stilover

So you don't remember Schuey signing for Ferrari when they were nowhere?

So you don't remember the 2 years that the Williams were the Superior cars, yet Schuey in a slower car drove the wheels off it to take the Championship down to the wire?

So you don't remember the 2 years that the McLarens were the superior cars, yet Schuey in a slower car drove the wheels off it to take the Championship down to the wire?

Schuey was/is the best F1 driver in history. The likes of Senna and Prost would have jumped ship to the fastest cars (Williams then McLaren) and won the Championship every year. Schuey has to be given alot of credit for going to a team that was languishing mid-grid, and made them a championship winning team. He deserved to have the fastest car after what he did for them.

DR Motorsport

Schumacher certainly played a part in taking Ferrari back to the top, but remember when he left the then championship winning Benneton team, Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn went to Ferrari too . Pretty sure they played a major part too.

The advantage Schumacher had was he's always had a team-mate that's ready to roll over to help him, and a helpful brother (Canada a few years back - faster Williams but no attempts to pass him)

I don't think he fancied racing against Kimi as equal number one next year, simple as that. So better to go out near the top than being blown away by the same car. Even Massa has been quicker than him recently, and he's not exactly great.

Unless you have a really good car, you won't win. Schumacher showed that last year, when he was nowhere, even if he was regarded the best driver.

Senna on the otherhand won the Championship in 1991 when his McLaren was way behind a Williams in chassis and power.
And in 1993 he blew Schumacher away using the "B-spec" Cosworth engine, compared to the "A-spec Benneton and Schumacher used. 5 wins to 1. And Schumacher was in his 3rd season then, so no rookie.

Don't think I was a Senna fan, I wasn't I always wanted "our Nige" to win, and Senna was his main competition along with Prost,. But when Senna was killed, I genuinely missed watching him on the track, I don't think I'll be missing Schumacher.

I've watched F1 since the mid 80's and the best I've seen was Senna. I wasn't even born when Clark or Fangio were about, but speak to the older generation, and they're regarded as the best.


David

stilover

That's true. It is a team sport afterall.

I remember listening to a TV interview with Ross Brawn when he was asked what makes Michael so great.
His response was that when required Michael could put in 15-20 qualifying laps at any point to give himself an advantage come the pit stops. He also said that Michael was the best test driver he'd ever seen, purely because he was so consistent, that when they stuck a new part on the car, they'd know if it made it faster or not. He'd never seen another driver be able to do that.

A great driver shouldn't always be assessed purely on a race weekend.

chippy17

of the highest order, Schuey got his own back by passing him

JPF

iTrader: (1)

Yes I do remember and I don't disagree that Schumacher is a great driver but you have to admit that the team and the car technology are more to do with results now than they ever where, I think Jenson Button is probably a good example of this, hes a really good driver but wont win a championship with BAR(at the moment) as the few F1 races I have bothered to watch recently his engine always blows on him, now you could blame the driver for pushing the car too hard but isn't that what they're supposed to be doing? and how are you supposed to win a championship if your car is unreliable.
DR Motorsport has a good point about having a team mate that's ready to roll over too, a good example being when Barrichello slowed down at the end of a race to let Schumacher past just before the finish line

Senna and Prost didn't jump ship though did they? I mean if Senna won in an apparently inferior car in 91, besides the differences in the cars back then was nowhere near as much as now.

I maybe wrong in all I say(and you'll probably say I am) I'm know expert, all I know is F1 used to be exiting and now over the last few years its just got dull and predictable.....in fact not so long ago I actually fell asleep watching it

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

IMHO shueys drive yesterday said more about him than winning, certainly the race and possibly the championship..!

He will be missed and definitely the last of a kind. No other driver has the determination/competitiveness/ruthlessness, regardless of the odds, every second they're behind the wheel. How many times do you see drivers settling for a position with a few laps to go..! LOL, Remember Ralf (and someone else..?) moaning about MS passing them on the line to take the position at Monaco c2005..?

F1's too soft these days, too many rules, too many driver aides and it's resulted in soft (playstation) drivers.

Out of interest, what would the points table have looked like under the old scoring system (ie 10-6-4-3-2-1)..?

B9GLY

JPF i would say you couldnt be more wrong with a few of your comments, this year has been one of the best years in the past 5/6 for F1, there is alot more competition and more overtaking now!

Also, how can you comment on current F1 when you barely watch it?????????????

andythejock01wrx

Absolutely !! Excellent post Stilover !

The facts speak for themselves with regard to Schumacher. How can anyone draw reference to the fact he was in a "good car" ? It's true, but there are normally 3 or 4 competitive teams each year, and it seems no coincidence that only Scumacher won 7 championships in the period concerned !

He was the best and he'll be missed. End of story !

Fantom

Just done a quick calculation. If the point system was (10,6,4,3,2,1) as it used to be, the results would be:

MS - 104
FA - 116

So Alonso still the winner.

pippyrips

there were rumors that the deal was done before the start of this season - if that was the case Mclaren was expected to do big things based on winter testing

Bonehead

He signed at the backend of 05 when Mclaren had won 10 of the years races IIRC

Hopefully his arrival will give them a kick up the ****.

I've always supported him but I do think Raikonnens a lazy bugger.
Schumacher's work ethic shows in his results.
That's what impresses me the most about him.
15 seasons on he still had the hunger to fight all the way.

It'll be weird without him.

Vegescoob

Michael Schumacher professes to not being interested in records.
I don't believe that. I think he would have wanted to be the first to win every race in the season.
Juan Manuel Fangio won his last title at the age of 55.
Who will beat that?
I wasn't a Schumacher fan until 3 seasons ago, when I realised the depth of his abilities. It was things like Ross Brawn saying how much he had in reserve to the extent that he could be leading a race and arranging, over the radio, his timing for leaving the circuit and looking at the big screens around the track.
Similar to Fangio, who avoided the debris from an, unseen to him, crash round a corner. When asked by an interviewer how he did this, he replied that he could see that the spectators in the grandstand were looking away from him as he approached the corner so knew something had happened.
That is what makes the few who are truly great. Always spare brain capacity even when piloting F1 cars flat out.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Always remember Brundle saying about when he was shumys team-mate at Benetton (in MS's 1st season iirc). He was leading schumacher, thinking he'd got the measure of him, when actually shuey was just biding his time watching Brundles rear tyres going off (which even Brundle wasn't aware of). Within a few laps Brundle made an error (due to tyres) and MS pounced. MB was super impressed with his level of awareness at such a young age.

How many times have you seen Shuey get out of his car in parc Fermi (sp?) post qually or race and look over the other cars (particularly the tyre degradation). Can't recall anyone else doing this.

Information is power.. Remember Clarkson doing the reaction test with Michael and actually having the same reaction time..? Just went to prove that his (MS not JC) ability is largely down to excellent perception/awareness..!

T-gro

Really?

You think the ability to daydream while in a car has more value than sharing equal status with a great driver and risking everything to actually demonstrate that you are faster than anyone else in a situation of equivalence?

That is why Prost and Senna are undoubted legends, but why Schumacher will always have to have his "achievements" analysed and assessed before inclusion in any all time lists.

Mind you, you do have to give him credit that, more often than not, and probably not ONLY because the entire focus of his team was behind him, he was comprehensively faster than Jos Verstappen, Eddie Irvine and Reubens Barrichello.

Simply awesome.

pnbond007

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=DR Motorsport]
The advantage Schumacher had was he's always had a team-mate that's ready to roll over to help him, and a helpful brother (Canada a few years back - faster Williams but no attempts to pass him)


Didn't Eddie Irvine get pretty close to winning a championship, being helped by Schumacher.

Was it 1999 when Michael crashed at Silverstone....

Irvine often get's missed, he too was a good driver in Ferrari, obviously not in Michaels league.

Michael's retirement will be a huge loss to F1, Alonso or any other just ain't got it.

My next driver to focus on will be Louis Hammilton, been watching him for years going through the ranks. Don't be suprised to see him in a Ferrari one day, he'll find his feet in Mclaren then move on to a higher profile team/family.

Red Rocket 11166

PNB,

Talking about being a champion ,it's about time you got that "R" up the hill.

Cheers Red.