Whats More Important? BHP or Torque
20 November 2001, 08:57 AM
#31
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Erm, Trout ? Why the mad smiley ?? Was my comment offending in any way ? So full of errors it made you mad ?
>>....WRC cars have 300bhp and over 450ft lbs of torque - it depends on how the car is set up and the peak flow restrictions.
Erm, again, I think I already knew that, if you would carefully read my comments, you would see that's exactly what I was saying ?
>>I'll take one of them thank you.
Not for the road you wouldn't. It would run like a bag of nails without the ALS.
Theo
>>....WRC cars have 300bhp and over 450ft lbs of torque - it depends on how the car is set up and the peak flow restrictions.
Erm, again, I think I already knew that, if you would carefully read my comments, you would see that's exactly what I was saying ?
>>I'll take one of them thank you.
Not for the road you wouldn't. It would run like a bag of nails without the ALS.
Theo
20 November 2001, 01:11 PM
#33
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Some pretty stupid comments going on here.
Power and torque are related so you can't say one is more important than the other.
However if you take two 3-series. The one with the most power will be the fastest regardless of the torque. The performance is related to torque AND revs because high revs allow you to run a lower gear and hence multiply the basic torque.
A torque figure on it's own is meaningless. A power figure on it's own is meaningless also but will generally give a better quick performance guide.
If you reckon torque is more important then you reckon a 330d accelerates faster than an M3 which is clearly wrong.
But as mentioned before, the touque curve is the most useful indicator. From this you can derive the power curve. A nice linear smooth flat curve which doesn't drop off quickly is the key.
Power and torque are related so you can't say one is more important than the other.
However if you take two 3-series. The one with the most power will be the fastest regardless of the torque. The performance is related to torque AND revs because high revs allow you to run a lower gear and hence multiply the basic torque.
A torque figure on it's own is meaningless. A power figure on it's own is meaningless also but will generally give a better quick performance guide.
If you reckon torque is more important then you reckon a 330d accelerates faster than an M3 which is clearly wrong.
But as mentioned before, the touque curve is the most useful indicator. From this you can derive the power curve. A nice linear smooth flat curve which doesn't drop off quickly is the key.
20 November 2001, 01:50 PM
#37
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Danny,
As Dingy has pointed out, I was on about Monte (who undoubtadly has one of the most powerfullest and quickest ROAD cars in the country..........when it is running!!!)
As Dingy has pointed out, I was on about Monte (who undoubtadly has one of the most powerfullest and quickest ROAD cars in the country..........when it is running!!!)
20 November 2001, 09:31 PM
#43
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....and here is an, 'Oh, really'...in a post-modern ironic way.
You asked me to read your post closely, I ask you to look at the smileys closely.
Chill and enjoy
ALS - why turn it off
Trout
You asked me to read your post closely, I ask you to look at the smileys closely.
Chill and enjoy
ALS - why turn it off
Trout
21 November 2001, 06:31 AM
#45
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One of the reasons you can get by on track with less torque in an Integra is probably due to lower weight allowing you to carry more speed through the corners, and at higher revs. I'm guessing here, but it is probably like 125cc GP bikes - they have small power, but weigh as much as a piece of toast, so to do fast laps you don't brake much and hold onto as much speed as humanly possible through the corners whilst keeping the revs up. A heavy, huge power 500cc GP bike comes flying in to a bend at much higher speed, jams on the anchors and uses all that power to squirm and slide its way out of the bend. It would be interesting to see which carries the most speed through a bend!
Other than that, from the 3 wheel action I've seen, Honda drivers tend to try very hard on the track at Scoob days!
Other than that, from the 3 wheel action I've seen, Honda drivers tend to try very hard on the track at Scoob days!
22 November 2001, 08:31 AM
#46
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However if you take two 3-series. The one with the most power will be the fastest regardless of the torque. The performance is related to torque AND revs because high revs allow you to run a lower gear and hence multiply the basic torque.
A torque figure on it's own is meaningless. A power figure on it's own is meaningless also but will generally give a better quick performance guide.
If you reckon torque is more important then you reckon a 330d accelerates faster than an M3 which is clearly wrong.
A torque figure on it's own is meaningless. A power figure on it's own is meaningless also but will generally give a better quick performance guide.
If you reckon torque is more important then you reckon a 330d accelerates faster than an M3 which is clearly wrong.
The M3 has almost as much torque and almost twice the BHP. However, if you take the 330 petrol and 330 diesel the results are more relevant.
330i - 231bhp, 221lb/ft
330d - 184bhp, 288lb/ft
0-60 aside (the diesel will always be slower off the line), the overall performance is very similar, and the diesel has it in mid range.
To help launch the 330d, BMW got a number of motoring hacks and motorsport pseudo 'stars' to drive 330d's and 330i's around a track (new N'burgring IIRC), times were almost identical and more managed to pilot the oil-burner round the circuit faster than the petrol than the other way around!!
When I changed cars, I went to get a 330i and the dealer (who is also a friend) bet me £1000 that if I drove the 'd' back to back with the 'i' I would prefer the oil-burner. He won! I bought the 330d! Performance was identical, but the petrol seemed really peaky compared to the diesel, and was constanly hunting for the right gear (both autos). Add in better mpg, better residuals etc, it was a no brainer.
[Edited by GaryC - 11/22/2001 8:32:47 AM]
22 November 2001, 09:17 AM
#47
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...and if the WRC Ford Focus on Driven last night can do 0-60 in 2.48 secs (*allegedely*) with 20 hp more than my P1, then I'll have more torque please
Any idea how much torque the WRCs have - I seem to recall someone telling me that are around 520????
Any idea how much torque the WRCs have - I seem to recall someone telling me that are around 520????
23 November 2001, 02:16 AM
#49
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Torque is the initial shove of acceleration you get, bhp is a measure of how long it can be sustained up the rev range.
So BHP is more important for straight line speed, because you can sustain the acceleration for longer. But in situations where sustained acceleration is not very important, such as a twisty road, higher torque over a more limited power band is more useful and gives good in gear times for small changes in speed (e.g. 40-55).
So BHP is more important for straight line speed, because you can sustain the acceleration for longer. But in situations where sustained acceleration is not very important, such as a twisty road, higher torque over a more limited power band is more useful and gives good in gear times for small changes in speed (e.g. 40-55).
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