Jerome

[vigilante mode on]

As far as I'm concerned, once you step over the line and become a criminal, you forfeit the right to be treated as a human being. If Kevin Jackson had wrestled the screwdriver off these scum and killed them both - justice would have been done. Likewise with Tony Martin. I don't care if he caught the ******, tied him to a tree and blasted his legs off. Justice would have been done.

[vigilante mode off]


[reality mode on]

What most people forget about the effects of crime, it is not just the victims, but also the FEAR of crime it gives the rest of the population. When people start to lock themselves indoors because they are terrified of criminals, the scumbags will be winning the battle. We need to turn the tide. If the law backed up people protecting their property (within reason) then maybe the criminals would start to feel the fear of what could happen to them.

We need harsher sentences for those caught. Minimum sentences of 5 years for burglary for instance. We need to bring in time added on for bad behaviour rather than time off for good behaviour. Bring in "three strikes and your out" - get caught three times and you get 25 years. If we need to build a few more prison (on anthrax island ), then so be it.

Also, something needs to be done about drugs. Most murders and gun crime, let alone theft and muggings, are drug related. We will never win the war against drugs, so why not set up government centres where drugs can be bought at cost legally. Over simplistic, but no-one has come up with a better idea yet.

[reality mode off]

MATTeL

Just think of the tax benefits if you supplied legal drugs to people!

Why build a prison on Anthrax Island? I thought tents would be generous!

How is the system ever going to change when the people handing out the sentances seem so out of touch and the person deciding on legislation doesn't care as long as it keeps him in a tax-free lifstyle?

mark.coleman

Before I start, I would like to send my deepest sympathies to the family concerned.

Unfortunately, we live in a society that has let people get away with violent crime too long, gone have the days when even spitting on the pavement got you a whack around the ear by a neighbour etc.

My opinion is that most laws are passed by people who have adequate protection from the everyday walk of life and are not confronted by what the general public have to deal with.

I'm sure that those who have little respect for human life and think nothing of maming someone, have criminal activities going back a long way and have not been stamped on early enough.

I'm sure Kevin Jackson, as I would have been, was not expecting to be attacked by cowards in the way he was and unfortunately the law as it is, does not invite a deterrent to a level to fit this type of crime, it sickening.

It's about time that the law was addressed to a sufficient level and changed to make people think twice, as I'm sure If I was put into a position to try and protect myself, I'm hardly going to request the attacker thinks before he starts on me.

At the end of the day, why should we have to live in a society that we pay money for, but not be able to leave our possessions unattended, without some to$$er(s) interferring with it and in this case, a loss of life.

druddle

I would like to add my deepest sympathies to Mr Jacksons family. I can only echo the views of people like Chris and Richard.

However, have you seen the latest - police have made arrests.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1741921.stm

Dave

MATTeL

Good, now let us hope it is the right person, that the CPS don't bottle it, the prosection don't slip up and the judge manages to stay awake this time.

Hopefully then some justice will be done and the vicious 'persons' will be dealt with in a way that puts the fear of God into the other criminals.

bug-eyed wonder

Quote from news article: Officers have been targeting known car criminals since Mr Jackson was fatally injured in the early hours of 30 December.

When will a change in the law be made to take known criminals off our streets before such tragedies are repeated.

NBW

Even if the culprits go down for a long stretch, why should tax payers foot their hotel bill at some academy of crime? A piece of rope or a bullet in the brain is much cheaper.

Perhaps this poor man's wife and family could then benefit from the money saved.

Fast_Blue_Scooby

Just my thoughts:

I agree with what has been said. I think if someone is breaking the law, then they cannot expect the law to be on their side when it all goes pear shaped.

If anyone attacks me, my members of my family or tries to take my possessions, I think in the heat of the moment, I would, if given the chance, give them a good hiding. I would have reacted exactly as Kevin Jackson did!!

We need tougher sentences, maybe longer jail terms, where 25 years means 25 years and not 10 years after 'good' behaviour! Maybe bring back hanging, or lethal injection for crimes that are getting out of hand, such as murder, rape, etc or for persistent offenders where their crime is putting fear into innocent people. WE'VE GOT TO SCARE THESE PEOPLE TO DEATH, JUST AS THEY ARE DOING TO US!!!

I started a thread on the release of the Jamie Bulger killers and loads of 'do gooders' came out to inform me that what I was saying was wrong.

So how would you feel if the people who murdered Mr Jackson are released in 5 or even 10 years time, which no doubt they will be?

If police know where the criminals live, then the powers of this country should allow them to arrest the whole bloody lot, lock them up and throw the bloody key away.

Alternatively instead of filling the prisons with scum like this, why don't we get them to put their energies into fighting for this country, ie send them to Afghanistan as part of the British Army or wherever the latest conflicts happen to be.

SOMETHING HAS GOT TO BE DONE!!!!

Si James

Walk very quietly and go with a big stick if you go after "them".

Only go after "them" if you have overwhelming might or a big cannon in you hand, and even then some of these guys go tooled up
with shooters.

A car is just not worth it.

It is not heroic to die for a car. For your family, children,
yes heroic. For a bit of metal? Not heroic.
Look it up in the dictionary.

My deepest sympathy to the relatives.


Si

tiggers

Like everyone else here my sympathies go out to Kevin Jackson's family and friends, it is a horrible tragedy and I hope the culprits are brought to justice.

Now what I've got to say next may well upset some of you, but I'm afraid it is the truth of Britain today.

People here have questioned why Kevin Jackson bothered to chase these people and in reply to that I have two things to say.

Firstly I don't think any of you really know what you would do in a situation like that until it arises. Some of you may well not give chase, but some of you may be surprised to find that you would react exactly the same way.

Secondly you have got to ask why people are more likely to react like that these days and to me the answer is simple. A lot of the general public have lost all confidence in the police and the judicial system in general and in my opinion this is not without good reason.

Let's be brutally honest. The police in this country are almost useless. They are just not interested in investigating crime of any sort (with the exception of speeding, but I'm not getting into that debate here). They blame the courts and say what is the point of arresting people if the courts don't hand out proper sentences, but my response to that is do two wrongs make a right. The courts can't hand out any sentence if no one is brought before them.

On the subject of the courts they too are pathetic. All someone has got to do is claim they are from a broken home and they get let off. OK it's not as simple as that, but you know what I mean. I'm not a hard line right winger, but I do think that if someone commits a crime they should get a proper sentence otherwise what is going to stop them from doing it again and again.

Now I know this will make some of you angry, but before you decide to post a reply defending our beloved police force and judicial system let me assure you that if you so wish I can give you several real world examples of police disinterest and negligence that have happened to acquaintances of mine very recently. I'd rather not post them as they are somewhat lengthy, but I can assure you they would not make for comforting reading.

Finally I saw a report yesterday where the police were this time blaming the massive rise in street crime on fact that they had had to divert additional resources into anti-terrorism measures since September 11th and yet again complaining about a general lack of resources. Well I still see all the unmarked cars cruising round the Manchester area looking for the most heinous crime of speeding, why don't they divert some of them to something more useful. Oh Yeah, I wasn't going to get into that debate was I, sorry?

Anyway, given all this I think it's quite easy to see why vigilante behaviour is on the increase.

Sorry for such a long post, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Regards,

tiggers.

Si James

Charles Bronson mode is <on>.
All the time.

I would not hestitate to use extreme force(ehem...that is of course "reasonable force officer)if I discovered
some tea leap/rapist/low life wandering around my house in the middle of the night.

If you think your life is in danger, then running someone through
with a Samurai sword might be reasonable behavior.


Si

KF

First, condolances to the friends and family of the victim. A distressing and tragic thing to have happened to the family.

There are people out there that believe that insurance is there for a purpose (other than to make the companies a profit). They percieve that there is no cost attached to making a claim - they say, "don't fight, it is only a car". These people are both Subaru owners (see above) and criminals.

The perpotrator was stealing someones car, which whilst morally wrong wasn't something he attached that much importance to. He was carrying a screwdriver to get into the car.

During the attempt some chap starts chasing him down the street, plainly intent on hurting the thief very badly indeed.
The balance of the above posts would indicate that lots of people on here would feel no qualms about defending themselves with extreme prejudice from an assailant.

Hopefully you can see my point.

About the police.
The fact is, they know who the local criminals are - you speak to an officer about a crime, and they will give you a list of suspects that they have seen before numerous times. There is a cost (time + money) to reward (sentence) balance to policing. The instant this thief went from known car thief to murderer, the reward to the police was much larger. Hence they managed to arrest someone in 3 days. If this was a routine attempted theft, there would have been no arrests made, despite the fact that the evidence is the same.

Now what confuses me is where all this moderate pressure is coming from? Why isn't there a move to increase the length of sentences? Who is resisting longer sentences, and why?
Who actually has the power in society now. Not you or me, is it?
KF.

Si James

KF,

You are right, you have no power after you have used your vote.
Once they are in power they can 5uck you over and don't give a toss.

Writing to you MP may influence them though (votes,votes, votes)
esp. on local issues. I regularly write to T Blair et al in #10
and they have to answer. First a letter on #10 headed paper, then a long reply from some government flunkey in Walworth Road.

If enough people write thay may just take a bit of notice (they keep all the letters on an Excalabur EDMS system).

Si

Jerome

Good point MATTeL. Make all judges and MPs live in Brixton or Hackney. Might focus their minds somewhat...

Also like the idea about tents

[Edited by Jerome - 1/4/2002 10:44:44 AM]