chris singleton

Let's not jump to conclusions without knowing the facts, 20k might have included suspension, big brakes, etc and surely a stonger gearbox to cope with 500bhp. PPG Gearkit alone is around £2500.

Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle

Chris

silent running

So who did the build?

Area 52 Autosport

This is one of ours.
Clearly, already people are jumping to conclusions that aren't supported by any facts.

Mark's Bill was £20K, because he had a whole lot more than just a built engine, PPG box, AP Brakes Etc.

As Mark's already pointed out, we ran the car in ourselves and oil consumption was exactly as expected on a new build on running in oil.

We've not seen high oil consumption on this engine while it's been with us, next message we get back from Mark suggests it's been ran with too little oil in it and suggesting that oil has been consumed/lost at a rate that should have set off alarm bells before a low pressure warning did?

10 miles per litre has been suggested to us at one point?

Obviously, it seems that everything was working perfectly well, then all of a sudden it's not. We don't know what's happened until we get to look at the car?

The reports we've had over the last 2 days are that it's NOT burning oil (as no visible indication of smoke confirms), but also it has NO LEAKS, yet it's apparently lost oil at a rate bad enough to scare OPEC?


Mark's been told that if we've done anything wrong which has bought about this issue, then we'll resolve it in its entirety. He's also been made aware that if the issue is not of our doing, he'll likely end up with a bill.
If it's something we've done wrong, it will be our first engine failure of its like that we've ever had!

Until we've seen the car, it's impossible to speculate just what's happened with any degree of certainty?


Mike.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Sounds fair enough to me

Leg@cy

iTrader: (2)

TOP ANSWER !!

Nice of you to comment !!

stringostar

20k on an upgrade.... i wish i had that to spend on a car, let alone a 500 horsepower engine and box!!!!

catons scooby

funny how a thread about how much oil a 2.5ltr burns turns into this, i want to know how a car burns so much oil, not name and shame a company, the car worked fine and was amazing to drive,

i have asked for oppion's on how this has happened

if no one can suggest any possible senerio's now, what difference will taking the engine apart find, it must be something, ie like above, the pistons are the wrong size???

"Until we've seen the car, it's impossible to speculate just what's happened with any degree of certainty?"
so you must have an idea of the possibilities of why it has burnt so much oil, i never said 10miles per litre, i said its burnt nearly 7-8 litres since i have got it back 29days ago, some days its reading fine another day it needs topping up, then it burnt all 4 lites in 40miles, no it has no leaks no smoke nothing exhaust is clean no trace's of oil in the engine bay, or the garage floor etc,

Leg@cy

iTrader: (2)

When my engine was built 'originally'........... I had it back to 'run in'.....

I understood it may use some oil during the running in period......... I was upto a litre of usage in very short mileage.....

I used a gallon of oil over 1000 miles (or so....) needless to say it went back for a rebuild......

I beleive the answer was indeed the piston/bore gap was too large..

but it won't be certain until it's on the bench....

hope it goes well !!

Phil

catons scooby

the car has been run in by the tuner as i had the offer to have it back to run in but i left it with them, sounds very similar to my oil usage, im only after opinions as to why it could have burnt so much not an argument as to who's being blamed, is there anyway other way to burn or leak oil with out seeing it, ie the pump fails and it burns through the breathers as they vent to atmosphere,

SSCJAY

Am sure Scoobymania would not have put the wrong size pistons in so you can discount that one.

Have you checked Oil breathers? Are they venting via Catch can?

If it was a Piston problem you would have large volumes or oil coming from the breathers.

My engine has high oil consumption, has burned about 1 Litre in 2000 miles,
It Never smokes on start up or when going along except when on full boost Initially I get a puff of Smoke from the exhaust, maybe this was happening to yours and you didn't notice, can be caused by piston wash due to slight overfuelling on initial boost, which can occur on a perfectly well mapped car when cold due to cold enrichment.
Although normally I wait until everthing is at running temp before pushing the right foot down.

If there really are no visable leaks it must be being burnt out the exhaust, Turbo can leak oil, especially if it has wrong size restrictor.

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

i can see why you asked the question and I feel for you

but if a company who I had just spent 20k said

"If it's something we've done wrong, " they will sort it , implying it could be something you had done I would be even more pi55ed off

I think i will stick to API\RCM thanks,

Area 52 Autosport

As do we.

Under these circumstances, what would you have us say then? Remember, we've had this car, ran it in, done over 1,000 miles in it, during which time we have seen NOTHING untoward in this area?

Or are you implying that the only thing which can cause an issue of this nature HAS to be a build problem, and can't be a "user related issue"?

I know, you're going to say it could be either? That's not a million miles from what we've said though really is it?

RCM are fine, if you're going elsewhere though We'll get you booked in so we can remove the wrong con rods, the wrong pistons and supply the shortfall 140HP you didn't receive either.


Mike

Leg@cy

iTrader: (2)

Some things can be missed........ and after all we are all human....

Genuinely, though........ I would be interested in the findings - if only to understand how these things occur - from a technical perspective !

Cheers

Tidgy

and i'm sure errors happen, were all only human, if they have done something wrong, im sure they'll find it, own up, put it right and jobs a goodun.

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

what would you have us say?

I would say sir dont worry about anything, let us sort out getting your car to us so we can take a look at this problem

you may also want to send the person who wrote the above on a customer care course so he dosen't scare of any more potential customers

Area 52 Autosport

That's absolutely correct.


Mike.

Area 52 Autosport

Hmm, there's only so much we can do. When a customer tells you "I can't afford to even send the car to you", alarm bells will obviously sound.

We plain and simple don't pay to have cars sent to or from us, it gets into a whole insurance liability while in transit issue at the same time, it's not because we can't be bothered to.

"Customer care", we don't have a customer care "policy", we just treat everybody as well as we can, fairly and with an even hand.

Tidgy is right as well, if it's anything that is of our responsibility, we'll resolve it. That's more than some would even offer to do!

Mike.

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

FFS

please dont let the whole world know about your customers financial position he may not approve, i wouldn't

i just know if i was in catons scooby position i wouldn't be feeling to good right now and feel that your public reply wouldn't make it any better

we all make mistakes its how we deal with it that counts

i will step out of this as im sure it isn't what CS wanted when he started the thread

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Mike I think its admirable that you've come and put your side that you'll fix it its your fault, but a few items just seem to worry me. The OP was given 4litres of oil and told to keep an eye on the oil level, why so much oil after your company had 'run in' the vehicle.

? With that level of capital input into a project and for it to go wrong so shortly afterwards, I would of thought you might get someone to collect his vehicle for you, but if its not your policy, so be it. You can appreciate he's skint now after £20k investment.


I've had a recent 2.5 conversion and it was mentioned I should check the oil levels regulary and report back if it became an issue- I kept the garage informed of any oil use. Later my car developed minor engine problem and the garage picked up my car from my home, took back their workshop and then returned it too me- all in, a 400 mile journey for the garage, no questions or money asked for. All covered by a honest, if it breaks well fix warranty.

Im not having a go but hopefully you can appreciate a customer who has spent a huge some of money would like to feel he's going to be taken care of.

Andy

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Well that clears that up then, no need to check that after all .

As I said I have heard of this before and it turned out that the piston manufacturer had supplied pistons that were not the correct size. Manufacturing error or some idiot who put the wrong ones in the box, who knows?

The main issue was that the engine builder did not do basic checks to make sure he was fitting the correct parts. This is basics we're talking here. They let their reputation rest in the hands of others and it cost them big time.

I've never had any dealing wih scoobymania and have no axe to grind so I fully accept that this may not be the case but at the same time I'd be interested to hear what operator error they think may have caused such a thing after a textbook run in period?

Also, out of interest, what size were the pistons meant to be?

bighead

iTrader: (1)

Yes Chris....i meant £20k as a tunning package(i myself just spent a simular amount on my P1 ).
the sum is not yr everyday expence bills , so the garage in question "should treat him as one of thier biggest customer "...which he is !!

ex-webby

Guys,
Regardless of whether ScoobyMania is a ScoobyNet Supporter (sorry, but this needs to be said as some bright spark will say something to the contrary), I would say that since NO-ONE at this point in times knows what the actual cause of any issue is, shall we at least wait until the problem/cause has been verified.

I am sure the cause will be revealed in due course and since ScoobyMania have stated they will sort the issue if it is down to them, I am not sure that various "mud slinging" by some will help.

Tidgy

dont say something till you know

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Well said.

Facts seem to be unecessary to some here

SSCJAY

Just one more thing to mention,

When I installed my 2.5 I originally connected up the crank breather and the central balancer breather together, You would not belive the amount of oil that was pumped out. I lost about 400 ml of oil during the mapping session, the central breather is now capped off And catch can stays empty

Robbieben

I find it nearly impossible to understand why you did not contact Scooby Mania Immediately you had concerns about oil usage and the quantity your car was using, If they had just built an engine for me and it was returned to me in a "run in" condition I would expect minimal oil usage, surely alarm bells rang after using such large quantities of oil over such short distances.

TBH from what you have described I would think it can only be an internal fault of some nature, I have known incorrect pistons to be supplied in the correctly part numbered box and a busy person may have forgotten to check for certain that they were the correct size but assumed they were by the part number.

It's possible that the failure could be of another nature, broken rings or oil bypassing the Turbo but I'd have thought you would notice oil smoke in your exhaust gas and even smelt it, if your not really that technically minded you may not have noticed.

I've spent nearly 25 years of engine building and development of new technology for engines, a failure which is oil use related can usually be seen(ie smoke) and sometimes even heard, but if you don't know what to look/listen for I do understand how you have reached this point.

Hopefully you will reach an amicable outcome over this and own what sounds to be a very well prepared car which you'll enjoy driving, but in the future if you find your using more than 500 ml of oil in under 1000 miles of normal road use there is reason for concern

SSCJAY

Scoobymania's proceedure for short block assembly would not allow it, from their website:-

"The block is then “bored to piston”, this is done to balance out the very minor size differences from piston manufacture, so that each bore is exactly the correct tolerance for the specific piston it will carry. Ring gaps are then calculated and measured. Tolerances used by us in this area differ depending on each specific engine build and are a result of years of experience of what works best in particular scenarios"

burns

iTrader: (1)

Who's slinging mud here then, not very professional.

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

back to the thread title.....................

Incorrectly gapped rings would cause excessive oil usage, i know this from first hand experience, but in equal measure you would see this immediately on start up as it will smoke like f*ck and be very obvious. If this was the issue i'm sure it would have been noticed at the start of running in so it must be something else?

catons scooby

ok so could have been smoking at full boost
i was told it use's more oil its new and its a 2.5 but i wasn't told how much, i had no issue with leaks smoke etc so i thought it was just as it were new, it used alot of oil in one trip that caused concern, which was wednesday, thats when i spoke to the tuner,
they are very professional, and the car went like a rocket, would always recomend them, as said everyone could make a mistake, including me, its how you rissolve it at the end of the day,
yes im skint im 22 and spend alot of money on a car i'd never thought id own, but its hard to snap your fingers and pay £250 to send a car back after 10 actual days of driving,
so what errors could i have made to cause this?
all possibilities are welcome,
and ill appreciate if anyone is going to 'sling mud' dont bother its not that sort of post, im after reasons not bitching