serious problem with scoobynet software
04 February 2002, 03:45 PM
#32
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agree with dsmith on that one.
Regarding copyright I would like to know where the peron who posted that information got it from, because I have checked the statutes on intellectual property and I see nothing that so clearly states what has been said.
To my knowledge ownership of copyright always resides with the author of the work, there are irregularities introduced in the form of employment agreements, and different types of rights such as rights to the lyrics of a song, or the music, or rights to the paraphrasing of someone elses speach or translation into another language.
Have never heard of someone owning copyright purely by receiving a letter. Sounds like utter nonsense to me.
Regarding copyright I would like to know where the peron who posted that information got it from, because I have checked the statutes on intellectual property and I see nothing that so clearly states what has been said.
To my knowledge ownership of copyright always resides with the author of the work, there are irregularities introduced in the form of employment agreements, and different types of rights such as rights to the lyrics of a song, or the music, or rights to the paraphrasing of someone elses speach or translation into another language.
Have never heard of someone owning copyright purely by receiving a letter. Sounds like utter nonsense to me.
04 February 2002, 03:50 PM
#33
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Carl,
Agreed, but suggesting that a party "can't" do something is only likely to inflame a bad situation.
Just what is it with scoobynet these days? Loads of people taking offence, leaving etc... ???
Agreed, but suggesting that a party "can't" do something is only likely to inflame a bad situation.
Just what is it with scoobynet these days? Loads of people taking offence, leaving etc... ???
05 February 2002, 11:51 AM
#35
Moray
Apologies for not replying sooner, I only got back to the UK today.
This is important..
If I have said something that you have taken to accuse you of dis-honesty, I assure you it would not have been meant that way. As for clearing your name, I have absoutely no reason to think you need to. Everyone (including me) has enough respect for you that this kind of thing is just not necessary.
I'm saddened that it has come to this, as we've known each other a while. Once again, my offer still stands to discuss this offline / over a beer. I do think that it would be better left off-line though rather than dragging everyone else into it.
I look forward to more positive conversations in the future.
All the very best
Simon
Apologies for not replying sooner, I only got back to the UK today.
This is important..
If I have said something that you have taken to accuse you of dis-honesty, I assure you it would not have been meant that way. As for clearing your name, I have absoutely no reason to think you need to. Everyone (including me) has enough respect for you that this kind of thing is just not necessary.
I'm saddened that it has come to this, as we've known each other a while. Once again, my offer still stands to discuss this offline / over a beer. I do think that it would be better left off-line though rather than dragging everyone else into it.
I look forward to more positive conversations in the future.
All the very best
Simon
20 February 2002, 06:15 PM
#36
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Simon,
You say "If I have said something that you have taken to accuse you of dis-honesty, I assure you it would not have been meant that way."
I cannot see in what other way: "Yet you have continually refused to be honest and up-front with me about the questions I was asking you." can be interpretted..
So let me ask again:
You have publically accused me of dishonesty and mis-representation. You have offered no retraction or apology, instead dismissing it as missinterpretation on my part. The only way I can defend myself from your accusations to is to publically post the content of the emails you have refered to. Can I now assume that you have no reasonable objection to me doing this because it will simply prove that I have missinterpretted your emails?
Moray
bbs.22b.com
You say "If I have said something that you have taken to accuse you of dis-honesty, I assure you it would not have been meant that way."
I cannot see in what other way: "Yet you have continually refused to be honest and up-front with me about the questions I was asking you." can be interpretted..
So let me ask again:
You have publically accused me of dishonesty and mis-representation. You have offered no retraction or apology, instead dismissing it as missinterpretation on my part. The only way I can defend myself from your accusations to is to publically post the content of the emails you have refered to. Can I now assume that you have no reasonable objection to me doing this because it will simply prove that I have missinterpretted your emails?
Moray
bbs.22b.com
21 February 2002, 01:45 AM
#37
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Moray,
Just been in chat, so already vented my spleen ... *MUCH* calmer now.
Since you insist on having this private conversation (!) out in the open ... can you repeat exactly what the security issues are with the Scoobynet software ?
Because if I correctly understand it, you say there is a serious issue, right ?
Well... spill your beans, I'm holding my breath. I know **** about cars, but I do know a thing or two about software.
If you can crack scoobynet security, I'm prepared to hire you for 100.000 UKP a year BTW. And before anyone gets the wrong idea... I'm not holding my wallet at the ready.
Oh, and some big internet SQL server companies will be *very* intrested in what you will have to say !
Methinks you owe SDB an *serious* apology, not the other way round. It's not his fault you fail to grasp the concept of cookies, right ?
Anyway, take this **** to email (as has been suggested 555 times (22B in hex, scary
) now), I personally have enough of people trying to ruin Scoobynet, and if you really want a fight and push 22B.com... let's rock...
You found it necessary to bump this thread for the 10th time now ... what exactly is your accusation ?
And don't you dare to tell me to stay out ... you posted it on a public forum, so deal with it.
As long standing as your reputation on Scoobynet was, you are now acting like a little pr1ck. Quite reveiling.
Theo
*edited because of drunk speeling
[Edited by EvilBevel - 2/21/2002 2:02:00 AM]
Just been in chat, so already vented my spleen ... *MUCH* calmer now.
Since you insist on having this private conversation (!) out in the open ... can you repeat exactly what the security issues are with the Scoobynet software ?
Because if I correctly understand it, you say there is a serious issue, right ?
Well... spill your beans, I'm holding my breath. I know **** about cars, but I do know a thing or two about software.
If you can crack scoobynet security, I'm prepared to hire you for 100.000 UKP a year BTW. And before anyone gets the wrong idea... I'm not holding my wallet at the ready.
Oh, and some big internet SQL server companies will be *very* intrested in what you will have to say !
Methinks you owe SDB an *serious* apology, not the other way round. It's not his fault you fail to grasp the concept of cookies, right ?
Anyway, take this **** to email (as has been suggested 555 times (22B in hex, scary
) now), I personally have enough of people trying to ruin Scoobynet, and if you really want a fight and push 22B.com... let's rock...You found it necessary to bump this thread for the 10th time now ... what exactly is your accusation ?
And don't you dare to tell me to stay out ... you posted it on a public forum, so deal with it.
As long standing as your reputation on Scoobynet was, you are now acting like a little pr1ck. Quite reveiling.
Theo
*edited because of drunk speeling
[Edited by EvilBevel - 2/21/2002 2:02:00 AM]
21 February 2002, 08:38 AM
#39
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Im posting 1 reply to this thread thats it, as I dont really think it should be stirred up by anyone (other than Simon and Moray, with possibly a little input from Adam).
I worked in a large organisation and we regularly (probably more than once every working day) had incidents where people had fallen out via email.
Firstly its VERY easy to get the wrong impression when reading email as its often not punctuated as well as written english (much like this board for instance).
Secondly there is no tone or inflection, and regional differences are not picked up on, so they are taken literally.
The solution is always the same, use the phone to resolve issues such as this as early as possible (or face to face if close by). It avoids heated emails where people write things that they probably wouldnt say down the phone or to someones face.
So, I suggest Moray and Simon you have a quick chat on the phone, just calm it down, and then go back to day 1, and discuss the real issue.
So whos going to be the first to find that olive branch and make the call.........?
Id just like to add that Ive met Moray and have spoken to Simon via email a number of times, you both seem to be genuine and decent blokes. It would be a sad loss if you couldn't resolve this in an amicable way.
Let us know when you kiss and make up
robski
I worked in a large organisation and we regularly (probably more than once every working day) had incidents where people had fallen out via email.
Firstly its VERY easy to get the wrong impression when reading email as its often not punctuated as well as written english (much like this board for instance).
Secondly there is no tone or inflection, and regional differences are not picked up on, so they are taken literally.
The solution is always the same, use the phone to resolve issues such as this as early as possible (or face to face if close by). It avoids heated emails where people write things that they probably wouldnt say down the phone or to someones face.
So, I suggest Moray and Simon you have a quick chat on the phone, just calm it down, and then go back to day 1, and discuss the real issue.
So whos going to be the first to find that olive branch and make the call.........?
Id just like to add that Ive met Moray and have spoken to Simon via email a number of times, you both seem to be genuine and decent blokes. It would be a sad loss if you couldn't resolve this in an amicable way.
Let us know when you kiss and make up
robski
21 February 2002, 12:33 PM
#40
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Just a few questions:
1) Why did webmaster remove MM's moderator privelidges?
2) Why didn't webmaster reinstate them after the issue was cleared up?
3)Why does the webmaster not give a clear and concise reason for not wanting Moray as a moderator for Scoobynet? I can't see where he has failed.
It's embarrasing to deny MM the respect and thanks that he deserves for the unbiased and committed support he gave Scoobynet over the past few years!
Don't mean to stir this sour pot of soup, but it saddens me to see a respected member of the cummunity brought into disrepute. However, if this is a personal issue then I totally understand and I shall remove my prying eyes from this topic.
Cheers
Cem
1) Why did webmaster remove MM's moderator privelidges?
2) Why didn't webmaster reinstate them after the issue was cleared up?
3)Why does the webmaster not give a clear and concise reason for not wanting Moray as a moderator for Scoobynet? I can't see where he has failed.
It's embarrasing to deny MM the respect and thanks that he deserves for the unbiased and committed support he gave Scoobynet over the past few years!
Don't mean to stir this sour pot of soup, but it saddens me to see a respected member of the cummunity brought into disrepute. However, if this is a personal issue then I totally understand and I shall remove my prying eyes from this topic.
Cheers
Cem
02 April 2002, 02:53 PM
#41
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Seems logical to me. Jilted lovers (particularly those in the public eye) have to take out injunctions to avoid their former lovers from publishing the contents of love letters sent to them (ISTR there was a case of Lord & Lady somebody that went like this). If the copyright belonged to the originator, the issue would never arise.
I've found a reference at http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/timeline.html. It applies to the USA, but anyway the key bit is this:
"Without the permission of the owner of the letters" implies that the recipient to whom the letter was addressed has the copyright. IMHO of course
[Edited by carl - 2/4/2002 3:58:48 PM]
I've found a reference at http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/timeline.html. It applies to the USA, but anyway the key bit is this:
1841: Folsom v. Marsh
This case is the source of the fair use doctrine in the United States. At issue was use of George Washington's private letters in the creation of a fictionalized biography of the President without the permission of the owner of the letters.
This case is the source of the fair use doctrine in the United States. At issue was use of George Washington's private letters in the creation of a fictionalized biography of the President without the permission of the owner of the letters.
[Edited by carl - 2/4/2002 3:58:48 PM]
02 April 2002, 05:30 PM
#42
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Not meaning to be pedantic, but that applies to the USA, and I am certain tere are arguments which state that although possession is with the recipient, the owner of the letters is still the person who paid for the ink, paper and envelope.
Owner of the copyright still lies with the person who used their skill labour and judgement to create the work, in this case the author.
BTW their is copyright in anywork which fulfills the criteria of requiring substancial skill labour and judgement to create it.
It starts to become difficult whern you ask people to define what a "work" is, what skill labour and judgement is, what creating it is etc. There is also the "de minimus" rule which excludes a line on a peace of paper from attracting copyright, even though a combination of lines forming a drawing still can.
Lecture over, sorry. am still at work so lawyer mode always takes over.
[Edited by Adam M - 2/5/2002 12:21:31 PM]
Owner of the copyright still lies with the person who used their skill labour and judgement to create the work, in this case the author.
BTW their is copyright in anywork which fulfills the criteria of requiring substancial skill labour and judgement to create it.
It starts to become difficult whern you ask people to define what a "work" is, what skill labour and judgement is, what creating it is etc. There is also the "de minimus" rule which excludes a line on a peace of paper from attracting copyright, even though a combination of lines forming a drawing still can.
Lecture over, sorry. am still at work so lawyer mode always takes over.
[Edited by Adam M - 2/5/2002 12:21:31 PM]
02 April 2002, 08:16 PM
#43
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Originally posted by Adam M:
But is it art?
(If you're smart, you can sell a blank canvas these days)
BTW -- I now think you're right. At http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/copyrigh.htm I also found this:
So as there doesn't appear to be a 'special rule' for letters, I guess we would treat paper letters and e-mails the same way.
[Edited by carl - 2/4/2002 9:22:16 PM]
There is also teh "de minimus" rule which excludes a line on a peace of paper from attracting copyright
(If you're smart, you can sell a blank canvas these days)
BTW -- I now think you're right. At http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/copyrigh.htm I also found this:
For example, if I purchase an original letter written by President Clinton, I only own that physical manifestation of the letter, and I do not necessarily own the copyrights to its content. Unless otherwise stated, Clinton retains the copyrights to the letter's contents.
[Edited by carl - 2/4/2002 9:22:16 PM]
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