TD05-18G alternative
12 August 2007, 10:33 AM
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18G from forced performance in the US is circa £550 delivered and as good as anything available here. I have had an 18G on my classic by a well known UK supplier and have now opted for the FP 18G at nearly half the price. Scooby mania and a couple of other UK suppliers are selling and fitting the Forced performance turbos. If you buy from the US direct its a very good deal.
Silent Running and all the others that have helped out, thanks a lot
.Scoobystiv8, I think you are the winner, I have found this turbo on their site: Forced Performance: Subaru FP 18G Turbo
The 1st question is will that fit directly on to a STI5 or what bits should I get off the 'related items' at the bottom to go with it? I was thinking of getting the gasket set as a matter of course. Next question, ported or non? I didn't 100% get their explanation of it tbh. Final question, how would this beast differ (apart from price of course
) to an Andy Forrest AFP 5-18? (AndyForrestPerformance).Thanks and sorry again for all the questions but I think I might well have to fit this myself before going for remap
.
12 August 2007, 11:34 AM
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To answer the original question, the latest bolt on Garrett ball baring turbos such as the MD321H will give a bar of boost at circa 3000rpm, fantastic throttle response, and make 400bhp + if you want it to.
Yes they are a few hundred pounds more than a TD05 based turbo, and whilst I realise not everyone can afford the extra money, if you can, they are more than worth it.
A TD05H-18G is the next best thing for a 2.0lt, & up to circa 380bhp, but I think it's important to make sure that parts, & prices are compared "like for like".
The "TD05-18G" shown in the pictures of both FP, & Scooby Mania's web sites, are not true 18G's, but 16G turbo's fitted with an 18G compressor wheel.
You cannot compare this to the 18G's supplied by companies such as Andy Forrest, & Zen, because their turbo's are true 18G's, which use the bigger 18G compressor cover, and are of course more expensive to make.
With regard to genuine Subaru fit 16G's, these have only been available from Mitsubishi with the 90 degree intake. I have yet to see, or speak to anyone else who has seen an OEM straight entry TD05H-16G on a Subaru.
If they are supplied as "straight entry", you should be able to see where the cover has been modified.
16G turbo's with a straight entry "cast in", are most likely copies.
The problem with "copy" products, is not that they are copies, but the quality they are normally made to.
Having tested several of the cheaper Far East offerings, including parts from a company mentioned here, they are without doubt copies, and of a much lower quality to the genuine part.
Price is important, but first, & foremost, the part has to do it's intended job.
Mark.
Yes they are a few hundred pounds more than a TD05 based turbo, and whilst I realise not everyone can afford the extra money, if you can, they are more than worth it.
A TD05H-18G is the next best thing for a 2.0lt, & up to circa 380bhp, but I think it's important to make sure that parts, & prices are compared "like for like".
The "TD05-18G" shown in the pictures of both FP, & Scooby Mania's web sites, are not true 18G's, but 16G turbo's fitted with an 18G compressor wheel.
You cannot compare this to the 18G's supplied by companies such as Andy Forrest, & Zen, because their turbo's are true 18G's, which use the bigger 18G compressor cover, and are of course more expensive to make.
With regard to genuine Subaru fit 16G's, these have only been available from Mitsubishi with the 90 degree intake. I have yet to see, or speak to anyone else who has seen an OEM straight entry TD05H-16G on a Subaru.
If they are supplied as "straight entry", you should be able to see where the cover has been modified.
16G turbo's with a straight entry "cast in", are most likely copies.
The problem with "copy" products, is not that they are copies, but the quality they are normally made to.
Having tested several of the cheaper Far East offerings, including parts from a company mentioned here, they are without doubt copies, and of a much lower quality to the genuine part.
Price is important, but first, & foremost, the part has to do it's intended job.
Mark.
12 August 2007, 03:15 PM
#35
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Yes perhaps I wasn't clear -my 16G (from Bullseyepower in the States) is a genuine Subaru fitment TD05H-16G which is ONLY available as a 90 degree entry. It has had the 90 degree snorkel machined off the compressor cover, this is clear from looking at the compressor entry. A copy would often simply have a new blank looking 16G cover that has been cast to have the front entry from the start.
18G covers do not have the 90 degree snorkel machined off, because TD05-18G turbos were never standard fit on any Subaru. There are lots of variants, but with my limited knowledge of the subject, '18G' turbos can either be, as Mark mentions above, a larger 18G wheel inside a 16G cover, or with the matching 18G cover as well, which is noticeably larger and more 'snail-like' if you get what I mean. There are all sorts of other variants such as 'big 16g', 'super 16g' etc etc. I think the most important thing is if you're after an 18G, make sure it's not still running the 16G cover.
18G covers do not have the 90 degree snorkel machined off, because TD05-18G turbos were never standard fit on any Subaru. There are lots of variants, but with my limited knowledge of the subject, '18G' turbos can either be, as Mark mentions above, a larger 18G wheel inside a 16G cover, or with the matching 18G cover as well, which is noticeably larger and more 'snail-like' if you get what I mean. There are all sorts of other variants such as 'big 16g', 'super 16g' etc etc. I think the most important thing is if you're after an 18G, make sure it's not still running the 16G cover.
13 August 2007, 12:43 PM
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13 August 2007, 03:58 PM
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Sorry to dig this up, but what makes you say that they are fakes? I am considering a VF34 or one of the TD05 variants from 'warehousejapan' on Ebay as I wasn't planning on having to buy a new turbo and unlike so many others on here in my field of work, I am far from loaded so that counts the likes of Andy F turbos out for me .
Cheers,
Nick.
Cheers,
Nick.
Whatever you do dont buy a turbo from warehousejapan. The turbos he sells are JUNK.
I bought a TD05 20 a few months back. When fitted and mapped, the car didnt even make 300 bhp dispite me having all the supporting mods.
The seller ingnored my requests for a refund.
I had to buy yet another turbo, labour costs for taking off turbo and putting on a new one. Then the cost of yet another remap.
Spend as much as you can on your turbo, dont make the same mistake i made
13 August 2007, 04:10 PM
#39
Hi Nick
Whatever you do dont buy a turbo from warehousejapan. The turbos he sells are JUNK.
I bought a TD05 20 a few months back. When fitted and mapped, the car didnt even make 300 bhp dispite me having all the supporting mods.
The seller ingnored my requests for a refund.
I had to buy yet another turbo, labour costs for taking off turbo and putting on a new one. Then the cost of yet another remap.
Spend as much as you can on your turbo, dont make the same mistake i made
Whatever you do dont buy a turbo from warehousejapan. The turbos he sells are JUNK.
I bought a TD05 20 a few months back. When fitted and mapped, the car didnt even make 300 bhp dispite me having all the supporting mods.
The seller ingnored my requests for a refund.
I had to buy yet another turbo, labour costs for taking off turbo and putting on a new one. Then the cost of yet another remap.
Spend as much as you can on your turbo, dont make the same mistake i made
Did you get another 20g from someone and how much does it put out now?
13 August 2007, 04:43 PM
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Lol, damn you helpful gits I think I have no choice but to go hump Andy F's leg over one his turbos and see if he thinks the 18 would be perfick or perhaps a 20 . I will email him tonight.
Thanks again guys
I think I have no choice but to go hump Andy F's leg over one his turbos and see if he thinks the 18 would be perfick or perhaps a 20 . I will email him tonight.Thanks again guys
13 August 2007, 08:00 PM
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14 August 2007, 05:34 PM
#43
I have it on good authority from someone who deals with Imprezas and their turbos day in day out, who ordered a TD05 compressor wheel from that same ebay place and whether it was from Japan or not, he could tell straight away from the look of it that it was a fake. That's good enough for me, seeing as his opinion matched with my own gut feeling having been stitched up buying 'Japanese' stuff on ebay before.
If the wheel is a copy then chances are the turbo is a copy and for that reason I did not take a chance buying a turbo that might under perform or prove unreliable with potential engine damage. I have been told of someone from Middlesborough who bought one of these turbos but unfortunately the exhaust wheel broke off the shaft.
14 August 2007, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for that Harvey, very useful to know for us folks . I bit the bullet last night and spammed Andy F with a few questions before getting a turbo from him. Either he is busy or doesn't want to sell me one 
.
. I bit the bullet last night and spammed Andy F with a few questions before getting a turbo from him. Either he is busy or doesn't want to sell me one .
14 August 2007, 08:47 PM
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16 August 2007, 12:09 PM
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Obviously, caution is required when making any kind of purchase, especially where an "entity" only exists in cyberspace, or doesn't have a shop/workshop where you can walk in and speak to somebody.
We chose to work with Forced Performance based on MANY years research, experience and testing. They do manufacture some parts that look like MHI parts but are (very deliberately) different, like the modified inlet 16g covers and the actuators that look stock but have stiffer springs in them, and few dozen other useful parts.
Wouldn't a person rather have a solid cast cover rather than a 2 piece one with a sleeve pressed into the inlet that can come loose? It's called "evolution" changes are made as an IMPROVEMENT over the stock designs, whether that be 16G, 18G or 20G relevant.
Forced Performance are experts at this of course, this is why they are held in such high regard.
If FP want something and it doesn't exist, they make it themselves. All of their Turbochargers built in-house, in McKinney Texas, without so much of a hint of Cheap Chinese Labour!
FP are the largest MHI turbo distributor in North America, MHI engineers have confirmed that the 18g operates in the 16g cover with very minimal loss in flow over the larger cover, the loss being in the order of a couple percent at peak flow, but the gains that brings far outweigh these almost immeasurable losses.
With direct access to MHI turbo engineers, and compressor and turbine flow maps they're very well based to make alterations for the "improvement of the breed", we provide feedback, and even sometimes suggestions of our own which all go into the pot to make these specific products into what they are.
Not all 16G's 18G's or 20G's will perform the same We make sure that we've always got plenty of each stacked up on the shelf, ready to go. 
We chose to work with Forced Performance based on MANY years research, experience and testing. They do manufacture some parts that look like MHI parts but are (very deliberately) different, like the modified inlet 16g covers and the actuators that look stock but have stiffer springs in them, and few dozen other useful parts.
Wouldn't a person rather have a solid cast cover rather than a 2 piece one with a sleeve pressed into the inlet that can come loose? It's called "evolution" changes are made as an IMPROVEMENT over the stock designs, whether that be 16G, 18G or 20G relevant.
Forced Performance are experts at this of course, this is why they are held in such high regard.
If FP want something and it doesn't exist, they make it themselves. All of their Turbochargers built in-house, in McKinney Texas, without so much of a hint of Cheap Chinese Labour!
FP are the largest MHI turbo distributor in North America, MHI engineers have confirmed that the 18g operates in the 16g cover with very minimal loss in flow over the larger cover, the loss being in the order of a couple percent at peak flow, but the gains that brings far outweigh these almost immeasurable losses.
With direct access to MHI turbo engineers, and compressor and turbine flow maps they're very well based to make alterations for the "improvement of the breed", we provide feedback, and even sometimes suggestions of our own which all go into the pot to make these specific products into what they are.
Not all 16G's 18G's or 20G's will perform the same
We make sure that we've always got plenty of each stacked up on the shelf, ready to go.
16 August 2007, 05:27 PM
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Some comparisons, so people can see what is being offered, and what to look out for.
Original MHI/Subaru TD05H-16G 90 degree cover, showing the specific Subaru, & MHI pt.no's (Subaru 14412AA092) (MHI 49178-06310)
An original TD05H-16G cover machined, & converted to straight entry by Forced Performance.
JAWarehouse copy turbo. Note that even the original MHI & Subaru pt.no's, relating directly to the original 90 degree cover, have been copied !!!
Another copy TD05H-16G turbo, made as straight entry, but with the PT.no removed. However, you can see that they are most likely coming from the same source as the JAW turbos, because of the identical "3L & 0/4" on the right hand side of the cover.
"Forced Performance" version of the TD05H-16G, also used for their TD05H-18G..............................
Mark.
Original MHI/Subaru TD05H-16G 90 degree cover, showing the specific Subaru, & MHI pt.no's (Subaru 14412AA092) (MHI 49178-06310)
An original TD05H-16G cover machined, & converted to straight entry by Forced Performance.
JAWarehouse copy turbo. Note that even the original MHI & Subaru pt.no's, relating directly to the original 90 degree cover, have been copied !!!
Another copy TD05H-16G turbo, made as straight entry, but with the PT.no removed. However, you can see that they are most likely coming from the same source as the JAW turbos, because of the identical "3L & 0/4" on the right hand side of the cover.
Mark.
16 August 2007, 05:51 PM
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Some comparisons, so people can see what is being offered, and what to look out for.
Original MHI/Subaru TD05H-16G 90 degree cover, showing the specific Subaru, & MHI pt.no's (Subaru 14412AA092) (MHI 49178-06310)
An original TD05H-16G cover machined, & converted to straight entry by Forced Performance.
JAWarehouse copy turbo. Note that even the original MHI & Subaru pt.no's, relating directly to the original 90 degree cover, have been copied !!!
Another copy TD05H-16G turbo, made as straight entry, but with the PT.no removed. However, you can see that they are most likely coming from the same source as the JAW turbos, because of the identical "3L & 0/4" on the right hand side of the cover.
"Forced Performance" version of the TD05H-16G, also used for their TD05H-18G..............................
Mark.
Original MHI/Subaru TD05H-16G 90 degree cover, showing the specific Subaru, & MHI pt.no's (Subaru 14412AA092) (MHI 49178-06310)
An original TD05H-16G cover machined, & converted to straight entry by Forced Performance.
JAWarehouse copy turbo. Note that even the original MHI & Subaru pt.no's, relating directly to the original 90 degree cover, have been copied !!!
Another copy TD05H-16G turbo, made as straight entry, but with the PT.no removed. However, you can see that they are most likely coming from the same source as the JAW turbos, because of the identical "3L & 0/4" on the right hand side of the cover.
"Forced Performance" version of the TD05H-16G, also used for their TD05H-18G..............................
Mark.
16 August 2007, 08:49 PM
#54
Well, since we are all posting pix, I was kind of wondering if anyone could identfy this turbo? I know what it is supposed to be, but I'm kind of worried I have been had.
16 August 2007, 09:32 PM
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That's an original TD05H-16G cover converted to front entry. You can see where the 90 degree pipe has been cut back.
It's harder to say if everything else is standard on it, but it looks right, assuming that's what you were told it was.
Mark.
It's harder to say if everything else is standard on it, but it looks right, assuming that's what you were told it was.
Mark.
16 August 2007, 09:34 PM
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Mark, it seems obvious that you are trying to discredit Forced Performance. I can only presume it is to protect your own turbo range and profit margins?
We test all of the products we supply on our own cars, whether it be a clutch, turbo or injector on our flow tester etc etc. We know what can happen when untried/dodgy products end up on customer cars (I think you know full well the results of that don't you Mark?).
We do not get customers to test drive our products for us at their expense, like many 'tuners' working out of their spare bedroom do
Anyway...
We recently back to back tested various FP turbos on one of our shop cars. We paid for the turbos (no freebies), the dyno time & associated fitting costs out of our own money (as any respectable tuner should!). The results were 460bhp, 480bhp and 520bhp respectively. All have been extensively tested out on the road too, at upto 2.4 bar/35psi. If they didn't do what they are supposed to do we wouldn't sell them.
BTW we can supply the '18G' in 8 different configurations. If any 'tuner' tells you that there is only one 'true 18G' then they are either talking bollocks, have zero product knowledge or just very naive. Maybe all three if they're really good?
We test all of the products we supply on our own cars, whether it be a clutch, turbo or injector on our flow tester etc etc. We know what can happen when untried/dodgy products end up on customer cars (I think you know full well the results of that don't you Mark?).
We do not get customers to test drive our products for us at their expense, like many 'tuners' working out of their spare bedroom do
Anyway...
We recently back to back tested various FP turbos on one of our shop cars. We paid for the turbos (no freebies), the dyno time & associated fitting costs out of our own money (as any respectable tuner should!). The results were 460bhp, 480bhp and 520bhp respectively. All have been extensively tested out on the road too, at upto 2.4 bar/35psi. If they didn't do what they are supposed to do we wouldn't sell them.
BTW we can supply the '18G' in 8 different configurations. If any 'tuner' tells you that there is only one 'true 18G' then they are either talking bollocks, have zero product knowledge or just very naive. Maybe all three if they're really good?
16 August 2007, 11:39 PM
#59
