gutless MY00's
07 February 2002, 11:40 PM
#125
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PS agree with Otis. What did you mean Jim? Did you mean to not leave the keys in the ignition or the door when doing the swap? Or did you mean we should leave them in there?
Sorry for my poor English
!JIM
02 March 2002, 10:23 PM
#126
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Sorry for the delay.
My car is a import from Holland.
Wrexy,I am sure the car does not suffer from hesitation as others do.But I think the boost control could be better.I have changed the backbox and downpipe,so it probably overboosts.
ski
[Edited by ski - 2/3/2002 10:31:20 PM]
My car is a import from Holland.
Wrexy,I am sure the car does not suffer from hesitation as others do.But I think the boost control could be better.I have changed the backbox and downpipe,so it probably overboosts.
ski
[Edited by ski - 2/3/2002 10:31:20 PM]
06 March 2002, 03:18 AM
#127
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Here is a dyno run comparing the ae801 and ae802 ecus back to back on the same car with no mods.
http://www.steve.ukmail.org/car/ecuver.gif
ae800 and ae801 have the same maps, so will have essentially the same performance, though the code is slightly different. ae801 & 802 have the same code version, but very different maps. When I get time, I'll go over this in more detail.
Also, thanks to Richard Dowsett (who posted me his ECU!) I can now confirm that an ae782 is identical (apart from the bracket) to an ae802. Maps are identical, as are connections.
Cheers
Steve
P.S. PE can now invisibly remap between these map versions for those of you having difficulty finding an older (better performing) ECU.
http://www.steve.ukmail.org/car/ecuver.gif
ae800 and ae801 have the same maps, so will have essentially the same performance, though the code is slightly different. ae801 & 802 have the same code version, but very different maps. When I get time, I'll go over this in more detail.
Also, thanks to Richard Dowsett (who posted me his ECU!) I can now confirm that an ae782 is identical (apart from the bracket) to an ae802. Maps are identical, as are connections.
Cheers
Steve
P.S. PE can now invisibly remap between these map versions for those of you having difficulty finding an older (better performing) ECU.
06 March 2002, 09:42 AM
#128
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Cheers Stephen.
Especially for finding out that the 782 and 802 have identical maps. Also thanks to Richard for sending you his ECU.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
[Edited by WREXY - 3/6/2002 9:44:08 AM]
Especially for finding out that the 782 and 802 have identical maps. Also thanks to Richard for sending you his ECU.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
[Edited by WREXY - 3/6/2002 9:44:08 AM]
06 March 2002, 09:58 AM
#129
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Just to add my small contribution after doing some serious ECU swapping over the weekend.
My car is a Sept 00 with the green AE802 ECU which was suffering from poor on-boost performance and throttle response. Luckily I also have a Link ECU that was fitted and mapped at the weekend (but that's another story ). After fitting the Link we swapped the standard green ECU back into the car to get a "before" and "after" comparison, and then fitted a black ECU after that to see what difference it made.
Found the black ECU to be much better than the standard green ECU - throttle response was much improved and the car pulled a lot better when on boost. Particularly noticeable at motorway speeds - acceleration from 70 was a lot quicker and the car simply seemed more eager
So the black ECU (on my car anyway) definitley gets the thumbs up.
Of course, I don't have any vested interest either way as I'm now running with my Link ECU, but if I didn't I'd be looking for a black label ECU to sort me out!
For reference my car has ITG panel fliter, Scorpion d/p, Janspeed centre and Magnex b/b and is run and mapped on 100% SUL
My car is a Sept 00 with the green AE802 ECU which was suffering from poor on-boost performance and throttle response. Luckily I also have a Link ECU that was fitted and mapped at the weekend (but that's another story
). After fitting the Link we swapped the standard green ECU back into the car to get a "before" and "after" comparison, and then fitted a black ECU after that to see what difference it made. Found the black ECU to be much better than the standard green ECU - throttle response was much improved and the car pulled a lot better when on boost. Particularly noticeable at motorway speeds - acceleration from 70 was a lot quicker and the car simply seemed more eager
So the black ECU (on my car anyway) definitley gets the thumbs up.
Of course, I don't have any vested interest either way as I'm now running with my Link ECU, but if I didn't I'd be looking for a black label ECU to sort me out!
For reference my car has ITG panel fliter, Scorpion d/p, Janspeed centre and Magnex b/b and is run and mapped on 100% SUL
06 March 2002, 10:26 AM
#130
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So whats the change in driving between the black ecu and the Link ecu then 
Is it nearly £1.5 grands worth better?! (Assuming you had the full works done of course)
Is it nearly £1.5 grands worth better?!
(Assuming you had the full works done of course)
06 March 2002, 10:42 AM
#131
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>acceleration from 70 was a lot quicker and the car
>simply seemed more eager
>
On the '802, they have attempted progressive boost control. Previous versions attempted the same boost for a given RPM, regardless of load.
I.e. as you climb up the load zones on the boost maps, the ECU increases desired boost pressure. With the earlier ECU versions, if you hold the car at part throttle, you hear a lot of air being recirculated by the dump valve (easy to hear on induction modded cars). On the newer ecu, you don't. This explains why the car feels less eager - the turbo needs to spool up when you plant it, rather than being there already.
Cheers
Steve
>simply seemed more eager
>
On the '802, they have attempted progressive boost control. Previous versions attempted the same boost for a given RPM, regardless of load.
I.e. as you climb up the load zones on the boost maps, the ECU increases desired boost pressure. With the earlier ECU versions, if you hold the car at part throttle, you hear a lot of air being recirculated by the dump valve (easy to hear on induction modded cars). On the newer ecu, you don't. This explains why the car feels less eager - the turbo needs to spool up when you plant it, rather than being there already.
Cheers
Steve
06 March 2002, 10:55 AM
#132
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Quite a substantial difference!
Link ECU and Lambda Link/guages etc came with the car, but hadn't been fitted/mapped for it, so I didn't fork out £1.5k for it
Saying that, the car feels as if it's had a rocket strapped under it now - much more furious and "ready to go" at the slightest increase in throttle pressure.
Strangely I've also noticed what seems to be am improvement in fuel economy since getting it fitted. I've got nearly 230 miles out of this tank since Sunday - and that was with a lot of hard driving whilst mapping the car on Sunday. Previously I'd struggle to get more than 215 miles even driving it like a granny Also the Lambda Link readings are more in-line with the guide underneath the lights. Previously with the green ECU, anything more than slight throttle pressure would give you the full green lights on the Lambda Link.
Only down points are poor starting - you need to use the accelerator to stop it stalling when you first fire it up, and it's a bit less refined in stop start traffic - more drivetrain shunt.
But other than that I'm really happy with it
Link ECU and Lambda Link/guages etc came with the car, but hadn't been fitted/mapped for it, so I didn't fork out £1.5k for it
Saying that, the car feels as if it's had a rocket strapped under it now - much more furious and "ready to go" at the slightest increase in throttle pressure.
Strangely I've also noticed what seems to be am improvement in fuel economy since getting it fitted. I've got nearly 230 miles out of this tank since Sunday - and that was with a lot of hard driving whilst mapping the car on Sunday. Previously I'd struggle to get more than 215 miles even driving it like a granny
Also the Lambda Link readings are more in-line with the guide underneath the lights. Previously with the green ECU, anything more than slight throttle pressure would give you the full green lights on the Lambda Link. Only down points are poor starting - you need to use the accelerator to stop it stalling when you first fire it up, and it's a bit less refined in stop start traffic - more drivetrain shunt.
But other than that I'm really happy with it
06 March 2002, 11:02 AM
#133
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>Only down points are poor starting - you need to use the >accelerator to stop it stalling when you first fire it
>up, and it's a bit less refined in stop start traffic -
>more drivetrain shunt.
>
The standard ecu has 16 load zones for ignition and fuelling.
I think a Link has 6, but I'm sure someone will confirm.
How large are the maps for boost control ?
Steve
>up, and it's a bit less refined in stop start traffic -
>more drivetrain shunt.
>
The standard ecu has 16 load zones for ignition and fuelling.
I think a Link has 6, but I'm sure someone will confirm.
How large are the maps for boost control ?
Steve
06 March 2002, 11:24 AM
#134
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From the Link manual: 6 boost based load rows for fuel and ignition. Fuel, ignition and boost targets are every 500 RPM but use interpolation. The whole map only appears to be 240 bytes.
06 March 2002, 11:35 AM
#135
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Standard ecu is 16x16 fuel & ign map with interpolation. 8x8 for boost control.
Row and column intervals on the maps can, but don't have to be, equally spaced, since there are axis scaling maps too. This means you can put the accuracy where you need it.
E.g. you could for example have zones at 500, 750, 900, 1200, 2000 RPM etc. Probably not as relevant for fuel and ignition, but very useful for boost control, where you need all the resolution around where the turbo is coming on boost.
Row and column intervals on the maps can, but don't have to be, equally spaced, since there are axis scaling maps too. This means you can put the accuracy where you need it.
E.g. you could for example have zones at 500, 750, 900, 1200, 2000 RPM etc. Probably not as relevant for fuel and ignition, but very useful for boost control, where you need all the resolution around where the turbo is coming on boost.
06 March 2002, 11:46 AM
#136
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Sounds made for the job
The idea about variable RPM boost zones is one I have been working on for the EBC - glad to see Subaru copied my idea Put the resolution where it is needed.
Steve YHM
The idea about variable RPM boost zones is one I have been working on for the EBC - glad to see Subaru copied my idea
Put the resolution where it is needed.Steve YHM
06 March 2002, 11:55 AM
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Are you/PE planning to sell the monitoring software with the remapping software for a DIY approach?
How much?
Will there be a service to reprogram a MY00 ECU with a MY99 801 map since the code is the same? Can an 802 be made into an 800?
How much?
Will there be a service to reprogram a MY00 ECU with a MY99 801 map since the code is the same? Can an 802 be made into an 800?
06 March 2002, 12:27 PM
#138
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> Are you/PE planning to sell the monitoring software with the
> remapping software for a DIY approach?
>
Yes. The company is EcuTek - we produce the technology to remp ECUs. Our first and only trade customer is Power Engineering initially.
>Will there be a service to reprogram a MY00 ECU with a MY99 801
>map since the code is the same?
>
Yes. Ready now. Ring PE.
>Can an 802 be made into an 800?
>
Yes. Ready now.
Better finish that web site...
Cheers
Steve
> remapping software for a DIY approach?
>
Yes. The company is EcuTek - we produce the technology to remp ECUs. Our first and only trade customer is Power Engineering initially.
>Will there be a service to reprogram a MY00 ECU with a MY99 801
>map since the code is the same?
>
Yes. Ready now. Ring PE.
>Can an 802 be made into an 800?
>
Yes. Ready now.
Better finish that web site...
Cheers
Steve
06 March 2002, 01:24 PM
#141
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all great info.
has anyone,who has changed from a green to an earlier ECU found it affected more by cold ambient temp?I have noticed that some days I can peak at 14psi and other days,or if the temp drops I can see a peak of 17psi.held boost value is much the same as the green ae802 but the ae800 holds smoother and longer,but I found with the 802 ECU that the peak only changed from summer to winter.off boost and over 4500rpm the car is still so much stronger I will not be swapping back.the Dawes has cured the boost peaks though .
when is the next r/r day in scotland?,I would really like to see how john,chris's and my car compare to each other .I actually think with a standard turbo and top mount,john's is the car to beat,for us scots anyway.
has anyone,who has changed from a green to an earlier ECU found it affected more by cold ambient temp?I have noticed that some days I can peak at 14psi and other days,or if the temp drops I can see a peak of 17psi.held boost value is much the same as the green ae802 but the ae800 holds smoother and longer,but I found with the 802 ECU that the peak only changed from summer to winter.off boost and over 4500rpm the car is still so much stronger I will not be swapping back.the Dawes has cured the boost peaks though
. when is the next r/r day in scotland?,I would really like to see how john,chris's and my car compare to each other
.I actually think with a standard turbo and top mount,john's is the car to beat,for us scots anyway.
06 March 2002, 01:31 PM
#143
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Are the new Star figures going to be comparable with the old ones? Presumably for PAW, but the flywheel figures are going to EVEN WORSE or is that just to hammer down black Evos and short geared imports?
06 March 2002, 01:41 PM
#144
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spoke to jim last week and he reckons that although he has cut the run time,results will stay consistent.I only like r/r days for comparison figures for that day,with UK cars.
06 March 2002, 02:13 PM
#145
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when is the next r/r day in scotland?,I would really like to see how john,chris's and my car compare to each other .I actually think with a standard turbo and top mount,john's is the car to beat,for us scots anyway.
.I actually think with a standard turbo and top mount,john's is the car to beat,for us scots anyway.
To be honest, I'm not really bothered about if my result is better than johns as I wanted the car mapped for reliability rather than out and out power. Unless I fire it right up and blow you all away on the day (along with my turbo/intercooler/block etc)
Also, we can hopefully do some meaningful comparisons at the SIDC trackday a week on Sunday? Although I'm not chasing t-uk through the corners - ya nutter
06 March 2002, 02:39 PM
#146
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after you took me out for a X-country run in your car,while testing the Dawes last week,I don't think K/hills wide enough for both of us at the same time 
.I already run out of track and thats when there's no other cars adout,must stop aiming for the cones on exit
.I already run out of track and thats when there's no other cars adout,must stop aiming for the cones on exit
.
