jonc

What a well thought out reasoned arguement

AllTalk

I thought so too

Leslie

You may be right in some respects but the point is, holding up the rates under the Conservatives during a world recession and during their recovery from the financial mess which was left by the previous Labour governments is an unfair example and is as relevant as how the parlous state of the country under those previous Labour governments made it so difficult for the Conservatives to recover without having to control inflation with the interest rates as they were. When NL came into power, the economy was on an even keel with much of the National Debt paid off, adequate gold reserves and taxes were still within reason. Inflation and the base rate were down also.

All this has been frittered away and although it may appear so far that the economy is good, it is built on excessive borrowing and cheap interest encouraging people to run up huge debts on their credit cards and thus making shop sales look good. It is all a house of cards and the IMF is not happy!

The truth is, socialism is a very expensive form of government as was demonstrated by Wilson, Callaghan, and Billy Boy and we shall eventually see how much it is going to cost us in the comparatively near future. We have enormous sums to pay off just on PFI over many years in the future.

Not one of you NL supporters has yet been able to explain why Flash has flogged half of our gold reserves for a pitiful price wasting £2 billion of our money to boot! If Flash is such a star on the economy, why has he done this?

Les

AllTalk

Les

Lets just get this straight - what you are trying to get us to swallow is that the Economic mess the Tories got the country into was due to 'World Forces' and nothing could be done?

But, when it suits you, and it happens to be Labour in Government - then those same 'World Forces' have no effect whatsoever, it is entirely the ineptitude of the Administration?

Your argument holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket

TelBoy

Let's be clear, AllTalk, when the UK was enduring singeing interest rates, the USA was too. Both countries in the shape of Thatcher and Reagan were faced with reigning in public spending from previous administrations to bring runaway interest rates under control. This time it's different. The UK and USA are not going through the economic cycle at the same time, so if the UK does have to suffer another round of interest rate rises, i'm afraid it will be harder to lay the blame on anyone other than what's gone before in the UK. Converesely, i'll admit, if they don't go up by much or at all, then somehow we'll have got away with it. The next five years will reveal all.

AllTalk

Got away with it??

Why can you not say that Labour will have done a fantastic job - you see my point?

When things go wrong - it's Labours fault .. if they actually go well, we have been 'lucky'

Leslie

The asnwer you give shows that you do not understand what I said, or that you have not read my post properly. You may even be blocking what you do not wish to see from your mind!

Incidentally-why did Flash flog off half our gold reserves?

Les

AllTalk

Les

I have done a google search on Governments losing all our reserves and all I can find is when the Tories tried to prop up the pound, is that what you are on about? Why do you call Thatcher 'Flash'?

This is what I could find, not sure if it helps your question or not?

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"The absurd thing was that some officials knew the game was up at 8.10am that day. But at the insistence of the Prime Minister (Thatcher) they intervened to support the pound when they should simply have said enough was enough.

Incidentally, for all the loose talk surrounding the 'cost' of Black Wednesday, the Treasury papers broadly confirm what we already knew. But it was even worse than that.

I recall asking an official at the time whether it was true that we had spent most of the reserves. 'Most?' he replied, with the clear implication that we had lost the lot.

In fact the Bank of England, on instructions from the Tory Government, sold $28 billion of reserves on Black Wednesday alone, making the loss in August and September nearly $40bn.

We not only lost the lot, we borrowed a further $16bn!"

----------------------------------------------------------

Is this what you are looking for Les?

OllyK

Your google skills seem rather weak, let me help...
Brown lost £2bn selling UK's gold-News-Politics-TimesOnline
Goldfinger Brown’s £2 billion blunder in the bullion market-News-Politics-TimesOnline
Brown 'ignored warnings over sale of gold reserves' - Independent Online Edition > UK Politics
Brown's gold sale cost UK £2bn - Independent Online Edition > UK Politics
Brown to sell half UK gold reserves
Scotsman.com Business - Brown's gold sale losses pile up as bullion price surges
World Gold Council > value > Gold News > Gold reserve sell-off deemed 'a mistake'

AllTalk

Only £2Billion?

Thats what I did wrong - GOOGLE clearly thought the Tory losses of £58Billion, yes £58Billion - and 20 years earlier a bigger disaster!

My google skills seem perfect

Leslie

You still don't understand the point that is being made do you!

Les

jonc

If you're gonna quote an article, at least quote it correctly!!! It was Major and not Thatcher that was in power at the time. Plus the net loss was £3.3bn

William Keegan: Black Wednesday gets a whitewash | Special Reports | Guardian Unlimited Politics

"So the official line now - I heard Major echoing Budd on the wireless - is that ERM membership was a great triumph, eliminated inflation from the system, and led to a British economic miracle.

Some people say it was not Black Wednesday but White Wednesday, because of what eventually followed. The truth is that it was Black Wednesday, but followed by a series of White ones. "

"An important consequence of Black Wednesday is that it transformed Gordon Brown's view of the ERM and the prospect of joining the single currency, on which he had been very keen. Britain has the best of both worlds in the opportunity to remain in the European Union by signing up to the constitutional treaty without any obligation to join the deflation-orientated eurozone. "

AllTalk

I understand that the Tories - whichever way you cut it - lost MORE money 20 years ago than what you are in a ding-dong about with the current incumbents ..... why are you so selective?

Jye

pslewis

So?

Where were we?

SJ_Skyline

7 pages, 196 posts...

Job well done I think Peter

TelBoy

Well we've established that you as "AllTalk" don't actually understand the fundamental economic principles of Socialism. So no change there then.

Gordon_Brown

Alltalk speaks perfect sense. PM me chap, I think you would work well being a member of my cabinet.

Leslie

Now you are talking-one can only say true to form! Why did you flog off those gold reserves by the way? Please make all clear to that chap who cannot grasp the fundamentals before he enters your employ.

Les