Nido

Lol!

Where I live in Spain there are very nice pavements, lots of street lighting, our bins are emptied every day, lots of police, nice hospital, medical care to put the UK to shame, beaches are cleaned daily, VAT is lower, tax (in general) is lower, economy isn't built on personal debt (not may have Credit cards for example), the weather is stunning (ok can't blame NL for that one ) and quality of life is in a different league.


Downsides? The social security payments are higher, and there is no benefits system as such. Is that such a bad thing though
The local (town hall etc) corruption can get a bit tiresome, but it doesn't really affect me. Where I work I have three languages to contend with as well (Spanish, Valenciano and Castillion) which is a royal PITA!

I wouldn't change living here for a moment

gatty

where in spain are you and how is the building trade doing? i'm on me way.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Is that like Sevilla or Malaga or something like that?

Then again that scandal in Palma was quite a laugh!

pslewis

Yeah, sure you are ..... just waiting .... and waiting .... and waiting .... and waiting

Don't shut the door - just shut your moaning mouth!

Nido

Work takes me from North of Valencia down to around Almeria, I live somewhere in between these two depending on how much work I'm doing in a particular place (three or places i stay in).

Building trade (in terms of Construction) is a huge part of the economy - however they can't keep building at the rate they do, it will have to tail off sometime. Building work (in terms of reforming) will always be busy as people are always chopping and changing thier houses (planning permission for extensions etc is a lot more flexible) and some of the quality of the big property companies (Atlas, Masa etc) leves a lot to be desired so there is constant work sorting those place out

Not in the indusrty myself though so don't know how much cash thier is in it in terms of wages! I do have to arrange building work some times though, and the Spanish usually undercut the British builders by quite a margin - but as said the quality of thier work can be dubious! As always you pays yer money and you takes yer choice

gatty

cheers mate i love the almeria area ,not a spain fan really but it beats this sh it hole anyday.

Shark Man

I have to agree that construction in this part of the world is in a huge boom, things are being flung up at a huge rate. The speed at which things are being built puts some of the UK's large snail-like building projects to shame (cough, Bull ring, cough M6 Toll road ).

There are two type of spanish builders: ones who are perfectionists, or ones who used to be waiters/farmers. Not to mention the ones who just employ any freshly landed Morrocan regardless of they can build or not, then not bother checking up on their workmanship.

Most are the latter and are hopeless, but when you find a good one; their work is superb. Like British plumbers, finding a good one is hard, and the bad ones give them a bad reputation.

I have to agree, alot of the stuff built for/by Masa/Atlas etc. is pure junk, cheap junk in some cases, but not that well built and furnished with the cheapest and nastiest materials you can buy. Still, if anyone wants to move into these ugly "little Englands" which most of these devolpments are, they are welcome. Call me a snob, but from those who I have met, I wouldn't want those types of people anywhere near me. Although with the rate of building going on coupled with mass UK emmigration, I fear it is unavoidable.

Funny though, every English tradesman, bar three that I have met here seems to be appear more dodgy than a bloke selling BMW wheels whilst stood next to a BMW on bricks. If you get my drift.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

No where is perfect. People do move abroad with false hopes.
However.
The quality of life in Britain has slowly detoriated. If you dont realise this then you are either very young and dont realise any better or have your head in the sand and need to get out a bit more.

Agree with Shark Man
Where I am the grass IS also greener too

People get used to life in the Uk and think the rest of the western world is like this. Wrong. 5.5 million have left - there is a reason for that. Yes some will try to renovate remote farm houses and not integrate with the local community and come back with their tails between their legs.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

In Portugal there has been a increasing social asymmetry over the last decade.

If you look at the last 30 years of history in Spain and Portugal the Spanish have evolved massively and we (Tugas) have been lagging behind in many sectors thanks to inept and corrupt governments.

We should have kept a good pace, but it was not meant to be, meanwhile the Spanish are tagged to overtake Germany in the next decade or so....

Things here for ex-pats are good as long as you don't get too mixed up with the local confusion.

Still working here can be frustrating, but nonetheless, I will not trade it for anything else!

unclebuck

280 lbs of waddlesome sloth attempts to speak it's 'mind'. Thank god I'll be leaving the likes of you behind. You epitomise the ignorant brit scum that will never go anywhere because they haven't the brain power or the ambition to manage it. Crawl back under your broken down Micra where you belong.

Nido

Yep, isn't it a bloody nightmare The biggest problem I have (work wise) is finding honest, hard working people to employ. I know that's not easy anywhere, but as you say Shark Man the vast majority of British tradesmen here are just like your analogy. All they want to do is earn enough to get bladdered in thier local bar seven nights a week. And the amount you see sitting in the bar at lunchtimes How can you do a decent afternoons work after 5 pints of beer??!!?

I have resorted to bringing over staff I can trust from the UK, unfortunately it's the only way I can see.


The amount of people you see moving to Spain, spending all thier equity in the local bar and moving back to the UK 12/24 months later is astounding. They think it's going to be a constant holiday, and of course it's not

Bills still have to paid, tax still has to be paid (have my final quarter IVA and tax bill to pay this coming week ) so half of them work without paying social etc, then moan when they get caught and fined huge amounts

All said and done though I wouldn't change being here for anything, it was 22deg C here last week This weekend has not been too clever mind.... rain for the first time in 6 weeks!

Brendan Hughes

The Portuguese are also not very business-minded, they don't have a clue that negotiation from an original price can be a win-win situation. As such, the client walks off and buys from a Spanish firm instead, while the Portuguese sit there making no sales, go to the wall, and whine about the Spanish invasion.

Nido

Very good point - it is amazing that although the Spanish are seen to be relaxed and a bit "slow" when it comes to moving forwards, their progression over the last 30 odd years has been pretty impressive. Let's not forget that it was only 1975 when the 36 year reign of Franco ended. That's only 33 years ago that this country was a dictatorship - pretty impressive progress really

Strange how the disparity with Portugal seems to get greater and greater, never seems to reduce

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

I agree with some of that.

More and more locals go across the border to buy food, fuel, building materials, and the Spanish go the extra mile and deliver across the border!

They have the key to the future of Europe, in a way.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Things are getting to the point in Portugal where for any silly violation, fine, or dividend the "law" literally kicks down your door and starts taking stuff from your home to pay it off!

10 years ago it would not have been thinkable!

Makes you wonder, but then again living in Somalia is worse!

Nido

Move over the border mate??!!??

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Don't tempt me!

There might be social differences but the Spaniards and Portuguese are more similar than most ppl think!

Life is still bearable, and things will change!

Nido

Just out of interest, sounds like you live quite near to the Spanish border, do the locals just speak Portugese or do they speak Spanish as well???

pslewis

Thats right, 280lbs - it's not the only area in which I am vastly superior to you .........

Mr Dreamer

Mr Moaner

Mr Loooooooooooooooooser ...........

Mr 'One Day' ...

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Portuguese and Spanish are similar, but Portuguese being the more complex language, if you want to call it that, makes it easier for us to understand and speak Spanish.

In fact Spanish, Italian, and French are quite easy for us to pick up.

Contrary to those who are natural to those languages. Our language is a pain in the bottom to learn, I might even say that is nearly as bad as Greek!

You have to give up many conventions when you adopt this language, but when you get the hang of it, it is great!

Nido

Isn't only something like one in ten words mean the same though (between Spanish and Portugese)? A Brazillian girl I know here I can't converse with in Spanish at all, she hasn't a clue what I'm on about! I keep thinking of trying to pick the (Portugese) language up, but I just confuse it with my Spanish all the time - I'd rather they were totally different I think!

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Brazilian and Portuguese are similar but the accent is a killer!!!

unclebuck

Must try a lot harder than that Trolley Man. You sound like a really bad poor man's immitation of Clarkson. Did you manage to make the gesture as you typed the post?? Probably a bit difficult for someone with the communication difficulties you have.

Suresh

According to the 2005 EIU survey (The Economist), which looked at real criteria, Britain was in 29th position with France in 26th.


I left the UK IN 1993, when unemployment was around 10%, interest rates were more than double what they are now. Negative equity was common, the NHS was an under-funded disaster (as opposed to an over-funded one), football hooliganism was out of control, Britain had just been booted out of the ERM, the IRA were regularly bombing London and men were getting gay raped on London tube trains.

Can anyone remind me who was in power back then as I can't remember.? Clue: it wasn't Blair and his cronies


About the only thing that hasn't improved since then is that the Daily Mail is still a Tory rag!

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

OMG it is true!

Leslie

The reason that unemployment appears to be low is that NL has built up an enormous top heavy bureaucracy which is incompetent and largely useless and is paying for it by screwing us in to ground with stealth taxes. They hope of course that all these civil servants etc will vote for them to keep their jobs. The figures are also fiddled with the use of the Jobseeker Allowance scheme.

How will you feel PSL if Flash decides to accept the NL quango's report on taxes saying that this country is not "equal" enough and that middle and upper Britain should be taxed an extra £6000 annually on average to even it all out?
That will hit you between the eyes if you really are paid £120k as a consultant with an increase of £30k since last year!

Les

Diesel

Greek's not hard - no nasty grammar rules & verbs easier to conjugate than Spanish. Go Slavic if you like a challenge, comerade

Flatcapdriver

Apart from the massive liberising influence of King Juan Carlos, the major reason for this disparity has been Spain's success at the negotiating table resulting in a massive 8 billion euro subsidy a few years ago, which totally eclipses the share of Portugal.

As someone else has also pointed out, the construction industry has largely fuelled the economic boom to the extent that there is so much speculative developments that you just know that its all going to come to a crashing halt - its simply not sustainable.

Leslie

I quite agree.

Les

Drunken Bungle Whore

Look at the positives here folks:

1. All the Daily Mail readers will now leave the country
2. And so will Uncle Buck!


Now there's a couple of fine incentives to stay!