I think the reason why that particular cone filter is situated in the engine bay is that it is simply too large to be fitted in the wing, where it would no doubt receive a better supply of cooler air.

 

Talking of temp probes to monitor charge temp...

I have made a system that has 4 probes (oh er..) whats the best way to put them in the fmic tubing? pushing them under the hose seems a pants way of doing it...???

 

I have only seen one pic where someone was measuring inlet temps post I/C. They had drilled a small hole in the little piece of silicon hosing that fits between the I/C and throttle body and placed the sensor there.

I'm sure other people will be able to suggest a few other ideas.

 

Under the IC hose works perfectly fine for me - if the probe is thin enough the seal is unaffected and it gets the temperature of the air charge going into the engine.

The scoop problem on classics from what I have heard (i dont own one so dont know the facts) is when over 120mph.

 

I am just worried about air leaking, and also possible the probe becoming detached and getting into the pipework... what sort of pressure is generated in the pipes? enough to lift the probe vertical up the tubing and disterously into the inlet manifold..

 

Andy F doesn't appear to have any doubts about the performance of a tmic or concerns that the airflow may deflect over the scoop at 120mph...or even 160

 

This is an old pic of Andy car. His car no longer runs with an intercooler at all! He uses methanol race fuel as this has a cooling effect on the charge temp when mixed with air.

 

Think you'll find this is very much Andy F's latest spec... pic. taken today at Elvington where he did a 9.3 @ 155 before rain stopped play iirc.

Here's a few more...

 

??

 

Where would one get one of the better charge temp gauges?

BTW, i'm with you dynamix. A lot of mis-info/guidance.

 

This looks considerably different to the pic of his engine on his site.

AndyForrestPerformance

I understand his engine is in continual development.

 

Andy F's car is a Drag car. Turn it over for five minutes, run a 9 sec pass, back down to the pits turn it off. You cant compare this car to a daily or even a weekend toy. Doubt there is much heat soak when travelling at 160mph+, notice the inner wings have been cut back to aide in weight loss and cooling. His turbo sits at the front of the engine and will receive plenty of cold air to try and keep it cool for a few secs.
I have fitted a FMIC to my car and have found no issues with lag but have noticed that in stop start traffic that the oil temps are lower possibly due to the removal of the TMIC allowing the hot air to escape through the scoop.

John

 

I made mine from bits from Maplin (LCD display, probes, and switches!)

Anyone else with ideas of probe locations?

 

Read the article in Japanese Performance Magazine Jan'07 page 122 it clearly explains alot and shows the difference between the Standard TMIC, a quality Hyperflow TMIC and Scoobyclinic's FMIC.

 

lol - not really, but then I thought we had covered this.

Do you have a charge temp gauge? - I guess that you dont as you do not feel able to answer that simple question.

What make FMIC is yours?
What impact has it had on ACTUAL charge temps?

 

Has the Litchfield T25? I would of thought if there was ever a need for a Charge temp gauge this would need one, esp with those kind of power figures and a TMIC . It's not listed on the options list
Type25

415bhp @ 6,500rpm (400bhp from 5,800rpm − 7,000rpm)
570Nm / 420lbft @ 3,800rpm (300lbft from 3,000rpm)

 

So I take that as a no then LOL

But why let facts get in the way of your opinions


The Lichfields car would have been developed with that information at hand and used to ensure that the pieces they were putting together were within acceptable ranges. I wonder why they dont feel the need to go FMIC

 

What do you mean not really? The comparisions are on the same car, same day, same rolling road etc. This is not a comparison between my car and yours, they are very different, it is a comparison between TMIC's and FMIC's thats what the original post is is asking.

No I do not have a Charge temp gauge, I don't think there is a need for one on my car at this stage.
I have a HKS Fmic and Ecutek remap. The car no longer suffers from heat soak or fluctuations in boost due to kot weather etc.
< < < ENGINE TUNER > > > DYNO GRAPH P1

 

Because the car is built as a road going production model that can be service by any main dealer, meaning Items like the air filter can be replaced at service intervals by any dealer.

What facts?

 

How do you 'know' ?

 

LOL are you really for real. Litchfields used a TMIC so they could use the OEM air box so the owners could get it serviced by any main dealer.

Brilliant

 

Because they were monitored during mapping. Also there is no knock or det. Then car was also run very hard out on the road whilst everything was monitored and recorded by the laptop to get a real world of how the car would perform on the road before again being put back on the rollers and fine adjustments made.

 

You think different? They were trying to produce a car with a wide apeaal that could also be used as a daily driver. Retaining the ability to return to a main dealer for servicing helps attract customers.
"These clients often already had a number of supercars in their collection including the likes of GT3s, Ferraris, Zonda and even McLarens. They would use these for special occasions or track days and a Cayanne or X5 for family duties. Many found the desire for something in between, a car that can be used daily, is practical, easy to live with and still a thrill to drive. The Type−25 fitted the bill perfectly."
Type25

 

No, they used a TMIC because it was up to the job. Which is the whole point of the thread. Litchfield's and Powerstation think the STi TMIC is up to the job for a road car, occasional track car at the T25 power level (415bhp, 420lb/ft). The fact that it retains the OEM look is a bonus but if it wasn't up to the task it wouldn't have been left.

Which is exactly what Dynamix has been saying, people think that changing to a cheap FMIC will benefit them without even checking charge temps before the change. The OEM equipment may already do the job well enough (more so for newage cars).

Do you know what the optimal charge temp is.... how do you know that your FMIC and its ambient charge temps isn't delivery a temp that is below the ideal charge temp (atomisation of fuel etc has an impact on this, not just how dense and cool the air air).

Tony.

 

In that case - they were monitoring INLET TEMPS from the factory sensor around the MAF. This is BEFORE it has gone through the turbo and BEFORE it has gone through the intercooler.

But... acording to your mis-guided logic there is no point having cold air going in as it all gets to the same temperature anyway once gone through the turbo.

A charge temp gauge measures the air AFTER these. I have yet to see one that will input into Delta Dash unfortunately as I would love to log mine alongside the data logging that I do. But I have to make do with an SPA Design gauge that records and recalls peaks.

I am sure it hadnt any knock or Det - it would be a really bad mapper that tuned it with any there.

 

Sorry to revive this old thread but have only just spotted it....We have recently carried out tests on a 22b with a Garrett hybrid unit and a Simtek ecu which not only monitors charge temp but also carries out compensations based on it...
Running a modest 1.3 bar on the standard STi3/4 topmount charge temps were low 30's (10 degrees above ambient at the time) following a 5 mins cruise on a hot engine , these jumped to the mid 50's following a short burst of acceleration through 3rd and 4th..By this time the ECU was already sutracting 5 degrees of ignition..

Fitting it with a front mount the cruising charge temps on the engine from a hot standstill dropped to the low 20's (at the time roughly ambient temp) and you could paste it till you were blue in the face they never climbed beyond the mid 30's..There was also no noticible increase in lag (The very discerning owner intends hillclimbing it and is very happy with how it performs)..

The STi 8 unit is very capable on the right turbo but will never be a match for a good quality front mount...

 

I am presuming you fitted a FMIC that is slightly better than the fleabay specials Martyn?

Mine is exactly at ambient on cruise on the STI TMIC but does rise to approx ambient + 15-20C for track use. I dont doubt that these peaks would be lower or allow a further state of tune with a bigger turbo if a good quality FMIC was fitted though.

 

We did , although we have proven that the Autobahn front mount kit is good enough for 450hp and that isnt what you would call expensive....