Chepaest way to get 400bhp out of a P1?
04 November 2006, 12:23 AM
#31
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Why?
Gearbox, full engine rebuild, brakes, suspension, possably an ecu upgrade, radiator, intercooler, hoses, clutch, turbo.... all adds up
20k seems reasonable.
Tony
Gearbox, full engine rebuild, brakes, suspension, possably an ecu upgrade, radiator, intercooler, hoses, clutch, turbo.... all adds up
20k seems reasonable.
Tony
Gearbox - nope
Brakes - nope
Suspension - nope
Radiator - nope
hoses - nope
Clutch - maybe, my standard one is only starting to slip and that's will 411/400 and many a full blown drag launch
Even if you want to include all these things you'd still be thousands short of 20k. I still think 400 for £4k is do-able and if you want to include everything else.....
Gearbox - 1500 for a 6 speed
Brakes - 1100 for ap 4 pots and 330 discs
Suspension - 300 arbs, drop links and geom setup
Radiator - fine for 400
hoses - also fine for 400
Clutch - think the gb is for 300?
That little lot come to £3200, well short.
04 November 2006, 12:38 AM
#32
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Gearbox, 6 speed 2nd hand. 1500 quid, 5 speed with decent rebuild, 3k.
Engine rebuild for strength, 7k.
Uprated brakes, 1800 quid
Suspension, 2k for shocks and springs, 300 for arb's.
Radiator.... decent uprated STi one.. 500+ quid there
Hoses, 400 sounds good to me
Clutch (uprated) 500 quid
FMIC or TMIC 500+
Labour... 3k
So your looking at 3k + 7k + 1800 + 2.3k + 500 + 500 + 400 + 500 + 500 +3k
19.5k and im not sure if the cost of the turbo would be included in the engine rebuild also (but just for the sake of it say it is or you would be adding another 1k on for it)
I should add that all the parts I listed have something to do with a power upgrade, be it stability with the extra power or the ability to slow down with that extra power, its all comes into one package.
Tony
Engine rebuild for strength, 7k.
Uprated brakes, 1800 quid
Suspension, 2k for shocks and springs, 300 for arb's.
Radiator.... decent uprated STi one.. 500+ quid there
Hoses, 400 sounds good to me
Clutch (uprated) 500 quid
FMIC or TMIC 500+
Labour... 3k
So your looking at 3k + 7k + 1800 + 2.3k + 500 + 500 + 400 + 500 + 500 +3k
19.5k
and im not sure if the cost of the turbo would be included in the engine rebuild also (but just for the sake of it say it is or you would be adding another 1k on for it)I should add that all the parts I listed have something to do with a power upgrade, be it stability with the extra power or the ability to slow down with that extra power, its all comes into one package.
Tony
04 November 2006, 01:04 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Playsatan
Including the car? If not he was well done.
04 November 2006, 01:42 PM
#34
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Gearbox, 6 speed 2nd hand. 1500 quid, 5 speed with decent rebuild, 3k.
Engine rebuild for strength, 7k.
Uprated brakes, 1800 quid
Suspension, 2k for shocks and springs, 300 for arb's.
Radiator.... decent uprated STi one.. 500+ quid there
Hoses, 400 sounds good to me
Clutch (uprated) 500 quid
FMIC or TMIC 500+
Labour... 3k
So your looking at 3k + 7k + 1800 + 2.3k + 500 + 500 + 400 + 500 + 500 +3k
Tony
Engine rebuild for strength, 7k.
Uprated brakes, 1800 quid
Suspension, 2k for shocks and springs, 300 for arb's.
Radiator.... decent uprated STi one.. 500+ quid there
Hoses, 400 sounds good to me
Clutch (uprated) 500 quid
FMIC or TMIC 500+
Labour... 3k
So your looking at 3k + 7k + 1800 + 2.3k + 500 + 500 + 400 + 500 + 500 +3k
Tony
The original poster asked how much for 400 bhp and I think that £4k is realistic. Of course if he asked for how much to completely overhaul his car that would be totally different, especially if he wanted to fit the most expensive parts possible with complete overkill in mind as you have listed them (£7k for a rebuild??).
04 November 2006, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Playsatan
Sorry Tony but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
The original poster asked how much for 400 bhp and I think that £4k is realistic. Of course if he asked for how much to completely overhaul his car that would be totally different, especially if he wanted to fit the most expensive parts possible with complete overkill in mind as you have listed them (£7k for a rebuild??).
The original poster asked how much for 400 bhp and I think that £4k is realistic. Of course if he asked for how much to completely overhaul his car that would be totally different, especially if he wanted to fit the most expensive parts possible with complete overkill in mind as you have listed them (£7k for a rebuild??).
As for 4k for 400bhp, go and do it, once it breaks and you start adding parts to it keep the score, at about 15k come back and tell us because it will get up there.
The difference between 400bhp and a reliable 400bhp is going to be evident.
Tony
04 November 2006, 02:20 PM
#36
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Play,
Your way is this
Turbo-1000 quid
fmic-800 quid
exhaust (full system) 600 quid
Remap 700 quid
Gearbox (because it will break) 500 quid (and that one will also break so go) 2k (unless you rebuild the original box and thats going to cost you about 3k with parts that can take the strain
Clutch 500 quid
(800 quid for labour and thats being cheap!)
So cost so far is..... 6400 quid.
Engine goes pop.... rebuild for power, 7000 quid (not a 4k normal build btw)
Cost now is 13400 quid (its going up a bit aint it)
The standard subaru 4 pots aint going to be able to stop the car with 400bhp so they will need upgrading, 1600 quid for a very good set (15k atm)
Your going to want the car to be more stable with all that extra power (2k for ast's etc) 17k atm....
Now you may see where im going here, the initial outlay may seem cheap but its not, you WILL have to upgrade parts of the car to handle the power, its not as simple as saying "4k for 400bhp" which sounds nice but when the car is in the garage with broken bits.... well there ya go.
Tony
Your way is this
Turbo-1000 quid
fmic-800 quid
exhaust (full system) 600 quid
Remap 700 quid
Gearbox (because it will break) 500 quid (and that one will also break so go) 2k (unless you rebuild the original box and thats going to cost you about 3k with parts that can take the strain
Clutch 500 quid
(800 quid for labour and thats being cheap!)
So cost so far is..... 6400 quid.
Engine goes pop.... rebuild for power, 7000 quid (not a 4k normal build btw)
Cost now is 13400 quid (its going up a bit aint it
)The standard subaru 4 pots aint going to be able to stop the car with 400bhp so they will need upgrading, 1600 quid for a very good set (15k atm)
Your going to want the car to be more stable with all that extra power (2k for ast's etc) 17k atm....
Now you may see where im going here, the initial outlay may seem cheap but its not, you WILL have to upgrade parts of the car to handle the power, its not as simple as saying "4k for 400bhp" which sounds nice but when the car is in the garage with broken bits.... well there ya go.
Tony
04 November 2006, 04:03 PM
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tony
i sort of see where he's coming from
the thread was ''cheapest way to get 400 bhp''
do that for less than £4000
MD321T - £1300
remap - £700
decat - £600
headers - £400
550cc injectors - £350
650 quid change
ok, it won't last long due to heat soak, transmission etc
but the question has been answered
or,do it properly,like you said
i sort of see where he's coming from
the thread was ''cheapest way to get 400 bhp''
do that for less than £4000
MD321T - £1300
remap - £700
decat - £600
headers - £400
550cc injectors - £350
650 quid change
ok, it won't last long due to heat soak, transmission etc
but the question has been answered
or,do it properly,like you said
04 November 2006, 04:16 PM
#38
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7k for an engine rebuild!!!! You are having a laugh!
Try half that for a damn strong 2.33 build short block. Don't know who would actually charge you £7k for a short block.
I know how much rebuilds are as i am just doing a fully forged 2.1 stroker with uprated everything. Let just say i would get more than £4.5k change from £7k for my rebuild!!!
Also you can get a decent FMIC for £350 and why would you need a different radiator?? The standard subaru one will cope way above the 400bhp level !!!
Try half that for a damn strong 2.33 build short block. Don't know who would actually charge you £7k for a short block.
I know how much rebuilds are as i am just doing a fully forged 2.1 stroker with uprated everything. Let just say i would get more than £4.5k change from £7k for my rebuild!!!
Also you can get a decent FMIC for £350 and why would you need a different radiator?? The standard subaru one will cope way above the 400bhp level !!!
Last edited by coulty; 04 November 2006 at 04:19 PM.
04 November 2006, 04:41 PM
#39
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Defo think your going OTT, Tony.
If the poster of this thread had asked "Best complete and utter, fully built up for me, using nothing but the best bits, for 400hp, even though everything listed will last with a helluva lot more power?", then yes, i'd say you were right............but he didn't.
If the poster of this thread had asked "Best complete and utter, fully built up for me, using nothing but the best bits, for 400hp, even though everything listed will last with a helluva lot more power?", then yes, i'd say you were right............but he didn't.
04 November 2006, 06:19 PM
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Suppose it depends on how long you want a 400bhp engine to last, if you want it to last 2 weeks, 4k if you want it to last 150k miles, 7+k
Why the radiator?
Simple, the car is nearly 7 years old, radiator cores have a tendancy to rot, why leave an old radiator in there which could go and leave you with a head gasket/cracked head when its easier to replace whilst building your new engine?
As for cost, well if you do it yourself, its going to be a lot cheaper but most people cant or dont have time to do it themselves so its going to be more expensive, 4k is the average cost of a "normal" rebuild for an engine, some places do it cheaper I agree, if you want reliability then you need to put your hand in your pocket, if you dont then you will be putting your hand in your pocket.
Tony
PS, all I was agreeing on was the cost that someone else posted, but if you dont do it right in the first place......
if you want it to last 150k miles, 7+kWhy the radiator?
Simple, the car is nearly 7 years old, radiator cores have a tendancy to rot, why leave an old radiator in there which could go and leave you with a head gasket/cracked head when its easier to replace whilst building your new engine?
As for cost, well if you do it yourself, its going to be a lot cheaper but most people cant or dont have time to do it themselves so its going to be more expensive, 4k is the average cost of a "normal" rebuild for an engine, some places do it cheaper I agree, if you want reliability then you need to put your hand in your pocket, if you dont then you will be putting your hand in your pocket.
Tony
PS, all I was agreeing on was the cost that someone else posted, but if you dont do it right in the first place......
04 November 2006, 07:26 PM
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Plenty people have had UK Turbos(standard internals) running over 400hp for some time...infact, standard gearboxes too, but they must be lucky. 
It depends on a few key things, Tony, most of which, is how well you look after the engine. How you drive it, is another major thing.
It depends on a few key things, Tony, most of which, is how well you look after the engine. How you drive it, is another major thing.
05 November 2006, 12:54 AM
#45
I can only imagine that your middle name is Burns and that you last name is Onnasis or something as you seem to like spending money unnessesarily. Let me resfresh your memory of the original question
"Hi,
I'm just about to pick my P1 up in 2 weeks and wondered if anybody knows the most cost effective way to hit around the 400 bhp mark!"
Simple, the car is nearly 7 years old, radiator cores have a tendancy to rot, why leave an old radiator in there which could go and leave you with a head gasket/cracked head when its easier to replace whilst building your new engine? So you're saying this is a normal wear and tear expense, not power related and it would need repacing at 280 bhp as well?
PS, all I was agreeing on was the cost that someone else posted, but if you dont do it right in the first place......
Let me get this straight. I fully understand that £4k isn't enough to transform your car from top to bottom, inside out but that is not what is being asked here. Can the guy get 400 for £4k? Yes. Can he get the same 400 for £10k+? Yes.
Oh yes, one last thing.
Well I have. I don't like banging on about how much I've spent on my car as it nobodies business but my own but I've a dyno proven 411/401 and it cost me a sight less that £4k. If you want I'll do the same for you at a special rate. How does £19,995 sound?
"Hi,
I'm just about to pick my P1 up in 2 weeks and wondered if anybody knows the most cost effective way to hit around the 400 bhp mark!"
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Play,
Your way is this
Turbo-1000 quid Near enough
fmic-800 quid WTF? More like £350
exhaust (full system) 600 quid From RCM maybe but £300 from just about anywhere else
Remap 700 quid Bang on
Gearbox (because it will break) Will it? Mines fine although I grant you when it tops 500 bhp it will need upgrading
Clutch 500 quid group buy say more like £230
(800 quid for labour and thats being cheap!) Whats labour?
So cost so far is..... 6400 quid. Under £2600 by my reckoning
Engine goes pop.... Why? There's plenty of 400 bhp cars on standard internals and if you read my original post I even said get a ej257 for an added safety margin, it's within budget after all
rebuild for power, 7000 quid (not a 4k normal build btw) Again, why? The guy asked for 400 not 8
Cost now is 13400 quid (its going up a bit aint it) Well if you've got money to burn why not?
The standard subaru 4 pots aint going to be able to stop the car with 400bhp so they will need upgrading, 1600 quid for a very good set (15k atm) Not relevant, the guy asked about power not brakes. Why not add on a paint job or a nice ice install while we're at it?
Your going to want the car to be more stable with all that extra power (2k for ast's etc) 17k atm.... See above
Your way is this
Turbo-1000 quid Near enough
fmic-800 quid WTF? More like £350
exhaust (full system) 600 quid From RCM maybe but £300 from just about anywhere else
Remap 700 quid Bang on
Gearbox (because it will break) Will it? Mines fine although I grant you when it tops 500 bhp it will need upgrading
Clutch 500 quid group buy say more like £230
(800 quid for labour and thats being cheap!) Whats labour?
So cost so far is..... 6400 quid. Under £2600 by my reckoning
Engine goes pop.... Why? There's plenty of 400 bhp cars on standard internals and if you read my original post I even said get a ej257 for an added safety margin, it's within budget after all
rebuild for power, 7000 quid (not a 4k normal build btw) Again, why? The guy asked for 400 not 8
Cost now is 13400 quid (its going up a bit aint it
) Well if you've got money to burn why not?The standard subaru 4 pots aint going to be able to stop the car with 400bhp so they will need upgrading, 1600 quid for a very good set (15k atm) Not relevant, the guy asked about power not brakes. Why not add on a paint job or a nice ice install while we're at it?
Your going to want the car to be more stable with all that extra power (2k for ast's etc) 17k atm.... See above
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Simple, the car is nearly 7 years old, radiator cores have a tendancy to rot, why leave an old radiator in there which could go and leave you with a head gasket/cracked head when its easier to replace whilst building your new engine? So you're saying this is a normal wear and tear expense, not power related and it would need repacing at 280 bhp as well?
PS, all I was agreeing on was the cost that someone else posted, but if you dont do it right in the first place......
Oh yes, one last thing.
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
As for 4k for 400bhp, go and do it......
05 November 2006, 12:58 AM
#46
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I have had my P1 in its current state for around 18mths +
Last RR I had (Feb 06) gave me 396bhp)
I have had NO issues with the car at this level whatsoever. Standard gearbox, but running an AP Organic Clutch on OE flywheel.
Standard Internals, and only bolt-on mods.
OE ECU on Ecutek mapped by Bob Rawle to 1.5bar Max
I say its all down to the collaboration of correct mods, and the mapping
Done on a budget, yet still breathtaking when need be
Last RR I had (Feb 06) gave me 396bhp)
I have had NO issues with the car at this level whatsoever. Standard gearbox, but running an AP Organic Clutch on OE flywheel.
Standard Internals, and only bolt-on mods.
OE ECU on Ecutek mapped by Bob Rawle to 1.5bar Max
I say its all down to the collaboration of correct mods, and the mapping
Done on a budget, yet still breathtaking when need be
05 November 2006, 07:34 AM
#47
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Playsatan,
What full exhaust system, capable of 400bhp, are you mentioning for £300?
Dave
What full exhaust system, capable of 400bhp, are you mentioning for £300?
Dave
Originally Posted by Playsatan
I can only imagine that your middle name is Burns and that you last name is Onnasis or something as you seem to like spending money unnessesarily. Let me resfresh your memory of the original question
"Hi,
I'm just about to pick my P1 up in 2 weeks and wondered if anybody knows the most cost effective way to hit around the 400 bhp mark!"
[/color]
[/color]
Let me get this straight. I fully understand that £4k isn't enough to transform your car from top to bottom, inside out but that is not what is being asked here. Can the guy get 400 for £4k? Yes. Can he get the same 400 for £10k+? Yes.
Oh yes, one last thing.
Well I have. I don't like banging on about how much I've spent on my car as it nobodies business but my own but I've a dyno proven 411/401 and it cost me a sight less that £4k. If you want I'll do the same for you at a special rate. How does £19,995 sound?
"Hi,
I'm just about to pick my P1 up in 2 weeks and wondered if anybody knows the most cost effective way to hit around the 400 bhp mark!"
[/color]
[/color]
Let me get this straight. I fully understand that £4k isn't enough to transform your car from top to bottom, inside out but that is not what is being asked here. Can the guy get 400 for £4k? Yes. Can he get the same 400 for £10k+? Yes.
Oh yes, one last thing.
Well I have. I don't like banging on about how much I've spent on my car as it nobodies business but my own but I've a dyno proven 411/401 and it cost me a sight less that £4k. If you want I'll do the same for you at a special rate. How does £19,995 sound?
05 November 2006, 08:07 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Daveo
Playsatan,
What full exhaust system, capable of 400bhp, are you mentioning for £300?
Dave
What full exhaust system, capable of 400bhp, are you mentioning for £300?
Dave
Impreza Turbo 1993-2000 Classic:Impreza Turbo 1993-2000 Classic: Scoobyworld Afterburner Vortex [AFTERBURNERBB] - £279.99£249.99
Anyway, I never said you needed a full system, Tony did.
When I went to TOTB 3 Andy Forrest ran a 10 using a 2.5" standard exhaust.
05 November 2006, 08:18 AM
#49
I was faced with this issue 2 years ago on my Sti V3, so have done the '400 on a shoe string'
Stock Sti v3:
20g turbo £800 rebuilt by AndyF (not new)
Apexi FC supply and map £750 (new, AndyF)
550cc injectors (2nd hand) £250
Walbro + SX reg £350 (new)
Groupe S headers + helix up-pipe £400 (ported Harvey's do just as well?)(new)
V8 TMIC home modified to fit £300 (2nd hand)
AP organic (fantastic clutch IMO) £250 new from an Snetter
Breather/parallel fuel mods £15
Second hand 3'' decat system, very quiet too £250
All DIY so no labour at all.
Cost: £ 3365
RR's gave 407 bhp and 380 bhp (different RR's of course
)
Stock Sti V3 box, very sticky tyres, and 80 hillclimb runs in anger, plus 6000 road miles on Optimax with NF booster.
Now has a FMIC from Harvey (should have done that in the first place)
Stock brakes....no probs to me, but mega suspension.
DropShots Day
DropShots Day
It will do this all day long and has won class in Championships
Graham
ps: Does this make mine the CHEAPEST 400 bhp Sti?
Stock Sti v3:
20g turbo £800 rebuilt by AndyF (not new)
Apexi FC supply and map £750 (new, AndyF)
550cc injectors (2nd hand) £250
Walbro + SX reg £350 (new)
Groupe S headers + helix up-pipe £400 (ported Harvey's do just as well?)(new)
V8 TMIC home modified to fit £300 (2nd hand)
AP organic (fantastic clutch IMO) £250 new from an Snetter
Breather/parallel fuel mods £15
Second hand 3'' decat system, very quiet too £250
All DIY so no labour at all.
Cost: £ 3365
RR's gave 407 bhp and 380 bhp (different RR's of course
)Stock Sti V3 box, very sticky tyres, and 80 hillclimb runs in anger, plus 6000 road miles on Optimax with NF booster.
Now has a FMIC from Harvey (should have done that in the first place)
Stock brakes....no probs to me, but mega suspension.
DropShots Day
DropShots Day
It will do this all day long and has won class in Championships
Graham
ps: Does this make mine the CHEAPEST 400 bhp Sti?
Last edited by 911; 05 November 2006 at 08:24 AM.
05 November 2006, 11:03 AM
#50
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Chepaest way to get 400bhp out of a P1?
nitrous in the short term is the cheapest £400 or there abouts inc controller + fitting ,but you can do that yourself its not rocket science
nitrous in the short term is the cheapest £400 or there abouts inc controller + fitting ,but you can do that yourself its not rocket science
05 November 2006, 10:38 PM
#51
Ecu Specialist
Nitrous will blow it to the moon, earth looks good from up there I'm told, listen to P1kle and read his and Mark's project threads on P1.org, all the answers are in there, both have achieved the result you want and both have done it sensibly on conservative budgets.
there are three P1 owners that I have been involved with that have "got there" imho.
oh and the oem ecu is MORE than capable of 400 so no need to flash out on aftermarket.
best regards
bob
there are three P1 owners that I have been involved with that have "got there" imho.
oh and the oem ecu is MORE than capable of 400 so no need to flash out on aftermarket.
best regards
bob
06 November 2006, 12:02 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by 911
I was faced with this issue 2 years ago on my Sti V3, so have done the '400 on a shoe string'
Stock Sti v3:
20g turbo £800 rebuilt by AndyF (not new)
Apexi FC supply and map £750 (new, AndyF)
550cc injectors (2nd hand) £250
Walbro + SX reg £350 (new)
Groupe S headers + helix up-pipe £400 (ported Harvey's do just as well?)(new)
V8 TMIC home modified to fit £300 (2nd hand)
AP organic (fantastic clutch IMO) £250 new from an Snetter
Breather/parallel fuel mods £15
Second hand 3'' decat system, very quiet too £250
All DIY so no labour at all.
Cost: £ 3365
RR's gave 407 bhp and 380 bhp (different RR's of course)
Stock Sti V3 box, very sticky tyres, and 80 hillclimb runs in anger, plus 6000 road miles on Optimax with NF booster.
Now has a FMIC from Harvey (should have done that in the first place)
Stock brakes....no probs to me, but mega suspension.
DropShots Day
DropShots Day
It will do this all day long and has won class in Championships
Graham
ps: Does this make mine the CHEAPEST 400 bhp Sti?
Stock Sti v3:
20g turbo £800 rebuilt by AndyF (not new)
Apexi FC supply and map £750 (new, AndyF)
550cc injectors (2nd hand) £250
Walbro + SX reg £350 (new)
Groupe S headers + helix up-pipe £400 (ported Harvey's do just as well?)(new)
V8 TMIC home modified to fit £300 (2nd hand)
AP organic (fantastic clutch IMO) £250 new from an Snetter
Breather/parallel fuel mods £15
Second hand 3'' decat system, very quiet too £250
All DIY so no labour at all.
Cost: £ 3365
RR's gave 407 bhp and 380 bhp (different RR's of course
)Stock Sti V3 box, very sticky tyres, and 80 hillclimb runs in anger, plus 6000 road miles on Optimax with NF booster.
Now has a FMIC from Harvey (should have done that in the first place)
Stock brakes....no probs to me, but mega suspension.
DropShots Day
DropShots Day
It will do this all day long and has won class in Championships
Graham
ps: Does this make mine the CHEAPEST 400 bhp Sti?
I'd expect circa 800bhp for £20k
Andy
07 November 2006, 04:42 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Brun
I see one or two people have mentioned expensive brakes. You do not "need" massive brakes regardless of power 
The brakes on a standard 276 BHP car are poor, and you are putting almost 50% more power on the ground.
07 November 2006, 05:45 PM
#60
scoobytc:
You only need the 2.5 for more torque/drivability.
I am sure a 2 litre @ 380 x 350 is much slower than a 2.5 @ 380 x 400; the torque will make all the difference (to the gearbox too...)
My Sti @ 380 x 360 ish is a great hard edged drive which the chassis is happy with also, and within my cr@p driving ability.
Graham
You only need the 2.5 for more torque/drivability.
I am sure a 2 litre @ 380 x 350 is much slower than a 2.5 @ 380 x 400; the torque will make all the difference (to the gearbox too...)
My Sti @ 380 x 360 ish is a great hard edged drive which the chassis is happy with also, and within my cr@p driving ability.
Graham