OllyK

And they teleported the astronaughts back in to the module when it landed in the sea before anybody noticed

PeteBrant

Also, Apollo 11 astronauts left a series of mirrors on the Moon, so that scientists could direct lasers at them and extroplate the exact distance of the Moon to the Earth, (thus confirming that Newton was a whole 10 metres out in his calulations).

Presumably if we didn't go they just, like, threw them up there and just managed to land them in exactly the correct position

TelBoy

Believe me, people into this way deeper than me will tell you all about how you never saw uninterrupted footage of the command module while the rocket was on the launchpad. I promise you, there is an answer to anything and everything you can throw at this, if you're so inclined. In fact until and unless anybody independently verifies that the lunar landing craft etc really ARE sitting up there gathering dust, it's a pointless argument as it really cannot, cannot be proved indisputably either way.

PeteBrant

Well it can, really. It's only ****ing crackpots that will doubt the overwhelming evidence that man went to the moon, and well, you can't cater for that. If some mental internet case says "it's all a hoax" and every single academic says "we went there" then its pretty indisputable.

stilover

It clearly can't be, or they would have proved it by now. Looking at some 60's video of the moon landing is not proof.

Untill I see images of all the modules sat on the moon, I will always believe that the radiation from outer space means man cannot survive space travel.

TelBoy

That's what you're hoping, Pete, anyway...

Eddie1980

Having walked round the Kennedy space station, and seen the kit and scale of what they do, trust me if its a fake it would have been as cheap just to go there!

TelBoy

Expense wasn't the factor, beating the Russians was. The Americans had the rockets, but not the technology to shield the radiation or to guarantee safe lunar landings, which if they'd failed, would have been a political disaster. That's how the story goes anyway.

Eddie1980

They did fail, I seem to remember a fire on the launch pad killed 3 people on Apollo 1, no?

PeteBrant

Ahh, that's what they wanted you to believe*.







*For no adequately explained reason.

Martin2005

I love this thread, it would appear that too many SNetters have been in the sun too long.

FFS - why is everything a conspiracy to you guys? How could such a secret be kept, that would be an even greater achievement than actually landing on the moon

Please just stop it, or I'm going to start my own conspiracy theory about you lot being little green men from the planet Daily Mail

OllyK

It has been proved that the earth is not flat, doesn't stop some crackpots still claiming it is though - Flat Earth Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OllyK

Radiation wasn't the issue the CT's would have you believe - Clavius: Environment - radiation and the van allen belts

Leslie

If you have done the military tour on Cape Canaveral a couple of times,seen an Atlas rocket launch, seen a Saturn rocket being made ready in the VAB, been to the top of the VAB to see it and stood underneath it to study the giant rocket engines, studied the giant transporter to take the rockets from the VAB to the launch pad, been inside the Challenger landing simulator, seen a Challenger poised on the launch pad, met many of the NASA workers who worked on the space capsules etc., and been to parties with them, had a long chat with an astronaut who walked on the moon, watched the first moon landing as it happened, then believe me you would find it very difficult to believe a conspiracy theory.

It is a good thing that they are going to start those trips up again. It is worth remembering that one day, it may just be necessary to start a human colony on another planet. Who can say what may happen in the future. The knowledge gained may be invaluable. How many modern day "necessities" have sprung from the inventiveness of those who enabled those space trips? Not just WD40 I can assure you.

If Man had not dared to make those historical difficult expeditions of one kind or another in the past, our knowledge would be sadly lacking in many ways. I certainly don't agree with the idea of wimping out for the reasons quoted above. It is part of Man's make up to attempt new achievements and gain new knowledge.

Incidentally there was indeed a fire in a capsule and three astronauts were killed. I was told by NASA personnel that there was an electrical short circuit onboard, The astronauts were bolted inside the capsule and the 100% oxygen rich atmosphere in the capsule made it impossible to get the capsule open in time since the fire was so rapidly deployed. Dreadful tragedy.

Les

Martin2005

Spot on Les

TelBoy

Olly that's based on modern research, not what was widely known or accepted in the mid 1960s. You have to appreciate the enormous pressure there was to meet Kennedy's deadline, he effectively laid down the gauntlet which would decide who was the world's leading superpower. I have no idea if the thing was or wasn't faked, but i can certainly understand why they'd do that if they knew they weren't sufficiently prepared at the time.

angrynorth

No I can't, but I would have a much easier time disproving the crap that the conspiracy theorists spout out.

Can you prove they didn't go to the moon?

Yes, I have seen the pictures, and anyone who knows even the slightest bit about photography and lighting could easily refute any of the crackpots claims about them being faked also.

I see your "gibbon" and I raise you "simpleton".

angrynorth

Do you also believe the ISS is not real then?

TelBoy

We're not comparing something 215 miles above the Earth with a lunar mission are we??

Abdabz

LOL. My dad is quite old, from the north and sometimes angry. He watched the original pics back in the day. He too gets cross with me even implying he and his generation have been royally duped for 40+ years He, like you, believes it because he has seen it There the simliarity ends, because he doesnt call me names for having a differing opinion

So, my possible paternal patriarch, I will refute your "simpleton" and proclaim you to be a "mug"

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

If the human race outlives the Sun, then during the Suns final phase there will be a period where Earth will be too hot and Mars will be colonised. Then once Mars gets too hot we'd be off to another solar System.

According to Al Gore this will start happenning a week on Thursday. Oh no wait a minute, climate change can be controlled by humans...

OllyK

Cobblers. Have you actually read it? The bits where NASA rans tests at the time to verify if their theories on sheilding where correct? How most of the radiation is particulate and not wave and can be stopped by little more than a sheet of polythene? You have read all that haven't you?

Indeed which meant they were being so closely scrutinised by the rest of the world it would have been impossible to actually pull it off.

It wasn't. Find a CT site, they are generally full of "points" will little or not citation, science or backup, it's speculation. Then look at some of the sites countering the CT where they go in to great detail as to why the CT is wrong. I have yet to see a convincing CT argument on anything to do with the moon landings being faked, if you can cite something that's more than a paragraph of unsubstantiated speculation, I'd love to see it.

And to have been caught cheating would have been worse still, and it would have leaked, no government is that watertight.

angrynorth

Well, given that you are from St Helens where they still point at aeroplanes with mouths agape; I understand your hesitance to believe that something which seemed like an impossible stretch of technology could have happened 40 years ago.

I'm quite happy to appear to be a "mug" to you, because until you can conclusively disprove the moon landings or at least offer a single structured argument against it then you will remain a crackpot "simpleton" in my mind.

PS I'm not your Dad!

TelBoy

Oh God i'd forgotten what it was like to have a fekkin point by point OllyK lecture!! Yes, i've read it, as far as i'm able to understand the science. I maintain, and you can spend time researching it if you want, that NASA were extremely worried about the effects of the radiation, and uncertain whether they would have adequate protection. I can totally see why the politicians wouldn't have been willing to take a chance. The world scrutiny "fact" is merely YOUR opinion. It really is. Just YOUR opinion. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been unlikely or extremely difficult, but impossible? Nah, nothing's impossible, not when the stakes are high enough. But as i said on my opening post funnily enough, i concede that human integrity is in my opinion the single most effective rebuttal to the conspiracists' story.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I remember watching a documentry where they analysed the astronauts helmets and saw particle sized holes through the structure. Also reports of 'flashes' infront of the astronauts eyes which were particles travelling through the eyeball. Can't remember if it was reported below or past the belt though?

PeteBrant

Well, human integrity and the fact that we have footage, photos, recordings, rocks, astronauts testimony and the technological advances as a direct result of the Moon landings, yeah

TelBoy

Now you know FULL well that any of those could be fabricated, well apart from the technological advances which of course we'd have benefitted from in any case. I forget what the rocks story is. Isn't it that they used some from a meteorite which the American secret services got hold of, and that none has ever been released for official scrutiny? Something like that anyway, i forget now.

Leslie

I find it hard to understand why some have to even insinuate that it was all a fake. How can you sensibly or even fairly say that. What is there in our modern technology which proves that they did not achieve that incredible goal? What is the point of making such accusations?

If there was some kind of evidence which pointed positively to some kind of a scam then it might be understandable, but there isn't so i personally think it is only fair to applaud their achievement unless something to the contrary turned up.

Les

PeteBrant

I'm not quite sure how you fabricate moon rock and Technological advances.


Nevertherless... So could Princess Dianas Funeral, So could the assasination of JFK, so could a million an done other earth shattering events, but I do not for one second think that they have been fabricated.

Why?

Occams Razor.

There is no logic to going to the simple enourmous lengths they would have needed to to fool the world that they landed on the moon. Not once, but *six* times

OllyK

Seek and ye shall find - Clavius: Environment - rocks

Also have a read about the un-manned Russian space probes sent to the moon on the same page!