rbaz

iTrader: (1)

PMSL

luckham

For someone who purports to be intelligent, I am amazed that you completely failed to grasp the context of this thread.

It was supposed to be humorous..

Not particularly funny humour, [sorry bushiwarrior ], but humour nevertheless.

So please get off your sanctimonious high horse and stop being such a miserable b4stard..

This is a Subaru forum and the usual decorum is to show at least a modicum of respect for the marque and it’s owners.

Coming on here and strutting around telling us how much better your 996 is compared to the ricer cr4p that we drive and then telling us that you think we’re all a bunch of w4nkers isn’t going to win you any friends on here or do you any favours..

So how’s about being a good chap and either run along or play nice eh..

Peace..

willswrx

Sorry to bear bad news, but short of guarding underneath, harnesses and roll cage (which any car woud need for safety) a standard road going impreza is pretty effective on stage.-more so than most. Seen this done on more than one occasion to very good effect.

So please, before you force your opinions, of what you believe to be reality, to a large and potentially knowledgable audience, try doing some research.

As far as the rest of your comments go, get a life.
Some people understand what owning a subaru is all about, others clearly don't. Perhaps your time would be better spent elsewhere. Perhaps you could try the lonely hearts - your're clearly not 'getting any'

willswrx

28. if you had an STi, the first thing to go would be the wing

Don't think so.

America maybe

rickya

iTrader: (18)

Funny thread, ruined by irrelevant crap about others cars & outdated blah blah ...

WRX-DAN

LOL! I took the orignal post as a bit of humour, some very serious people on here

NACRO

Thanks for the input, I haven't 'purported to be intelligent' and neither have I shown disrespect for the Subaru marque. The exact opposite in fact.

Neither have I called you 'w4nkers' or said you drive 'ricer crap'.

Surely you need to get your facts straight before throwing accusations around? Or would the facts get in the way of your tepid sound bite spin?

Also the person who think a standard Impreza would be 'effective on stage' is living in an alternate reality.

Paul3446

A quick question:

If an MX5 and an Impreza go round the same corner, at the same speed and the MX5 spins off into a field, which car is handling better?

NACRO

The MX5 but the owner doesn't know how to drive within his or the cars limits.

Paul3446

I'm sorry, but you cannot say that handling and grip are unrelated, although they are differrent to a certain extent, the car that goes around the same corner quicker, is handling better!

NACRO

That's where our opinions differ. I'm of the opinion that just because something can physically go round a corner faster it doesn't necessarily handle better. That's also the opinion of every expert I've ever read or questioned on the subject.

Perhaps the received wisdom is incorrect?

Paul3446

As I said the two are different, but not unrelated.

Thanks for your sarcasm though!

Mark Mac

Very amusing thread. I cant believe one guy Nacro has held center stage and
pressed everyones buttons for so long.
You must take your hat off to him for that.
Well done.........

Turbo2

Porsche realised in the 70's that they needed big fat tyres to keep their 930 Turbo on the straight and narrow with all that weight at the back. They intelligently took this a stage further with the 4WD system of the 964 through to today's 997. I have been in them: they GRIP brilliantly, but that doesn't mean your car with 62% of the weight on the back axle (of which a good deal is behind it) HANDLES brilliantly. No other supercar manufacturer has used the rear engined format for decades (it went out 15 years ago with the little-sold Renault A610 I think). That tells us all something.

Paul3446

Perhaps this is down to interpretation of the word handling.

I believe what you are talking about are handling characteristics, which are subjective, some people may prefer oversteer, others understeer, some cars may give more feel to the driver. But I maintain that if two cars take the same corner at the same speed and ones spins off, then the other car is handling that corner better.

NACRO

It's gripping better and able to maintain a higher speed.

It isn't necessarily handling better.

No sarcasm intended but perhaps you define it differently to the rest of the world. Entirely your prerogative.

Paul3446

But how can a car that's just crashed be "handling better" than one that hasn't?

NACRO

Maybe the driver was having much more enjoyment right up to the point they binned it?

Paul3446

And that relates to handling how?

NACRO

Please go and some reading.

You are confusing 'roadholding' ability and handling in my opinion.

Paul3446

I can assure you I am not confused, I think you are mistaking driving enjoyment for handling. You appear to believe that if you're having fun while driving, then your car is handling well.

As I said earlier, you are talking about handling characteristics, not how well a car is handling. This is obvious from your comment that the MX5 driver was having more fun until he crashed, which is completely irrelevant!

My personal experience means that I don't have to "do some reading" to understand these things.

But again, your sarcasm is most welcome.

NACRO

I don't believe you understand at all and I haven't the inclination to walk you through it. If you prefer to continue being wrong then that's your choice. It really isn't a problem for me.

We can all benefit from learning more, I'll be doing yet more as it seems like the rain has set in for the day.

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Rain does that mean the Porker stays in then

NACRO

Yes, as I had it valeted yesterday and I don't want it to get dirty. I'll probably just go and look at it for a while

gt5500

Lets clear something up, the word handling is pretty simple, it is used to describe a cars ability to handle being driven either in a straight line or round a corner. Now if a car can get round a corner faster then another car it has handled the corner better therefore it has better handling, it seems that not only do you not understand handling but you haven't even taken the time to think what is meant by the word handling. If car A can take the corner at 30mph without stepping out or understeering and car B can do the same at 50mph then clearly car B handled the corner better. You're right though handling and grip are not the same thing, handling is the result of grip and chassis dynamics added together. A Ford Mustang with massive rear tyres may have amazing grip but has the bodycontrol of an ocean liner therefore its handling is compromised, an MX5 has excellent weight distribution but lacks grip therefore when pushed hard its handling will be compromised.

Lemster

You can give a 2CV the biggest tyres available and therefore more grip, but the handling will still be appalling!

escott

iTrader: (1)

Grip has an important bearing on handling, but it is not true to say that the car which grips the best is the best handling. For an example, take most 4WD Audis (probably excluding the RS4), generally they grip very well but don't handle great because they understeer, partly due to having the engine set so far forward.

An important part of handling is how a car behaves once it starts to lose grip - most enthusiastic drivers prefer a car which is neutral or loses grip at the back tyres first - i.e. oversteers. A car which does this predictably, progressively and consistently allows the driver more control, and would generally be regarded as a decent handling car.

Older MX5's are a good example of this, as is a properly sorted Impreza - only difference is that the Subaru tends to display these characteristics at a higher speed, due to having more grip.

Lemster

This can happen at any speed, just depends on the severity of the bend and how you approach it. I had understeer today on a sharp bend, but that was due to my lapse of concentration. Also had a little lift off oversteer and a mild bend - just depends on how you drive the car and how you unsettle it.

But then again it still handled better than my old Alfa 145, and at a greater velocity!!

Paul3446

I agree with GT5500!

scoobian

I think its time this thread died