bighead

iTrader: (1)

2.5 x 6 speeder = gearchange very 2-3 seconds

Andy.F

Thanks Martin, I was just drawing a comparison with a similar spec car on a 5 speed PPG, you may know it as Alan Garrods old car. It may be slightly heavier than yours as its a fully trimmed UK99, it runs an RCMS built engine with, I estimate from mapping approx 550-600bhp.
The new owner has taken it drag racing and has run a number of 11.1@132 mph on road tyres. I don't think he would have done this on a 6 speed.
All IMHO of course.

cheers

Andy

Tell me about it

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

sorry to hijack but whats the difference with the helical/synchro/dog ppg gear boxes i read about?

Andy.F

Good info here

Welcome to Par-Engineering!

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Andy , I think Sy has done those time s with the 6 speed , Same box as mine ??

Andy.F

Thats a different box again though Alan, it has the later wider (2.5/forester) ratios closer to the 5sp ratios and far more suited to a higher power car. The 2.0 UK/JDM 6 speed is geared more like an early RA.

Tidgy

i had exactly the same choice to make about 5 months ago.

replace with a standard/rebuilt box £600 ish, not good if your going for more power

6 speed £1800+ strong, but some people don't like the ratio change

5 speed helical or striaght cut ppg box £2700 strong as you can get

6 speed helical or straight cut ppg box £4700 strong as you can get

finaly option is prob nearer 8-10k and thats a full dog box,

PPG gear set and dog gear engagement system, its not cheap, strongest type of box you can get, but you have to double clutch

the PPG kits would use my existing 5th gear for the top gear to keep it nice and quiet for cruising.


in the end i went for the the ppg straight cut box, and have to confess i love it, the sound when you welly it is fantastic, i've got to the stage where i some times don't even notice it.

heres a little video of it taken from out side, mines the blue classic early on, but you can tell from the noise as i drive past then leave the road

Video of Scooby crescent - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

i love that sound,on my typeR the ratios are very close as it is,im never gonna run 400+bhp as i want a reliable everyday car so would i notice that much difference switching from the 5 sp to the 6 sp and would that change the top speed by much as 70 is around 3500 rpm in 5th would like it a bit quieter/lower for cruising

911

I've read of some mixing straight cut and helical, ie 1 to 3 are straight, 4th helical and 5th stock.
All on synchro of course.

dougwrx

I am just having a gearbox built at the moment with straight cut 1st/2nd and helical 3rd/4th with billet steel selctor forks, Mark at lateral suggested it and I thought it was a good combination as I do a lot of drag racing but the wife still uses it during the week.


Dougie

Matt_Davies

So with reference to my car again and in thinking that a PPG is an unnecessary cost on a road car of my current and proposed spec.

Which of these two 6 speed boxes would be better. Cars currently 320 BHP with the aim in the very near future for 380-ish BHP.

I quite like the thought of RA gearing but with a 6th gear for cruising.

Matt.

Andy.F

The latest 2.5/Forester 6sp box is the best one. Overall ratios are ideally suited to a circa 400bhp car. They may ?? also have better synchro on 5th which is weak on the 2.0 JDM/UK.
Don't kid yourself that RA ratios make the car quicker, yes it 'feels' quicker but on my old RA when it was around 400bhp, I reduced my 1/4 mile time by 0.1 seconds by fitting a std UK 2000 box (but then it broke )

ex-webby

I was informed one of the Subaru runners at this years TOTB with 550bhp was running a 6sp. It was good enough to bag him a 11.02 and that was in a full weight newage.

Didnt the Team Ice car also manage very quick times on the 6sp?

Matt_Davies

Thanks Andy, I think its definately the way to go - with mine at least

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

not yours?

Andy.F

So how come you use it as (one of your many) excuses to explain your slow times

ex-webby

That was before I knew I couldnt get away with using it as an excuse and because many others had told me the 6sp box was cack for drag running....... it wouldnt seem to be!

Matt_Davies

Ha Ha . . . Ouch! . . . So other than the bit of extra weight your carrying its not even that bad a box for 1/4 mile either then. Webby's car excluded obviously

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

its fast on the rollers though!

swisstonihasher

I'm heading for 500 bhp on UK 6 with 19" wheels and I've no complaint about the gearing as such...I love the fast changing (even faster with a quick shift on an already quick shift 6 speed selector!)...

Ref below:

6 speed with PPG kit/helical etc - why bother? They're so say good for upto 600 ft/lb as standard?

ex-webby

You bullies!!!

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

From my recent experience of a scoobyclinic built ppg i was running 400+bhp same trq 2.5 roger clark built engine,i wanted more trq and power so i went to david (CLINIC) and so it started

I had a ppg built with uk 5th gear as i do track days and drag strips as well as a normall road car the 6 speed wasnt a option from expereince could never get over the line in 4th and the extra change to 5th cost me time
The car now with its new ceramic clutch is a tottally different car i had a few mods added now running 460+ trq bhp is 440 on the road with ppg and 2.5 the car is like nothing else ive ever owned and ive owned a few..

So im saying deffo go for ppg david clinic or paul zen will sort it out no worries i have just learnt there is no guarantee on my box so keep this in mind but clinic have told me they look after me as always.....

Price is around 3400 with billet forks fitted ........

martyp1

The reason i only got a 12.2 at 119mph is the tyres i have on are crap (toyo t1r) .I got wheelspin and smoke of the tyres in 1st and 2nd ,plus have not got to grips with changing gear quick yet ,seems to take me ages .
I still think i will hit mid to low 11's if i can get the start sorted out,and 888 on , already started removing excess weight from the car
martin

Andy.F

Those are worse than webbys excuses Martin I have Toyo T1R on my heavy old MY02. On my first ever 1/4 with it I ran 11.9@122 with 'only' 450bhp on a 2.5..........but.....with a 5 speed

martyp1

My Excuse is ,its down to the driver not the power

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

550bhp is 10 second territory in a classic

black newage

not with marty behind the wheel

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

We run a PPG 5 speed dog box in our Skyline, great piece of kit

http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/cat...611_copysm.jpg

http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/cat...es/Team5sm.jpg

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

are all these ppg kitted cars that folk have everyday road cars or do most of you have a second car for daily use,thats the big fear i have,going to the expense of getting something fitted thats great for crail etc but a pita for goin to the shops,already had that issue with a paddle clutch,just couldnt get to grips with it so took it out and bought a normal uprated clutch.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

PPG Syncro works in the same way as a OE syncro box.

Heli-cut gears have some noise and straight cut have lots (whining).


Bob