Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Cheaper than V power alone, eh? So apart from the hassle of actually measuring it out and remembering to put it in a fill up time, it's cheap power, yes? Certainly cheaper than mods to get there on pump fuel? I'm guessing that it would have to be mapped for it as well meaning that on long trips, having a can of methanol in the boot is a necessity?

F

hypoluxa

I don't think I have misled anyone. How much detail do you want? If I had used race fuel or perhaps placed the IT probe a little too close to the manifold then yes, that would be misleading.

Perhaps we could also have a thread titled "how much power from a VF35 on the worst fuel I can buy with naff mods and crap mapping"? but what would be the point?

Yes I do - otherwise I would be a dyno Queen, and again the figures would be misleading and unrepresentative. I have a built motor so that boost is nothing and is actually the lowest boost I have run since it was stock back in 2000. As Andy mentions, Methanol is much cheaper than V Power so why not?

Detail alert... I use a Robinson's Apple & Blackcurrant 3L bottle for the methanol

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Jase,

Thanks, the extra detail does explain why the extra power has come from.

Methanol is oxygenated, so is very similar to some race fuels, in that respect, and will allow power beyond the physical ability of the turbo alone.

I don't suppose it's anymore misleading than someone quoting power figures, and omitting they were achieved using nitrous ?

So I guess when people are claiming BHP figures way beyond what would normally be expected for a particular set up, in this case a VF35, which let's face it, is only a 475cfm/33lb flow turbo, it helps the less experienced readers to have the results explained a little deeper.


Mark.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Detail? Well anything that can lift power up 34BHP from your V Power pump fuel figures would be nice Race fuel, well 3 litres of methanol could be considered a race mixture to me

Yes we could, but I was trying to be reasonably fair to the gullible mases, who might read your headline figures from your first figure, without realising that they would perhaps find it difficult to get close on pump fuel IYSWIM.

F

Andy.F

Floyd

To gain the maximum benefit from adding Methanol then you need to map for it.
If you then run out, you could keep a bottle of NF in the boot as that would do 2x tankfulls and maintain the octane at a safe level. Power output would be slightly lower though as you lose the oxygen content and the car would be running richer than mapped.

Andy

hypoluxa

Now that is misleading You can't compare nitrous with a 6% methanol mix! If you are then I suggest asking for a refund from your nitrous supplier

Not much point giving details if people don't read them, 356hp was achieved on 'plain Super UL' ie 97Ron, not V Power. You're misleading people

Would you consider petrol + Millers, Proboost or NF a 'race mixture'?

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

V power, yeah sorry but I think Mark and I agree that we will agree to differ with you on your ambiguos posts.

No, not race fuel and I haven't seen NF producing those gains anyway.

F

pat

I would consider a 75BHP gain "comparable" to the gains you might net from moderate nitrous jetting. That was the gain that a 10% methanol mix netted over road fuel on an engine that was running 450 originally and ended up at 525BHP with the 10% methanol mix. The reason for the unusually high gain had nothing to do with the octane enhancing properties of methanol, nor is it down to the oxygen content (work it out for 10%, it's not going to yield 16% gain), but it effected a shift in the turbine power balance.

It achieved what many might consider impossible: the mass flow rate of the engine at the same operating point was raised with no mechanical changes. Don't ever underestimate the influence that fuel can have!

Cheers,

Pat.

hypoluxa

Yes I would agree with that example, but that is very different to my 34bhp gain (due to one mechanical modification and switching from SUL to V Power with a 6% Meth mix)

If we surmise that my mechanical mod increased bhp by 5 (it may have decreased it, but i am an optimist ) and the switch to V power gave at least an additional 10, that leaves by my calculation 19bhp.

I am not aware of any nitrous kits that will give you a ~19bhp gain on a turbocharged engine. Are you?

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

19BHP is still a significant gain for any mod and worth detailing IMO. Some original PPP kits produced 20BHP and you wouldn't leave that detail out!

Is it legal to run methanol on the road and what about VAT etc?

F

Andy.F

It's probably as legal as running a decat exhaust, but much less likely to be noticed !

Andy

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I thought a decat was legal if you can still pass emissions at MOT time?

I'm not raising it as a problem, rather I just need to know where I stand if I did

F

hypoluxa

You pay VAT at point of purchase. As it's used as a fuel 'additive' no fuel duty is required. That's my theory anyway

I believe a decat is illegal whether it passes emissions or not.?

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

Where do you buy Methanol from?
Is there any negative effects to running a Methonal mix?

I'm thinking i may get my car mapped for a Methonal mix next time after reading this thread, Would a 10:1 (10 litres Tesco 99 to 1 litre methonal) mix be a good ratio?

With this should i be able to get over 370bhp with my VF34?

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

Anybody

GazTheHat

Jungle juice costs the same as VPower, or there abouts, so there's no price increase, (apart from remap - if you want the most). Just hastle when filling.

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

Is this the stuff to use?
eBay.co.uk: Biodiesel Methanol bio diesel *** 25L *** 99.85% purity (item 330096653699 end time 18-Mar-07 17:03:33 GMT)

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Dean you are best off ordering it from jennychem, it will cost you £35 all in for a 25ltr drum, which should be good for a few tankfuls.
I was recommended to use 4.5 ltrs of methanol for every tankful.

Banny

harvey

iTrader: (48)

If you are going to mess about with methanol, just remember that you have to run a much lower AFR to avoid high combustion temperatures and whereas stoich is 14.7 with petrol it is around 13.9 with a 10% methanol mix.
Fail to get the AFRs right and it could be a very expensive experience.

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

So as long as i get the car mapped for it (by Andy F) and keep to the same mixture all the time, it should be ok??

moto

Sorry to be boring here guys, but be very careful how you handle methanol. Its seriously nasty stuff and can ignite with an invisible flame! You should wear saftey glasses and gloves as a minimum when handling. Have a look here.

Chemical Safety Data: Methanol

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

IIRC Strictly speaking, the MOT just means the car passed the emissions test at the time of testing. If you get pulled for a roadside check, you'll get busted in the same way as if you get pulled with a dodgy brake light you wouldn't be able to argue "well it got past the MOT, officer"

But they'll only require that you get the problem fixed and go for another MOT emissions check, which you'll pass the same way as you did the last time.

I just got a Sports cat: can't be dealing with the hassle!

ns04

Andy.F

I wouldn't recommend anyone to "mess around with Methanol" however when you add it in controlled dosages to your fuel and then ideally you map for Methanol you may decide not to richen the mixture. You may choose to advance the ignition timing instead or possibly a combination of both. Methanol has a significant cooling effect on the combustion chamber. After timing optimisation in conjunction with a faster burn then it is normal to see an increase in power and a reduction in exhaust gas temperatures.
AFR is only a very small part of the picture.

The only time methanol burns invisibly is if you have it isolated in a clean metal dish. Otherwise you can certainly see the flames as it colourfully burns whatever the flame is in contact with..... just like petrol does. The plus point with methanol however is that you simply throw some water on it and it instantly goes out

Andy

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

So, no water injection then!

F