Why did the impreza come standard with a TMIC ?
10 January 2007, 04:47 PM
#61
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An FMIC with the reversed inlet manifold made from magnesium from RCMS 
Now that would be nice
But I'll stick with the TMIC. The STI TMIC is very efficient. I believe the APS TMIC is slightly better still.
Now that would be nice
But I'll stick with the TMIC. The STI TMIC is very efficient. I believe the APS TMIC is slightly better still.
10 January 2007, 05:00 PM
#62
I really am amazed that no real company has set out to make a reversed inlet manifold conversion kit to accompany a FMIC. Perhaps they aren't brave enough? 
I know the likes of Andy have done it, but these are one off fabrications, and there are a few companied in teh USA that make/convert them, but nothing as a complete install. A relocated alternator, coolant header tank, delete PAS and A/C, reversed inlet manfiold, rotated turbo, and radiator mods would allow a much neater setup using only a fraction more pipework than a TMIC.
I know the likes of Andy have done it, but these are one off fabrications, and there are a few companied in teh USA that make/convert them, but nothing as a complete install. A relocated alternator, coolant header tank, delete PAS and A/C, reversed inlet manfiold, rotated turbo, and radiator mods would allow a much neater setup using only a fraction more pipework than a TMIC.
10 January 2007, 05:04 PM
#63
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10 January 2007, 05:06 PM
#64
The APS TMIC is one of the biggest heaps of sh1te ive ever tested!!
Gets hot, stays hot, and gets even hotter. How people like WRC market it as an upgrade i will never ever know. The APS frontmount is very good however but their topmount is junk.
10 January 2007, 05:09 PM
#65
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That has shocked me mate. I've been led to believe that it was of high quality.
Is there an aftermarket TMIC would you recommend then?
10 January 2007, 05:34 PM
#66
STI 7 onwards and nothing else. IMO..
Inless you had a bespoke item made with thin walled end tanks and a very very efficient core id be supprised if you could better the stock item.
For the size/position contraints of the intrcooler position the STI topmount is a fantastic bit of kit.
Go and data log one and then log another topmount.. see for yourself and be amazed.
10 January 2007, 05:45 PM
#67
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STI 7 onwards and nothing else. IMO..
Inless you had a bespoke item made with thin walled end tanks and a very very efficient core id be supprised if you could better the stock item.
For the size/position contraints of the intrcooler position the STI topmount is a fantastic bit of kit.
Go and data log one and then log another topmount.. see for yourself and be amazed.
Inless you had a bespoke item made with thin walled end tanks and a very very efficient core id be supprised if you could better the stock item.
For the size/position contraints of the intrcooler position the STI topmount is a fantastic bit of kit.
Go and data log one and then log another topmount.. see for yourself and be amazed.
But I have been led to believe that the APS TMIC was supposed to a quality piece of kit. I am considering a larger volume TMIC in order to hold boost for longer in the higher RPM range.
10 January 2007, 05:50 PM
#68
I agree with you on the efficiency of the STi TMIC mate. I have a MY06 Spec C so can vouch for that
But I have been led to believe that the APS TMIC was supposed to a quality piece of kit. I am considering a larger volume TMIC in order to hold boost for longer in the higher RPM range.
But I have been led to believe that the APS TMIC was supposed to a quality piece of kit. I am considering a larger volume TMIC in order to hold boost for longer in the higher RPM range.
Im interested. Your turbo will be your limiting factor and currently there is not a bolt on replacement twinscroll for the JDM sti engine.
So if you want to hold boost for longer you are probably running the turbo outside its effiency zone, therefore creating too much heat in the little VF37 and trying to combat it with a larger cooler.
10 January 2007, 05:56 PM
#69
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Do you mind posting a spec of your car and its mods then. How much boost is it running?
Im interested. Your turbo will be your limiting factor and currently there is not a bolt on replacement twinscroll for the JDM sti engine.
So if you want to hold boost for longer you are probably running the turbo outside its effiency zone, therefore creating too much heat in the little VF37 and trying to combat it with a larger cooler.
Im interested. Your turbo will be your limiting factor and currently there is not a bolt on replacement twinscroll for the JDM sti engine.
So if you want to hold boost for longer you are probably running the turbo outside its effiency zone, therefore creating too much heat in the little VF37 and trying to combat it with a larger cooler.
I am in the initial stages of buying parts and planning the route I want to go. I want to retain the TMIC as the 12ltr tank in the boot would go to waste
plus I just don't want the hassle of going down the FMIC route.As reagrds the turbo, I am either considering hybridising it or going for the VF42 as fitted on the S204. I believe it's similar in size to the VF22 but utilises twin scroll, roller bearing technology.
I want to create as much efficiency as possible, even if it's only a slight improvement over stock. That's why I'm considering a larger volume TMIC.
10 January 2007, 06:00 PM
#70
The S204 still runs the STI topmount..
Get yourself an ACT gauge from RB motorsport and monitor the charge temps yourself.
Mocom Racing does the same kit but with an adapter to fit it directly into the stock impreza manifold.. plug & play
Get yourself an ACT gauge from RB motorsport and monitor the charge temps yourself.
Mocom Racing does the same kit but with an adapter to fit it directly into the stock impreza manifold.. plug & play
10 January 2007, 06:34 PM
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10 January 2007, 07:28 PM
#74
Hmm,alot of interesting reasoning there guys.
why is the STI TMIC any better than the WRX one then, is it a bigger style, more fins etc ?
for us mere classic owners, how do we go about fitting a good TMIC then, just get an STI of same age, as mine is slanted and the later ones are straight.
why is the STI TMIC any better than the WRX one then, is it a bigger style, more fins etc ?
for us mere classic owners, how do we go about fitting a good TMIC then, just get an STI of same age, as mine is slanted and the later ones are straight.
10 January 2007, 08:03 PM
#75
The Rig,
You will find the cores are better on the STI Newage ones as well as any size differences. I presume from your last post you have a classic (hence the slanty remark)? If so, the Newage STI can be fitted as far as I know, but some work to get it to fit is required.
You will find the cores are better on the STI Newage ones as well as any size differences. I presume from your last post you have a classic (hence the slanty remark)? If so, the Newage STI can be fitted as far as I know, but some work to get it to fit is required.
10 January 2007, 08:46 PM
#76
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Those complaining about the Subaru TMIC have clearly not spent enough time looking at what ideas some other performance turbo cars have employed over the past 15 years!
11 January 2007, 04:51 AM
#77
As you are a highly respected tuner, im interested to know your thoughts of what you beIive the limitations of the STI topmount are?
Last edited by frayz; 11 January 2007 at 04:57 AM.
11 January 2007, 12:39 PM
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11 January 2007, 01:59 PM
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STI 7 onwards and nothing else. IMO..
Inless you had a bespoke item made with thin walled end tanks and a very very efficient core id be supprised if you could better the stock item.
For the size/position contraints of the intrcooler position the STI topmount is a fantastic bit of kit.
Go and data log one and then log another topmount.. see for yourself and be amazed.
Inless you had a bespoke item made with thin walled end tanks and a very very efficient core id be supprised if you could better the stock item.
For the size/position contraints of the intrcooler position the STI topmount is a fantastic bit of kit.
Go and data log one and then log another topmount.. see for yourself and be amazed.
11 January 2007, 02:32 PM
#81
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I know there are concerns on here about the length of the pipework having an adverse effect on lag, but those who have quality kits fitted say that this concern is greatly overstated and the effects are barely noticable.
For 800 quid you could get a hybrid FMIC supplied and fitted. Surely IF you are going to spend that kind of money upgrading, it's a no brainer?
Ns04
11 January 2007, 04:11 PM
#82
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But why would you spend that much on a TMIC, which -if I understand it- is always going to have the inherent problem of heatsoak AND in any case it's effectiveness is limited by how much air actually gets to it, which depends on aerodynamics of the bonnet and scoop at high speed (a known problem with scoobies untill the bonnet was redesigned).
I know there are concerns on here about the length of the pipework having an adverse effect on lag, but those who have quality kits fitted say that this concern is greatly overstated and the effects are barely noticable.
For 800 quid you could get a hybrid FMIC supplied and fitted. Surely IF you are going to spend that kind of money upgrading, it's a no brainer?
Ns04
I know there are concerns on here about the length of the pipework having an adverse effect on lag, but those who have quality kits fitted say that this concern is greatly overstated and the effects are barely noticable.
For 800 quid you could get a hybrid FMIC supplied and fitted. Surely IF you are going to spend that kind of money upgrading, it's a no brainer?
Ns04
I had a Hybrid FMIC fitted on my classic and must say that the car ran great with it on ,but dont want to be bothered with the hassle of cutting bumper again.
ps this is on a 2002 STI not a CLASSIC
11 January 2007, 04:29 PM
#83
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It was fitted when i bought the car so im not complaining and is supposed to be a hell of an upgrade over the existing unit as it has far more capacity
I had a Hybrid FMIC fitted on my classic and must say that the car ran great with it on ,but dont want to be bothered with the hassle of cutting bumper again.
ps this is on a 2002 STI not a CLASSIC
I had a Hybrid FMIC fitted on my classic and must say that the car ran great with it on ,but dont want to be bothered with the hassle of cutting bumper again.
ps this is on a 2002 STI not a CLASSIC
I'm sure the hyperflow one is a perfectly good piece of kit.I think I'm really saying the same as most people on here. Those with a Sti 7 or later intercooler prob have no need to upgrade, but if you're going to the logical step for the money you'd need to fork out for anything significantly better (if anything is significantly better, I don't know- I've not seen the data) you may as well get a quality FMIC and overcome the inherent problems with heat soak and the high speed aerodynamic issues.
Ns04
11 January 2007, 04:53 PM
#84
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I read with interest the artical in the latest japanese performance mag the test with subaru intercoolers,frontmount came out best,but not that much better than the quality top mount.I would have liked to see the results useing the sti cooler.Has anyone got any results in a comparison test.I think the testing took place at scooby clinic so i understand they would want to sell there product range,but it would be nice to know how a £250.00 second hand sti cooler would compare
11 January 2007, 06:04 PM
#85
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Personally I would like to see a comparison test between the latest STI TMIC, the APS and Hyperflow TMIC's and then a good quality front mount.
For me that would be conclusive as to whether it is worth upgrading from the latest STI design to a larger volume aftermarket TMIC or go the FMIC route.
For me that would be conclusive as to whether it is worth upgrading from the latest STI design to a larger volume aftermarket TMIC or go the FMIC route.
11 January 2007, 06:17 PM
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Personally I would like to see a comparison test between the latest STI TMIC, the APS and Hyperflow TMIC's and then a good quality front mount.
For me that would be conclusive as to whether it is worth upgrading from the latest STI design to a larger volume aftermarket TMIC or go the FMIC route.
For me that would be conclusive as to whether it is worth upgrading from the latest STI design to a larger volume aftermarket TMIC or go the FMIC route.
Of course the reversed manifold would be a better option with shorter pipework
11 January 2007, 10:28 PM
#87
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GTI-R topmount - smaller scoop than Impreza, but even worse nowhere for the air going through the cooler, it sits just 10mm or so from the top of the cam cover!
200sx side mount - small, little or no airflow, **** poor!
So far, the biggest problem with the STI item is it can unzip itself. I actually quite like the hyperflow TMIC. It's similar to the APS unit, but the billet end tank is somewhat thinner walled than the cast ones on the APS. But if you're worried about heatsoak, keep moving! After a good run, even a TMIC with considerable mass will be cool to the touch in my esperience.
Rolling roads cannot be relied on to give representative cooling effectiveness. Even the best single fan setups don't get enough air flowing over the whole of the front end. An auxilary fan for the FMIC can work wonders on the rolling road.
At the 350hp level, on the hottest day of the year (35'C ambient), I recorded 45'C throttle body temps. Measuring temps at idle isn't a great as the airflow is so slow the air picks up heat from the throttle body or inlet manifold.
200sx side mount - small, little or no airflow, **** poor!
So far, the biggest problem with the STI item is it can unzip itself. I actually quite like the hyperflow TMIC. It's similar to the APS unit, but the billet end tank is somewhat thinner walled than the cast ones on the APS. But if you're worried about heatsoak, keep moving! After a good run, even a TMIC with considerable mass will be cool to the touch in my esperience.
Rolling roads cannot be relied on to give representative cooling effectiveness. Even the best single fan setups don't get enough air flowing over the whole of the front end. An auxilary fan for the FMIC can work wonders on the rolling road.
At the 350hp level, on the hottest day of the year (35'C ambient), I recorded 45'C throttle body temps. Measuring temps at idle isn't a great as the airflow is so slow the air picks up heat from the throttle body or inlet manifold.
11 January 2007, 10:37 PM
#88
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can't say I've noticed my APS TMIC getting that hot to be honest, and I'm running a peak if 1.45bar boost, yes it is quite heavy though, but i put that down to it being well made.
11 January 2007, 10:49 PM
#89
GTI-R topmount - smaller scoop than Impreza, but even worse nowhere for the air going through the cooler, it sits just 10mm or so from the top of the cam cover!
200sx side mount - small, little or no airflow, **** poor!
So far, the biggest problem with the STI item is it can unzip itself. I actually quite like the hyperflow TMIC. It's similar to the APS unit, but the billet end tank is somewhat thinner walled than the cast ones on the APS. But if you're worried about heatsoak, keep moving! After a good run, even a TMIC with considerable mass will be cool to the touch in my esperience.
Rolling roads cannot be relied on to give representative cooling effectiveness. Even the best single fan setups don't get enough air flowing over the whole of the front end. An auxilary fan for the FMIC can work wonders on the rolling road.
At the 350hp level, on the hottest day of the year (35'C ambient), I recorded 45'C throttle body temps. Measuring temps at idle isn't a great as the airflow is so slow the air picks up heat from the throttle body or inlet manifold.
200sx side mount - small, little or no airflow, **** poor!
So far, the biggest problem with the STI item is it can unzip itself. I actually quite like the hyperflow TMIC. It's similar to the APS unit, but the billet end tank is somewhat thinner walled than the cast ones on the APS. But if you're worried about heatsoak, keep moving! After a good run, even a TMIC with considerable mass will be cool to the touch in my esperience.
Rolling roads cannot be relied on to give representative cooling effectiveness. Even the best single fan setups don't get enough air flowing over the whole of the front end. An auxilary fan for the FMIC can work wonders on the rolling road.
At the 350hp level, on the hottest day of the year (35'C ambient), I recorded 45'C throttle body temps. Measuring temps at idle isn't a great as the airflow is so slow the air picks up heat from the throttle body or inlet manifold.
Cheers Paul..
Im going to put off running a FMIC setup for as long as possible.. hopefully will be running over 400bhp on a 2002 sti (uk).
We shall see where it takes us
11 January 2007, 10:58 PM
#90
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i thought the answer to this question was they kept the top mount for the purpose of rally Homologation purposes if you look at the wrc cars there intercooler is efectivley a top mount