, 08:30 AM
#42
Thanks for that Jim. We mapped another one yesterday morning on a 2.5l. I don't like to relyon delta dash figures but it is well over 400 bhp and spooling early with 1 bar in 4th at 2,700. We will get some reliable dyno figures later.
From your information the problem was pointing to the W.G. so glad you got it sorted now...........You were still doing good boost with the WG open!!!
From your information the problem was pointing to the W.G. so glad you got it sorted now...........You were still doing good boost with the WG open!!!
07 September 2008, 09:49 AM
#43
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yeah lol didnt do too badly for the wastegate being open lol.
now getting 1 bar at 3500 and 1.5 at 3900-4000 which im very happy with.
car feels so much more alive now and on launch the tyres struggle to grip which is always fun haha
now getting 1 bar at 3500 and 1.5 at 3900-4000 which im very happy with.
car feels so much more alive now and on launch the tyres struggle to grip which is always fun haha
07 September 2008, 10:14 AM
#44
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Thanks for that Jim. We mapped another one yesterday morning on a 2.5l. I don't like to relyon delta dash figures but it is well over 400 bhp and spooling early with 1 bar in 4th at 2,700. We will get some reliable dyno figures later.
From your information the problem was pointing to the W.G. so glad you got it sorted now...........You were still doing good boost with the WG open!!!
From your information the problem was pointing to the W.G. so glad you got it sorted now...........You were still doing good boost with the WG open!!!
07 September 2008, 10:26 AM
#45
Jamie,
I beleive i have mentioned before that you can get quite a big pressure drop from the autobahn FMIC, look at getting a good quality Hybrid or something? i would also change the headers as well, i had a set of harveys headers on my car and the difference was immediatly noticable with regard to spool and how it rev'd accross the entire range, i would run a set of harveys headers and up pipe on a 2.0ltr pushing no more than 400 no problem.
Stu has my old headers now and he has stated that it has made a massive difference to his set up even running mostly std now for a while, it seems to be much quicker than before and rev's climb like never before.
My own MY99 had them on and it made a huge difference, deffo recomended mate, change them and your FMIC.
I beleive i have mentioned before that you can get quite a big pressure drop from the autobahn FMIC, look at getting a good quality Hybrid or something? i would also change the headers as well, i had a set of harveys headers on my car and the difference was immediatly noticable with regard to spool and how it rev'd accross the entire range, i would run a set of harveys headers and up pipe on a 2.0ltr pushing no more than 400 no problem.
Stu has my old headers now and he has stated that it has made a massive difference to his set up even running mostly std now for a while, it seems to be much quicker than before and rev's climb like never before.
My own MY99 had them on and it made a huge difference, deffo recomended mate, change them and your FMIC.
I've since ran 452 @1.4 bar on a 2.5 and rotated garrett setup through one without any problems whatsoever. Spool up was quick in both cases with full boost at under 3500RPM
07 September 2008, 10:33 AM
#46
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That's complete tosh! I ran, 360bhp with a VF28 with an Autobahn FMIC which incedently are excellent quality.
I've since ran 452 @1.4 bar on a 2.5 and rotated garrett setup through one without any problems whatsoever. Spool up was quick in both cases with full boost at under 3500RPM
I've since ran 452 @1.4 bar on a 2.5 and rotated garrett setup through one without any problems whatsoever. Spool up was quick in both cases with full boost at under 3500RPM
07 September 2008, 11:16 AM
#47
LOL no it was a suprise to me too.
The car had previously been run at Scooby clinic and made 330bhp.
The spec then was Standard STI 5 bottom end, 440cc injectors, Uprated fuel pump, 2.5 inch exhaust sytstem, RCMS headers, APS Cold air kit, and an Ecutek remap and a top mount IC.
The 360 run was following a rebuild with the following spec:
STI9 crank, eagle rods, wiseco high comp pistons which were 1mm oversize.
740cc injectors,Apexi Power FC ECU, Buddy Club 3 inch exhaust system, and am autobahn front mount.
Both runs were done at scooby clinic. It was also on plain old optimax.
Had I done the dyno run on the rebuilt engine without doing the first I wouldn't of believed it. But considering the difference in mods it seemed to ring true.
When I did the run it was because I wanted an RR figure before I went for the rotated garret. I then sold that engine decided to go the 2.5 route.
It's not a pub brag lol as I've had alot more power since then. Mind you the VF28 was screaming its **** off @ 1.6 bar peak
The car had previously been run at Scooby clinic and made 330bhp.
The spec then was Standard STI 5 bottom end, 440cc injectors, Uprated fuel pump, 2.5 inch exhaust sytstem, RCMS headers, APS Cold air kit, and an Ecutek remap and a top mount IC.
The 360 run was following a rebuild with the following spec:
STI9 crank, eagle rods, wiseco high comp pistons which were 1mm oversize.
740cc injectors,Apexi Power FC ECU, Buddy Club 3 inch exhaust system, and am autobahn front mount.
Both runs were done at scooby clinic. It was also on plain old optimax.
Had I done the dyno run on the rebuilt engine without doing the first I wouldn't of believed it. But considering the difference in mods it seemed to ring true.
When I did the run it was because I wanted an RR figure before I went for the rotated garret. I then sold that engine decided to go the 2.5 route.
It's not a pub brag lol as I've had alot more power since then. Mind you the VF28 was screaming its **** off @ 1.6 bar peak
08 September 2008, 07:55 AM
#48
If you look at the figures published by Hybrid and Autobhan you will see that the pressure drop on the latest Auotobahn, according to the manufacturer, is higher than Hybrid.
Around June I ordered an Autobahn FMIC as I thought I should know exactly what I was competing with. This was on the basis that Autobahn had revised their intercooler kit. It took three weeks to get delivery, maybe a little bit more and I published the pictures and information on Scoobynet with a totally unbiased comparison. The Autobahn was inferior in several areas, particularly the core and photographs were published showing exactly why.
With the small cost difference between the two intercooler kits there is no logical reason for not choosing the Hybrid.
Around June I ordered an Autobahn FMIC as I thought I should know exactly what I was competing with. This was on the basis that Autobahn had revised their intercooler kit. It took three weeks to get delivery, maybe a little bit more and I published the pictures and information on Scoobynet with a totally unbiased comparison. The Autobahn was inferior in several areas, particularly the core and photographs were published showing exactly why.
With the small cost difference between the two intercooler kits there is no logical reason for not choosing the Hybrid.
08 September 2008, 10:49 PM
#49
How can it be unbiased when you're supplying Hybrids?
Incedently I ordered from a reseller advertised on the autobahn webite at 2 O'clock Friday afternoon and it was with me for 11am on Saturday morning.
Not bad considering it came from Ireland. I'm pretty certain alot of mainland UK suppliers would struggle to get things despatched that quickly.recoomende
My experience speaks for itself and I definately have no vested interest. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending or slating one of these products.
Incedently I ordered from a reseller advertised on the autobahn webite at 2 O'clock Friday afternoon and it was with me for 11am on Saturday morning.
Not bad considering it came from Ireland. I'm pretty certain alot of mainland UK suppliers would struggle to get things despatched that quickly.recoomende
My experience speaks for itself and I definately have no vested interest. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending or slating one of these products.
09 September 2008, 09:30 AM
#50
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How can it be unbiased when you're supplying Hybrids?
Incedently I ordered from a reseller advertised on the autobahn webite at 2 O'clock Friday afternoon and it was with me for 11am on Saturday morning.
Not bad considering it came from Ireland. I'm pretty certain alot of mainland UK suppliers would struggle to get things despatched that quickly.recoomende
My experience speaks for itself and I definately have no vested interest. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending or slating one of these products.
Incedently I ordered from a reseller advertised on the autobahn webite at 2 O'clock Friday afternoon and it was with me for 11am on Saturday morning.
Not bad considering it came from Ireland. I'm pretty certain alot of mainland UK suppliers would struggle to get things despatched that quickly.recoomende
My experience speaks for itself and I definately have no vested interest. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending or slating one of these products.
Ns04
09 September 2008, 10:18 AM
#51
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my own opinion is that we should forget the pipework, the main thing to consider is any pressure drop across the core, supply empirical data from everyday use for a short length of time to back this up and it cannot be argued.
ease of fitment; while being nice, is not the primary concern to people who use their cars hard on track etc.
ease of fitment; while being nice, is not the primary concern to people who use their cars hard on track etc.
09 September 2008, 10:57 AM
#52
Daz, for info, when I had my Hybrid fitted from an independent garage that supplies neither the Autobahn or Hybrid kits, but had fitted several of both, the mechanic was adamant: the hybrid was MUCH better quality than the Autobahn in terms of the quality and ease of fitting. I'm not saying that the autobahn won't do the job, but I've spoken to too many people now who've vouched for how good the hybrid is - including retailers, users, and mappers and given that its available for such a steal, it's the one to go for IMHO
Ns04
Ns04
I've no experience with hybrid so cannot comment. What I can say is that on a VF28 I managed 330 bhp and later (following a rebuild and some additional mods) 360bhp. I also managed 452bhp @1.4bar through the same Autobahn intercooler on a rotated GT30R fed 2.5. I'll also be putting 2bar through it in the near future. So they can't be that bad. Which was my point all along. I just felt I had to defend against someone saying they are rubbish, which they are certainly not.
09 September 2008, 11:49 AM
#53
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We have fitted many of both types of the intercooler you are discussing.
My unbiassed findings are that there is little difference between the two.
They both fit roughly the same , neither is any harder than the other after doing a few.
They both perform very similar , ie the same ACT for the same boost on the same turbo , the same throttle response , and I have never had to replace either due to splitting or poor performance at levels of up to 500bhp...
My unbiassed findings are that there is little difference between the two.
They both fit roughly the same , neither is any harder than the other after doing a few.
They both perform very similar , ie the same ACT for the same boost on the same turbo , the same throttle response , and I have never had to replace either due to splitting or poor performance at levels of up to 500bhp...
09 September 2008, 12:23 PM
#54
I just felt I had to defend against someone saying they are rubbish, which they are certainly not.
Daz, you are very defensive. I don't think anyone is questioning your results. 330 from a VF28 is the top end of normal and 360 is exceptional and a great credit to you.
How can it be unbiased when you're supplying Hybrids?
Unbiased in that I went to the trouble of obtaining an Autobahn kit direct from Autobahn, was happy to look at it with an open mind and published clear photos on here to substantiate my conclusions. You do not need to believe what I say but do look at the photos and form your own conclusions.
Even then I am sure I did not slag off the Autobahn product but you can look out the post if you are bothered. I am happy that I went to the time, effort and expense to get my facts right and improve product knowledge.
If more suppliers did this, Scoobynet would be a safer environment for the unsuspecting.
I actually sold the kit for what it cost me after adding a couple of bits so net cost was the delivery to the new owner and some bits.
I bought direct from Autobahn as I wanted the latest design and not old stock from a previous design that could be in some stockists store room. Just like with clutches, it can take a long time for disrtibutors to pass on old stock after a design change.
As Autobahn are a little cheaper, IF they were as good as Hybrid does it not occur to you that I would be selling them. They also have a wide and interesting product range.
My experience speaks for itself and I definately have no vested interest. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending or slating one of these products.
If anyone wants a Hybrid kit, I have them here and you will not find many people who deal with me that do not get delivery next day. That often includes payments up to 17:00 BTW. If for the small price differential you want to use an Autobahn then that is your choice and it makes no difference to me.
I was contacted by a Tuner in Portugal a few days ago. He has an Autobahn fitted and is experiencing serious surge issues and would I help him out and supply a Hybrid core only. I suggested other causes of surge and possible remedies and that if it was bad surge, a core change on its own was unlikely to be the remedy. He told me that both Mark Aigan and Bob Rawle had advised him to change the core to one of my Hybrids so I sent him one that has now arrived out there.
Thanks Mark.
Thanks Bob. I am not sure it will cure his issues but Bob is out there later this week so I am interested in his findings.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify all that.
P.S. Martyn : Look at how the Autobahn end tanks are attached to the core and compare it with the Hybrid. Both are value for money, compared to prices from APS etc but there are clearly quality differences between Autobahn and Hybrid.
Last edited by harvey; 09 September 2008 at 12:34 PM.
09 September 2008, 01:18 PM
#55
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As Autobahn are a little cheaper, IF they were as good as Hybrid does it not occur to you that I would be selling them.
As you well know Harvey I had one of your kits on for a long while all the way up to 420 brake, so I have no axe to grind with either offering, however...
I do not think that swiping a competitor is called for and were the shoe on the other foot I can only imagine
the emails that would follow.Succeed in business through your on merit, not through running down others.
Last edited by Peanuts; 09 September 2008 at 01:24 PM.
09 September 2008, 02:05 PM
#56
Harvey,
Firstly I can see through recent threads that we have both commented on that you think I am on your case. Please let me assure you that is not the case and I must stress that I have no problems with you whatsoever
Where I am coming from on this is for people giving the Autobahn kit a slating. Personally I thought that was a little unfair as my experience of their kit has been superb with results on paper backing those findings up.
As I have said before I have absolutely no experience of Hybrid so I really cannot comment on how good they are or aren't. Had they been the same price at the time of purchase (3 years ago) I would probably have bought the hybrid kit as it was more well know back then.
The biased comments were based purely on the fact that you're selling the hybrid kits. If you were a Blitz dealer and telling us the hybrid was better than the Autobahn stuff the I would take your opinion as being purely unbiased.
Hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from and realise that this was an issue with what you were saying rather than any issues I may have with you. (which are non existant).
I think I've got what I'm trying to say across
Firstly I can see through recent threads that we have both commented on that you think I am on your case. Please let me assure you that is not the case and I must stress that I have no problems with you whatsoever
Where I am coming from on this is for people giving the Autobahn kit a slating. Personally I thought that was a little unfair as my experience of their kit has been superb with results on paper backing those findings up.
As I have said before I have absolutely no experience of Hybrid so I really cannot comment on how good they are or aren't. Had they been the same price at the time of purchase (3 years ago) I would probably have bought the hybrid kit as it was more well know back then.
The biased comments were based purely on the fact that you're selling the hybrid kits. If you were a Blitz dealer and telling us the hybrid was better than the Autobahn stuff the I would take your opinion as being purely unbiased.
Hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from and realise that this was an issue with what you were saying rather than any issues I may have with you. (which are non existant).
I think I've got what I'm trying to say across
09 September 2008, 03:04 PM
#57
Thanks for clearing that up Daz and I am glad we have no issues. I hope you realise that as I said above, I have not said the current Autobahn is rubbish.
I am happy to help you in any way I can and obviously we can have different views on the same subject as we have different experiences.
Cheers.
Peanuts :
Have you read and digested what I have said? Where does this rubbish stuff come from mate?
Where have I said the Autobahn is rubbish please?
Have you looked at the pictures from the previous thread and have you looked at the comments I made then? Just look at the photos and see for yourself exactly what I said then as I cannot remember but I did not say the Autobahn is rubbish.
While I know the one off Autobahn price as I bought one, I have no idea as to what a bulk shipment cost would be so any margin differences are completely not a consideration to me.
WTF? What e-mails?
The latest Autobahn is an improvement on the poor quality item they produced a few years ago. Poor cores, badly fitting pipework, porous welds with pin holes that gave a high pitch whistle. I know of these issues (as do many others) because I have been involved with many FMIC installations over many years.
I am able to make this statement :
because I took the trouble to examine both products, side by side and publish photographs showing exactly what I was seeing.
I am happy to help you in any way I can and obviously we can have different views on the same subject as we have different experiences.
Cheers.
Peanuts :
Have you read and digested what I have said? Where does this rubbish stuff come from mate?
Where have I said the Autobahn is rubbish please?
Have you looked at the pictures from the previous thread and have you looked at the comments I made then? Just look at the photos and see for yourself exactly what I said then as I cannot remember but I did not say the Autobahn is rubbish.
if you decided not to stock the autobahn kit based entirely on perceived quality rather than profit margins having any sway whatsoever in your decision then that is laudible.
I do not think that swiping a competitor is called for and were the shoe on the other foot I can only imagine the emails that would follow.
Succeed in business through your on merit, not through running down others.
Succeed in business through your on merit, not through running down others.
The latest Autobahn is an improvement on the poor quality item they produced a few years ago. Poor cores, badly fitting pipework, porous welds with pin holes that gave a high pitch whistle. I know of these issues (as do many others) because I have been involved with many FMIC installations over many years.
I am able to make this statement :
Look at how the Autobahn end tanks are attached to the core and compare it with the Hybrid. Both are value for money, compared to prices from APS etc but there are clearly quality differences between Autobahn and Hybrid.
09 September 2008, 04:40 PM
#58
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I have stated that I have no comparison between cooler cores, that I ran with one of your hybrids without issue and all is groovy.
My comment was based upon:
Which to a lay outsider could be perceived as a snipe at the competition, if not then hey I hold my hand up and apologise, if it was then my comment about success stands.
My comment was based upon:
Just like with clutches, it can take a long time for disrtibutors to pass on old stock after a design change.
10 September 2008, 01:52 AM
#59
Sorry you have completely lost me now.
I wanted to compare the Autobahn against the Hybrid. It would have been very unfair to Autobahn to compare one of their old offerings if they have a new product out and to ensure that I got the new product I ordered from Autobahn direct in the knowledge that if I got it from a distributor there was a risk that I would get the old design if they had been holding stock for some time.
It is as simple as that and nothing else.
Confused ?
I wanted to compare the Autobahn against the Hybrid. It would have been very unfair to Autobahn to compare one of their old offerings if they have a new product out and to ensure that I got the new product I ordered from Autobahn direct in the knowledge that if I got it from a distributor there was a risk that I would get the old design if they had been holding stock for some time.
It is as simple as that and nothing else.
Confused ?