AlanG

I kinda got a feeling this was one of those threads that was going to go round and round in circles. I went out for a chinese takeaway after my last post and was thinking how the hell was i going to try and type a reply if it wasn't understood where i was coming from.

Now i've finished my dinner and sitting like some buddha on the couch and can't move cause i've over eaten , there's no need.


I'm not clued up on the 6 speeders but i think it's just the top gear(s) that's longer on the UK box?

*smiles*

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Mental imagine registered

Way off topic, how old was that article on your car in JP the other month?

Pre Hawkeye, 6 speed differences were 5th and 6th being longer in UK, plus the UK uses a 1.1:1 drop gear, with a UK 6th being equal to a UK 5th from a 5 speed.

I dont know if that changed on the Hawkeye, but i know the recent foresters have better matched ratios, and even taller 5th and 6th.

AlanG

That would have been around April/May last year Steven when the photoshoot was done.

The first time the car was in the magazine in 2004 it was 2-3 months after the shoot that it went into print, so i didn't think it was going in this time round, cause so much time had lapsed and new cars were surfacing on the scene.
That article is out of date obviously cause a number of things have since changed, though externally it's the same.

AlanG

Good choice of turbo for the modified 2.5 imo. I didn't like a screamer pipe when i had one on my car. Too much noise and vibration through the footwell when on boost. (screamer exit was right at the bulkhead next to the footwell).
Are you using the 0.63 exhaust housing or 0.82?

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Cheers mate. I REALLY need to get a test drive sorted out!

Oh Alan, did you find that ICV? Let me know when i can pop over for it? Cheers.

*smiles*

Basically I was happy with the sensible/ conservative power mods that the previous owner had carried out, Full H&S Decat, Apexi Induction, uprated fuel pump, ported oe headers and Pat Herborn map, which gave 315. Only something intervened and left me without a bearing in No3 big end and also some piston bore wear was found.

What I was looking for in a rebuild was a rebuild for longevity and reliability rather than uber power, where I would feel that noose starting to tighten a few thousand miles down the road. So decided to put it back how it was only this time with stronger internals (sti 8/9 crank/ rods/ mahle pistons, acl bearings, rcm oil pump, remap etc) as was happy to keep the same power as before but...

But then I got distracted by the 2.5 Short block idea, and probably under the misconception that why build my old engine, when all I had to do was whack out the plastic and could have a shiny new shortblock straight out the wrapper, bolt it alltogether and there you go job done and dont have to bother getting your hands dirty with a rebuild. I wouldnt be able to afford to throw anymore money at it like bigger turbo, rebuild the 2.5 with better pistons etc. And as people said as soon as you get the 2.5 you need other bits to do it justice and make most of it, turbo, replace pistons.

As for the use i want to put it to I am now under the thinking that to do the 2.5 justice it should be modded further than I am not prepared (or financially able) to go and probably an overkill and some may call it a waste if I was going to go to all the epxense of the 2.5 and run it at just 315, ok the 2.5 it might do it without breaking into a sweat and with oodles more torque but for how I want to use it then maybe not the panacea to all that i thought it was, horses for courses. As somebody else put, you cant have it both ways the 2.5 and 2.0 are different beasts in the way they make power and where they find it.

If I could do the 2.5 on the shoestring and as just a drop in and leave for eternity then that Would be the route, but from what I am reading that is not really possible, as would not have finance to fund pistons, bigger turbo etc, and the biggest one of all that I forgot, Could I even afford the insurance of the 2.5.

Some great words of wisdom spoken here, cheers

Yep, Spot On! the pair of you

*smiles*

the threads been busy since I have been out ... did I start something here

*smiles*

so in summary from what i am reading maybe something like, 2.5 is great to do, but done properly - read expensive, but as a drop it in off you go jobby on the shoestring then

AlanG

Most people that want the 2.5, tend to want it for the easy torque/power it produces for little stress and little money.
The problem starts when they realise after all the effort they've put in to getting loads of power on what was a suitable turbo for the 2.0, is "used up" so to speak, very quickly by the 2.5 and this leads them into wanting more from their 2.5 cause the results were better and easily achieved.

I get the feeling that although you say you don't have much money to spend on the car after a rebuild or replacement and that you say you only want what you have just now or a little more, i still think you secretly want more if you have an engine capable of producing more.

If that isn't the case, then as i said earlier, the 2.5 is a brand new engine, no history, no miles on it and it will give piece of mind. By all means rebuild your own engine, but i'd be wary that remnants from your "blown" engine may still be in there and so your problem could resurface in future. Just make sure if you rebuild your own, it is spotlessly clean beforehand.
...And looking at the 2 litre rebuild spec, i still think you want more than you have just now....

drb5
Yes pop over tomorrow if you want.

*smiles*

ARRRRGGGHHHHHH ... Will I ever decide what to do

AlanG

Re: insurance.
The insurance for my car as a 2.5 is cheaper than when it was a 2litre. Not saying it's cheaper to insure for everyone, we're all different, all i'm saying is get a quote or two, you never no.

AlanG

You'll get the hunger for more. Just remember, you only regret what you've never done.

*smiles*

I'm reading various threads that the 2.5's achiles heal so to speak or power blocker is its pistons and as you say you are going to 'use up' the turbo a lot quicker so needs a bigger one the moment you drive it out the garage and donw the first bit of dual carriageway. Is the piston issue a valid one, wouldnt want to put the block in then end up having to take it out to do them when should have done it right first time

*smiles*

I'm through moley at the moment with Keith Michaels

*smiles*

It may have to go into winter storage till I can find the extra

..now where was that webiste where you can sell an organ online

AlanG

Ditto.

The EJ257 uses Hypereutectic pistons which run a very tight clearance which i'm led to believe is in the order of half a thou (good for noise and oil control though, i'd imagine).

The most popular figure bandied about as being reliable before having to swap over pistons (or go for more piston clearance come to think of it..) is 400bhp, but you'll have a similar figure in torque. That torque figure or "band of torque" figure, you're not going to get from the 2 litre unit in the same relaxed state.

I've never had a bone stock 2.5. I jumped in head first and went for the full monty...

Organs r us.com

*smiles*

your not making my decision any easier

will get a drive in Neilo's Sunday If I can make it over there.

I guess my limiting factor will be the funding and will determine my plans, just waiting to get some pricing back on both options, so thay may make my decision for me

*smiles*

I have in region of 2k max and not in the 4k bracket

wagon cost me 7

DesR

Actually Alan, it was your previous configuration that prompted my decision. Thought about the GT35R (which I believe you are running now) but decided against it on the basis that it would have needed even more money to apply safely. I've got the .63 housing so it's very pleasant to drive (managing 1 bar of boost in 5th at 3000rpm and full boost at 3300rpm).

Agree about the screamer pipe. It's very funny in the short term but not something I would enjoy living with. It was left VTA as the car is used daily to run the kids to school (I love saying that about a +-500hp car - just wish it was a wagon now). It's all getting plumbed back in during December.

How are you finding traction on your car with the step up to the GT35R? I felt the car was pretty much perfect in terms of being right near the edge of traction on the GT30R (in the dry anyway ), so I'm quite curious to know how well it handles the extra +-100hp?

*smiles*

AlanG

Can you do any of the work yourself?

The easiest way is to rebuild your engine and get the map checked after it's run in just to check mapping is okay for the new engine and that's it.(Cost of rebuild, cost of map check) or...

You source the cheapest place for a 2.5 block, fit it, then get it mapped to suit with the ancilleries you already have. You won't really lose out. From low down and through the midrange it'll feel the better car but will run out of puff in comparison higher up in rpm. When you get used to all the low/midrange grunt, that's when you want more at the top end cause your spoiled with the effortless midrange... and so the modding circle comes round once again.....

To recap.. (cost of 2.5 block, cost to map)

I used the 0.82 housing on my GT30R DesR. I liked the overall package but felt there was more to come from the engine.
The concern was for my rods, so i moved to the GT35R to get my torque higher up in the rev range (now circa 5000rpm).

Tractions a bit of an issue in this weather (ahem..understatement!) but not as bad as it was with the GT30R (well... until you hit 5000rpm anyway, then all hell breaks loose!!) . I'd imagine the quicker spooling 0.63 housing on a GT30R in my car would be a nonsense to drive with the weather as it is at the moment.
Ironically, it's really nice to drive (and quickly) with just 0.7bar boost. Ho hum...

*smiles*

Not really no, we have no garage shed etc that i can work in. Was even looking around see if there were any lockup garages etc local to rent, but there are none. Then there is the problem of needing to go out and buy all the tools you need etc so by the time done that and its taken me 6 months to bugger it up several times may have well got it done by someone for me.
Plus the small fact of work commitments as well so no spare time only weekends. Would love in the future when we possibly move house next time to get a garage or workshop and buy an old engine to expirement and learn on, but for now

Appreciate your input it does make it clearer now

I love the idea of the 2.5 if could pull it off

DesR

4 wheel spin in third this evening... hysterical.

The minute boost kicked in this evening, the tires lost traction.

Andy setup the car to run up to 1.8 bar and like you, I'm a bit concerned by the rods (thought you had uprated parts from the outset????), so I'm adding some Pauter items to the engine come December (yet more money).

*smiles* - I quite like keeping the car as understated as possible (quite difficult with a B52 wing attached to the boot) so a wagon would definitely be in keeping with that philosophy. £2K to spend... hmmm... your resolve won't last.

I did a 'small' upgrade intially... just 300/300. I mean why would anyone ever want more than 300/300? It's more than enough. Problem is the Subaru just seems to handle adding more power to it so easily you just can't stop. I blame the 4wd. In a 2wd you would have been spinning the wheels all the way down the road and completely overwhelmed any traction control system. With a Scoob adding 3 times the power just seems right...

*smiles*

...The Patient

*smiles*

At some point it may make way for a v7 Bug wagon, and thinking how much I should spend depends on how long we intend to keep this one.

Criminal they dont make an STi one anymore

Could always do a 2.5, rebuild mine over the period of the next year, then when time comes to sell, swap them back over and 2.5 ready to go in next car and repeat

drb5

iTrader: (4)

You could always go the route i went mate.

Get yourself a new 2.5 from the States(i'm sure it'll still be cheaper with shipping and taxes, than here), get some cheap drop in pistons, head studs and gaskets. If you can get them a bit cheaper than the usual, i dare say you could get tha lot for circa 2k.

AlanG

If you want the car back on the road in minimal time and it's only a question of which engine to put in (2.5 or 2.0), i'd probably drop in the 2.5 for piece of mind (cause it's new), map it and be done with it.

If you're not in so much of a rush you could start searching for a complete secondhand 2.0 engine and drop that straight in. Money for money will probably work out similar to above.

After that the pressure's off to rebuild your original engine. Source and price parts to rebuild it at your leisure, you'll find that uprated components can probably be had for less than original replacements.

Yes i run Arrow rods Des.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Like the "Location" Alan.

I'll be over about 9-9.30?

AlanG

An example of UK 2.5 prices (don't go there Dave... ) It will eat up most of your budget just buying one, then you've got the labour costs of fitting/mapping on top to think of. BTW if that is the typical "full" Subaru gasket set you get on that site, it's not a bad price (for the gasket set) unless you are able to get one through a trade account.

I'm up early this morning Dave, no problem.