Matteeboy

Chief - The first guy I fought at my last comp was a couple of inches taller (I'm 5'8") but a good three stone heavier - he looked a real mean bugger and I was seriously nervous.
Like you experienced, he did not seem to know what "semi contact" meant and I took several nasty blows to the head BUT he knackered himself out and was a bit of a one trick pony - Soon worked out that a slug fest was not the right way to approach him and got a few decent head kicks in and to my utter suprise, beat him. He was fuming!
Left me a bit dizzy for the next rounds but it was the most memorable competition fight I've had.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

That was why I was asking.

Im glad to see the 'Japanese standard' dojos do exist elsewhere.

We have one of those near me. Luvely building, but very american and gradings given out as clockwork, no matter what the standard.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

[quote=AndyC_772;7059922]I'm not sure that 'pushing' is necessarily the right word quote]

Agreed, not the right word. It wasn't meant as a dig to anyone.

More that people have some 'pride' or 'passion' about their own martial art. And why not? Its what they know.

Matteeboy

Hol - I'm happy to look at any martial art that seems effective.

I think all of them have weaknesses - sparring against TKD people, it's clear that they kick well but are weaker close in, karate is rather "rigid" and although a strong discipline, it lacks the fluidity needed for many situations.
King Fu is great hand to hand but lacks answers when it comes to floor work and kicks.

No martial art covers all areas so I think it's best to combine at least two.

The Chief

i woudl imagine that you were a damn site quicker as well - the best weight division in my opinion were the middleweights 11-13 stone, they coudl hit hard and were lightening fast too. a lot of the heavy weights relied on power and to a degree leg length to score points, i had a fair bit of power (which is bloody useless in semi contact TKD) and standing at a height of ooo about 5'10" i was knackered when getting in with some 6'6" monster.

My instructor was a middleweight world champion and he taught me how to over come my portly and short **** genetics one way was to do a fake round kick then they would come in to me i'd follow up with a reverse hook/side kick and it would get them (almost) everytime - once inside their guard i was ok as i was really quick with my hands.

i was not a big fan of comps though - too many people out to make a point and getting smacked on a Sunday morning when i coudl have been lay in bed did not appeal


I have a lot of respect for people who train to be champs or instructors though, lots of dedication and sacrifices

NeilT

Yes, despise those with a passion. Lots of stuff on McDojos on KarateForums.com - Karate and Martial Arts Discussion Forums

I'm lucky to have a very good club nearby, which had ties with Sensei Kase and Enoeda prior to their deaths, so follows their teachings and methods, as well as those of Steve Cattle (when he was around).

Neil

Matteeboy

Chief - I was at the lower to middle end of middleweight (11.75 stone) and he must have been at least 14 stone - This comp was done according to experience level first with weight division within that - not sure how he ended up in the middleweight class!
The rest were lankier but taller - I have a decent reach for a semi dwarf but that's about it.
Also learned a good tournament ender not unlike yours - stand is left stance, switch stances (very quickly) then throw a roundhouse kick of the left leg - it combines the speed of a kick off the front leg with the power of one off the back. If that doesn't hit home, keep the leg up (or drop very briefly) and hook kick with the same leg.
Also learned the power and usefulness of the jab as both a rangefinder and a useful way of wearing out an opponent.
And finally - how flashy moves simply don't work in comps - too tiring and too slow.

Anyway, sorry to bore everyone else to tears - quite enthusiastic about the old kickboxing/martial arts thing!

Bonehead

Not sure where you've got all that from but that's not the true origins of Krav Maga. Certainly there's no emphasis on strength more on simple techniques anyone can master. Aggression?, oh yes, that's one of the things I like about it.

Krav is a mongrel system based on the most effective bits of other systems.
The originator Imi Lichtenfeld created the original bits of the system for the Israeli armed forces/Police when the country was formed.
His brief was to create a simple, practical, effective, useable system that doesn't require loads of training to become proficiant drawing from his background.
The difference between Krav and the other systems being discussed is Krav is'nt a sport.
Its sole purpose is self-defence. There are no competitions or tournements.

From:
Krav Maga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Krav Maga, there are no hard-and-fast rules. It is not a sport, and there are no competitions. All the techniques focus on maximum efficiency in real-life conditions. Krav Maga generally assumes a no quarter situation; the attacks and defenses are intended to inflict the most pain possible on the opponent in the least amount of time. Groin strikes, headbutts, and other efficient and potentially brutal attacks are emphasized.

The guiding principles for those performing Krav Maga techniques are:

neutralize the threat
avoid injury
go from defending to attacking as quickly as possible
use the body's natural reflexes
strike at any vulnerable point
use any tool or object nearby
The basic idea is to first deal with the immediate threat (being choked, for example), prevent the attacker from re-attacking, and then neutralize the attacker, proceeding through all steps in a straightforward manner, despite the rush of adrenaline that occurs in such an attack. The emphasis is put on taking the initiative from the attacker as soon as possible.


One of the developers of the system was highly proficiant in Aikido, most of the ground work comes from brazilian Ju-Jitsu, and the knees, elbows and kicks comes from Muay Thai.

I was talking with a guy in my class recently. The shorterned version of what he was saying is: "I did a particuarly tough form of karate for ten years. After doing Krav Maga for three months I felt more capable of looking after myself in the real world."

I spent quite a bit of time trying to decide which system I was going to study. I picked Krav Maga because it's simple and it suits my needs.
I think that's a point no-one's really mentioned yet:
The best system is the one that suits what you want and suits your personality. Krav works really well for me, but may not suit others. It depends what you're looking for.

Regards
Tony

Matteeboy

Tony - sounds interesting.

Any website with club locations anywhere?

Cornwall seriously lacks decent martial arts clubs (did my training in Surrey and Bristol)!

Hol

iTrader: (1)

Very Lucky,

Our chief instructor has met him, as did his mentor, who used to run the Thames Karate Association in the 80's, (and who failed me 3 times in my teens )

But, as far as I know the ties are not close.

Bonehead

It's a brilliant system

There's a few different federations/groups within the Krav Maga world.
The main one is called the International Krav Maga Federation - IKMF
The UK website has a list of all the UK instructors. I'm in the east midlands so I've no idea if there' anyone near you.
International Krav Maga Federation (IKMF) UK - Home Page

Well worth a look

Regards
Tony

Matteeboy

Cheers Tony - One is Bristol (3 hrs drive), on in N Devon (2.5 hours) - Damn!

Will email them to see if anything might appear down here one day!

craigmk2crx

It most def helps I've been doing freestyle kickboxing on & of for past 9yrs. I'm in off mode at the moment & have been for last 18 months. Got a bad knee injury & haven't been back to the club since. It's 100% now but my shifts at work changed so i can't make classes

Hopefully they'll be changing again soon so i can start again

As for being helpful. It makes your sense of awareness increase & also your reactions are faster. After a few months of training i found i could read people movement & body language better so found it easier to avoid or block a punch & counter strike.

I suppose it depends on how much you train. My classes were 3 times per week but i've part of my garage done out as a dojo with mats on the floor, 6' kick bag, speedball, floor to ceiling ball etc. Altogether inc trainin at home with some mates that did kb with me I was probably trained 6 days per week.

After doing that for a decent length of time everything becomes quite natural


Craig

The Chief

The Midlands and Bristol for some reason seem to be a Mecca for martial arts

Matteeboy

And Cornwall is a martial arts desert!

Used to spar with members of the "Bristol Death Squad" which was always fun!

The Chief

They sound lovely people

Matteeboy

They are indeed - see bottom of this link - Jay Bhart was my instructor and a top bloke. Sean Viera is also a great guy although frickin deadly to spar against!

Sean Veira Martial Arts - Bristol Lau Gar Kung Fu

Poor Guy

I enjoyed BJJ last night. Very good. Used some techniques i use in Judo on them which threw them a little and took away some very useful techniques.
Apparently theres 4 black belts in GracieBJJ and hes one of them. I dunno, dont care. Somewhere Im learning and training.
Also did some fighting without the gi, which made me think about how im going to be gripping any fools that start on me whos shirt will rip after a throw.

Excellent groundwork techniques i thought.

The Chief

A few years ago i contacted Geoff Thompson who has trained in martial arts and done doorwork for years, really handy bloke in a street fight.

anyway once upon a time he would come up to your club - for a fee obviously and do seminars in street self defence.

he e-mailed me back and he'd just 6 months previous stopped travelling the country, but he did invite me to go down to his Dojo in Coventry.

i never went in the end and i regret it

Bonehead

That's just the IKMF instructors. There are more in different Krav Maga federations.
Do a bit of digging

This guy's in Devon. He's a mate of my instructor.
He's good. I've been to a day long seminar he runs and it was very useful
Jim Wagner's Reality Based Self Defence - Newton Abbott, Devon, South West UK

Deep Singh

From the sounds of it this seems like the style for me. My priority is to avoid trouble if at all possible. In that sense I'm unlikely to actually get into a 'semi arranged' fight ie I would walk away even if someone was hurling abuse at me. Years ago I wouldn't but now have way too much to lose, including my job.
So really I need something to help me if I am attacked ie randomly by a nutter or a mugger. In my experience ( of both unfortunately!) this is often a suprise attack and at this point I need to go from a point of disadvantage to neutralising the threat and getting the **** out of there as quickly as possible.
Krav SOUNDS like the best for this aim for ME. So its off to a class I'll go and post back how I got on!

Thanks for all the fantastic advice

Aaquil

Look if you want to know how to defend yourself against knives, guns, bats, kicks, punches, attacke on the ground and want to learn FASt the only way to go is Krav Maga.

No disrespect to karate, Tai, Wing chung, boxing, kick boxing but most scum carry knives around with tem and are not afraid to use them. Other than maybe Jui Jitsu, JKD and Aikido then nothing wil prepare you for an attack like Krav Maga and nothing will teach you so easily and quickly.

Even the other styles I have mentioned it will take quite a whilke to get to the level to be competent to defend against an armed assault.

I use the term defend very loosely as any attempt to defend against a knife/gun atack will be based upon circumstance and with a knife my instructor always says "Just accept sh*t happens you're going to get cut" but there is a major difference between having a chance and standing no chance.

I have done Shotokan, Kyokushinkai, Wado Ryu, Brazilian Jui Jitsu, Tai, grappling and JKD in the past so I do speak from a bit of experience.

If I had the time you know what I would do:

1. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
2. Jiu Jitsu.
3. Muay Tai.
4. Krav Maga.

Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)fighters do mainly Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Tai but as the founder of 'Commando Krav Maga' says (Moni Izak): "When on the street and on the ground you are not in a MMA competition". Sure do an arm bar on the guy but if he has a knife and pulls it on you he'll stick it in your ribs.

Do Krav Maga, Muay Tai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu that is the best Combo.
If any of the other arts worked in the ring the MMA would use them.

Aaquil

By the way Jim Wagner, Moni Izak, Avi Nardia, Amir Perets, Bas Rutten and don't forget good old Geoff Thompson are all guys worth checking out.

I hope that help...do something it is a very nasty world out there these day. Also continue to drill out any techniques you learn with a sparring partner so it comes natural.

njkmrs

Having read the posts here ,I feel it is a sad day when people have to train to deal with the possibility that scum will come their way and they need to be ready for it .

What is the world coming too ??

People should be training in these arts for the pleasure and fitness ,rather than the threat of being involved in something nasty .

Shame really .

Matteeboy

Thanks for this - I've emailed him.

warrenm2

dont misunderstand my comments on wing chun - I still say its the most effective (ok Im a little biased!)

Try YouTube - Wing Chun - military street brutal combat system fond memories!

Luan Pra bang

ok

Aaquil

krav maga has been used for years by the Israelis to defend against the constant threat they experience everyday. Weaponed assaults and people trying to kill them. It has been used in the field and proved very successful.

With all due respect to wing Chung it would not satnd up to an attacker determined to seriously damage or kill with a baseball bat, knife, machete or gun.

I am not saying that Krav maga is a miracle cure but to prepare you for the street on its own and the speed at which the techniques can be learnt nothing comes near it for the street.

As I stated before definitely do Muay Tai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well then you have by far the best combination.

Look at what was originally posted as the question.

w00t

This should limber you up a bit!

YouTube - Team Ryouko Demo Reel

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Snap -know where you are coming from

Krav Maga narrowly gets my vote at No 1 Deep Singh

Following closely behind
Tai Boxing - Kick Boxing
Ju Jitsu and Wing Chun also good.



People train hard at martial art X and get good. Then they are a confronted by a real life situation and have the sh_t kicked out of them perhaps by someone who is not as good as them with their fists.. Why.. because

1. They dont see it coming
2. They are not used to controlling their own fear (fear dosent exist its called adrenaline)
3. They dont know how to pull and push adrenaline out of the guy in front of them. When to be calm and passive and when to be as scary as f_ck.
4. And as mentioned what works in a controlled environment doesnt often work on the street.

Get No 1 right you won´t need number 2,3,4.

If you are up against it.
1. As mentioned, get the first blow in and make it count. It has to come out of no where. No matter how big some one is or how much adrenaline they have going through them a blow to the side of the head in the right place will put them down. The action of the brain hitting the side of the skull - is what causes people to black out.
(Throat is very good but can be harder to get at and not quite as quick as the knock out. Knee in the ***** - well in reality you will probly not make full contact and hit the thighs)
OK stage two
2. Ok you havent managed this. The guy comes at you. Learn to counter punch. Get out the way and then wack. My best mate who I am not proud to say was a very very good street fighter back in the day - who regularly took blokes out twice his size was a master at this.
Stage three - you have really f_cked it and now you are in a full blown fight. which is really the place you dont want to be as everyone gets hurt in a fight.
3. Sheer brutality will win the day. As simple as that. Forget about putting techniques together it will be too quick and messy. Every thing has to instinctive and this is where you kick boxing or whatever will come into its own.As if you have trained hard you will be able to put together a string of techniques without thinking about it. You have to train to fight on your feet and on the floor. As I know the floor is not a good place to be but the reality is many fights do end upon the floor.

As you can see martial arts were only mentioned in the last point. Most people tend to ignore all the important stuff above and concentrate on their martial art. Which undoubtly is usefull but only part of the picture and the last part of the street fighting equasion.

Steve