Martin2005

There is another answer, (although unpalatable) buy a car thats cheaper to run!

One way of looking at fuel price (and assuming you buy into the Climate / Congestion challenges), is that it's the most obvious and fair way to make the polluter pay.

The problem here is we are all pissing in the wind if we believe fuel duty is going anywhere but up, we need to face facts, as we are on the wrong side of this arguement.

jockc79

i refuse to buy into this global warming bull****. I believe and many geologist believe the same, is that the world goes through a cycle and that the changes are natural and no matter what anyone does it will happen. It is same as when there was dinosaurs not all animals are supposed to survive thats why there is some close to extinction. I was reading somewhere that the sun goes through an 11 year cycle thats why it was cold this summer the sun was at its minimum it has to reach its peak in 4 years. so no doubt when in 4 years if it is really warm that will be global warming too


Thats just what i think, what do you think

Martin2005

I believe in cause and effect, to think that taking billions of tonnes of C02 (stored up over several hundred million years), out of the ground and then releasing it into the atmosphere in the space of a few decades, could have no impact is illogical and irrational

GC8WRX

i read somewhere that a runner produces 50g of co2, and an average car produces 180g (per mile), so five runners running together( for 1 mile) produce more co2 than an average family car!!!!!!

Green taxes are bollocks, its just a way for the government to make more money to ensure their gold plated pensions are still there in 20 years time!!!

Martin2005

Yes but the obvious thing you are missing is that the runner is carbon neutral, where as the car isn't

Plus even is that stat is correct (which I doubt), there aren't 20 million runners doing 12,000 miles a year each, are there?

95blackWRX

what about place like china with a billion cars on the road and a constant smog in the air surely they should be made to do something. i feel like we are being taxed for everywhere else in the world. government is to keen to jump on the green band wagon

Martin2005

China needs to get it's act together and soon but...

Per head they have far fewer cars and emit far less Co2, than we do

SirFozzalot

BP don't have any refineries in the UK any more either.

Petroplus now own the big refinery in Essex and they don't have any forecourts at all so they sell to whoever wants it.

jockc79

but they have about a billion cars on the road which is a lot when there is only around 5 million people in scotland i cant say i have noticed any climate change weather seems the same as it was 10 years ago

Heple

I could write a huge paragraph about how disgustingly high petrol/diesel prices are now, but I'm not. All I'm going to say is

"Thumbs up to all the Lorry drivers and every other motorist who supports them !!"

I believe 90% of the country will be behind them, i know 100% of all the people i have contact with does!

20p increase in 3 months in my area - what a scam

My 2p's worth

Paul3446

I support the truckers!

Martin2005

Where do you get your numbers from? In 2005 there was 12 Million cars in China, that 8 cars per 1000 of population, in the west it's over 500 cars per 1000 of population. Whether you've noticed climate change or not is fairly irrelevant though isn't it, the fact remains that the world is getting increasingly warmer (now we can debate all day what is causing this).

jockc79

are u serious the world is getting warmer, where is that happening because it is not this part of the word. i watched as wherevr it was prepared for olympics and they took a million cars off the roads it made no difference as there were millions more still on the road. global warming is a con

4evermad

iTrader: (1)

i back the truckers and put that in your pipe mr brown

Martin2005

Well there you have it then, it's all a conspiracy!

I think that the rapid melting of the ice caps is a slightly better indicator of global temperatures than whats happening in your back garden though!

jockc79

but there are sciencist that will tell you that would happen anyway no matter what you do its the earths cycle.


Everyone has there own idea. so can just leave it at that


I still back the truckers tho blockades all the way

Klaatu

CO2, this is the same gas responsible for the cooling between 1941 and 1975 and the warming from 1975?? Of course Al Gore and the IPCC conveniently forget about the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age.

I am all for reducing pollution, but being "carbon netral" or buying "cabon offsets" is for suckers, politicians and fairies.

There is a company in Australia that turns over about A10$b p/a trading carbon between Europe and Asia. Someone is making a lot of money, literally, out of thin air.

Shark Man

I've an idea. Why don't we bombard the oil companies and New labour with these bloody useless 10 year old Spam mails.

Maybe they'd get the point?

jockc79

i think all the talk of carbon foot frint and carbon offsetting is just a way for the government to tax us for something else. They will just say it is to help the enviroment which is bull**** all it helps is there pockets

Martin2005

Would you describe yourself as sceptical about Co2 and global warming, or just denying it out of hand?

I think healthy scepticism is a good thing, but just flat refusing to listern to the arguements is wrong and dangerous.

I was sceptical once, but the evidence is piling up. If I'm wrong then we've done little harm to ourselves, if you're wrong then god help us!

Brit_in_Japan

CO2 is increasing, the data is clear:-
Keeling Curve

As a species we are also cutting down primary forest at a frightening rate, so the ability of the planet to convert CO2 into oxygen is being reduced massively.

The atmosphere is warming and that has some side-effects, such as the melting of glaciers and the thawing of permafrost (releasing methane, a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2).
Explosive permafrost

The world is changing, it may be massively different in just a few generations.

Klaatu

Point me to a period in Earth's history when climate didn't change? And I've studied climate since the 70's. Methane is about 23 times more efficient at trapping heat than CO2, there's not much of it about compared to CO2 and water vapour.

A recent study reveals living forrests also produce methane in significant amounts. The production and use of concrete produces more CO2 than all of the in and outbound air traffic to/from the UK, why is private transport being singled out?

The "debate" isn't over. Concensus isn't science. The IPCC is not an independent body of scientists, it's a Govn't sponsored body of policy advisers and politicians. A large amount of the "data" in computer models is based on assumption and significant forcing factors.

Free yourselves from the media and "official sources". The media have been "predicting" doom since the late 1800's.

Eddie1980

Thats true actually I remember watching a documentary on the first sealed bio-sphere experiment they tried to do. They had massive problems keeping the CO2 down and they did not know why, or have a clue where it was all coming from. So they just went with the "ram in more and more plant life" solution . Ultimately they were unable to get enough plant life into the place to offset the CO2 despite having turned all the food growing areas into grass beds of a specific CO2 hungry grass type.... Turned out it was all the concrete in the structure that was giving off CO2 as it continues to do so for months after hardening.

Not saying global climate change is a myth, but I do believe that we are egotistical to go thinking we can explain whats happening and why. As the above shows a little knowllege is a dangerous thing these people suffered malnutrition in order to increase CO2 removal, something which in hindsight was doomed to fail.

What were now messing with is a rather large sealed system of almost infinite variants, if you can find me a scientist that can honestly look me in the eye and say he understands every relevant cause and effect from front to back I'd frankly be very surprised.

davyboy

Goodness knows why the truckers are so upset.

They just pass on the added cost to the customer....us.

The government must be rubbing their hands. Duty is fixed,but price rises give additional VAT.

jockc79

the truckers are upset because they will be forced out by haulers from different countries who get there fuel cheaper

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

right then guys i think most if not all people are behind anyone or anything to try and lower the fuel prices i for one am up for making any impact be it SMALL OR BIG, i just hope that it will make a difference but no doubt it will change anything but if we dont try we will never know!

big thumbs up to the lorry drivers and screw you esso and bp, prefer shell v-power anyhow lol

steve

CaptainJohn

This was released this morning:

The following statement is released on 10th December 2007 at 10:15Hrs

Transaction2007 have decided to release the date and time of protest action earlier than scheduled. This is to enable the motorist and public to better prepare themselves for the coming action.

A date of Saturday 15th December 2007 at 10:00am has been decided for protest action. This date was decided by members as the best possible to enable those who would normally be working during the week to attend. This action will be initiated at a refinery or storage depot somewhere near you. Anyone wishing to support action is requested to make your way there at the allotted time. Transaction again wish to emphasise the importance of legal protesting.

"TransAction 2007"


But the powers that be are ready for it .

ethanrob

iTrader: (3)

and will arrest anyone that dare's to "voice there opinion" in this great nation where freedom of speech is king

100% behind the truckers on this one,at last hopefully an organisation that is prepared to stand up and be counted in opposing the tirant and his minnions in this dictatorship we all know as "great britain"

marcus