David_Wallis

because Imho, the 257 is a 257 and if your going to mod a block then why start with a saleable block. Its not for me to discuss some points that have been pointed out to me by steve, as I suspect I was told in confidence.

I also 'personally' dont like the idea of reving a 2.5, but then I'm open to new ideas and if anybody has any suggestions then Ill consider it.

David

R19KET

David,

First I think you need to take peoples requirements in the context of what they are aiming for, and secondly, I think you should go out with Kevin in his EJ257'd 22B.

For up to circa 450bhp/450ftlb an EJ257 with forged pistons, and better rods is not only the nicest car to drive, it's also relatively cheap, compared to some options.


Mark.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

lol, it comes down to Yorkshire maths then I thought you were going to extol the virutes of one block over another, but its a money saving device.
I get it now

David_Wallis

I know that, but Im just answering the question of 'could' you do that to a 257.. and 'would' you do that to a 257.

I 100% agree with a 257 with rods and pistons, but from 'my' point of view it will simply $hit itself for what I want... Im going to need to rev my new engine, and capactity would help, now if you think we can build a nice revving 2.5 without me spending silly money on a crank, then we need to talk!!

As for going out in the scoobyclinic car, I've been in Alan Bells and have and allways will say its the best road car I've been in and have also said I think it makes a faster car than my car or stevens.. Put it this way.. the route we took in the MG ZR, BMW 530D and Forrester.... do that route in My scoob, your scoob, stevens, and alans.. my money would be on alan's car.. even with an independant driver that doesnt know the road.

So for a simple decision, road car: ej257 with choice mods.
road car / track / drag - 2.33 (Future Proofed!!)

Besides the thread is build a 2.33


David

911

Finally got the block today after TNT fooled about a bit..
Better shape than i thought:

David_Wallis

Oh dear..

slippery slope..

911

No, 'hillclimbers do it under total control' (bull)

I will grease the bores and put it in the loft for 12 months time.
Might even appreciate in value too!

Scarey to think Lateral take credit cards...

Graham


Wish i could get my pics down to a normal size though!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

thats going to be one powerful hoover!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Graham, you can either use photo editing software to reduce the size or use photobucket which have the option of reducing the size automatically to fit into BBs.

911

Bob.
Tinypic has been great till recently when their site got all fancy and since then the pics are HUGE. There is no way to size the pics on their site at all. Irritating.
Maybe time to try another host then.
Thanks, Graham

911

2.33 verses 2.5:

2.5 short block is about £1500?
To make it strong for 450+ you need pistons and rods, but you keep the block/crank/bearings, and a 6500 red line ish.

2.33
Block costs £200
Liners cost £1500 (is that right?)
Crank costs £500 with bearings.

You get 450+ x 450+ ish and the 8000 red line.

That difference costs you £1000 I think, as you need rods/pistons anyway for both.

Food for thought?
But it is not just about money is it? (?)

Graham

911

Testing pics!
911hillclimber - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

That's better!
I didn't expect piston squirters in this block, but I don't know if my Sti V3 open deck has them (my 1973 911 does!)

The Fixer

Graham, you asked for one of the better ones and thats what I sent lol

£1500 for liners????

Your going to the wrong people, if you want it doing for sensible money drop me a pm.

Regards

Conrad

911

Hello Conrad:
Dead chuffed with the block!
The 'SMG' cost is only what I recall reading ages ago, so could be very wrong.
Care to pm me an indicative price to supply/fit liners to 2.33 and to do the crank thrust bearing?

I feel i need to understand the general costs to get the bits for the short block. Then i can rest easy and plan my:
Approach to my wife...
My Bank Raid.............

R19KET

What makes it ok to rev a 97.5/98mm piston to 8000rpm, but a 99.5mm piston only to 6500rpm ?

The only difference I can think of is the 2.35lt uses a slightly longer rod, and this will help a little,

Other than that, the two engines are very similar, and if you can rev' one, you can pretty much rev the other.

But if you want good power at 7K + on either, you'll need a decent sized turbo to fill the 17.5-20% bigger capacity than a 2.0lt.


Mark.

911

Thanks Mark:

It is only what i keep reading on here.
2.5's don't like to rev (which i read as can't rev) like a Sti 2 litre.

With the Type R box going into my hillclimber the 8000 red line is essential.

For economics sake I want to keep the 20g I have with all the other bits to compliment it, and i think it will be 'ok' at 7 to 8 K.
For my purposes i am not trying to squeeze the last bhp out of the engine, but get a good torque at low revs and still stretch to 8 K to 'just' reach the next hairpin bend...rather than change gear.
GT/twisted induction can come later with the ppg box.

So;

Take one USA 2.5, change the rods/pistons (to allow for the future) and on a 20g rev to 8K, albeit at 1.1/1.2 bar.

If that can be done then the 2.5 route is best with less than 500 bhp/lbft in mind?

Graham

S,M,G

Graham

£1500, thats way over what i charge that would be including pistons! Good ones!

Steve.

S,M,G

And would almost have anough change for bearings.

Steve.

911

Thankyou for commenting Steve.

I know I have read casually about the '2.33' engine, and can only refer to my 'old man' memory!
There are several potential and active people seriously looking to this thread for this kind of information, so this is a great help to get the short block into perspective.

With this input in mind, that makes the 2.33 cheaper than an uprated internals 2.5!

Graham.

The fog is clearing for the newbies!

Andy.F

Graham

Whilst Steve does an excellent job with the linered blocks (I'm sending him one shortly) I think it is overkill for your needs.
In your position I would be going EJ257 with uprated pistons/rods.

Have you discussed with John Stevenson his 2.5 set up ? His biggest problem is controlling the power. He has just under 500/500 on the smallest turbo we can make that power on, it doesn't run out of revs either !
As its so responsive it actually feels quicker on the road than my race car

Andy

911

For ages I have thought the 2.5 would be the best hill climb engine, especially reading John Bank's adventures 12 months or more ago on the 20g.

It is to easy to race away with all this, but I will not 'build' another 'race' car after this one, so want to build a bit of future into the engine in a years time.

The 2.5 seems to need some internal help if you want to build it once.
So you are forced to buy the USA new short engine and strip it/uprate to bring it on parr with the built 2.33.

I am increasingly sure that the 2.33 built is as costly as the built 2.5 as a short block.
Either engine will take my 'externals' and make about 400+ x 400 ish, but then this is with the 20g.

John has a twisted turbo etc and so that adds another £1500 nett. iirc that change transformed the engine for this year?
Perhaps I should email John and see what his engine contains so to speak as he must have the fastest hillclimb Impreza anywhere in the UK.

I am very happy to salt the block away for a year, and with this excellent thread I'm glad not to be rushing into it.

It is great to get the views of the experts on here!

Lots to consider, and 'responsive' is a great quality in any engine.

Graham

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Graham, if your ever near were I live (York) your welcome to have a go in my 2.5 444+/444+ thats min ??? cheers Alan.

911

!
That is a very kind offer Alan. York is not far from me (West Midlands) and our company Head Office is in Harrogate, so I might take you up on that!
Engines are hard work....to deceide on.

To refect on all this:

What does a 2.5 with the right pistons/rods/bearings cost roughly?

Graham.

John Stevenson

More than happy to share Graham, the 2.5 was most excellent using the 20G Turbo, tha car is very much harder to drive using the current one. With the current internals my redline is way way north of 6500. PM me.

---john---

unfeasablylargegonads

iTrader: (3)

no rating on this thread and its one of the best ones I have come across on here for a while (I am looking for a suitable turbo for my built 2.5), anyway its got a few stars now

LOL, well it would do if rate thread thing worked, *sigh* anyway good luck with the builds.

911

Thread rating died on here about 12 months ago or more! Shame.

John: I value your input very much as you are the top hillclimber in the class:
911hillclimber - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Sorry, a doodle from years ago!

Can anyone answer roughly #143, $$$ for a built 2.5? (I think MarkA has the answer but he bought his from Crawford done with CP pistons and Pauter rods iirc, but i want to assemble the engine myself)
I have spotted a small article in Jap Perf Mag about Harvey's Impreza running a twisted 20g. Is there much point in that as an aside?

In all this my excellent Sti v3 engine runs 380 x 360 at PowerStation RR and if you keep in the boost it is a fab engine thanks to AndyF of course, but you can fall below 3500/4K so easy on a hillclimb and this is my prime objective here, a much fatter mid range as John knows too well.
It has been utterly reliable for 6000 miles and 20 hillclimbs.

Graham

WRX RCY

Can 2.0 CDB be machined to a 2.5?

911

There is a picture of one from Bigfella on this thread #41
Graham

911

Can you get just the block for a 2.5 rather than the short USA engine?

Daveo

This is a great thread.

Those seem great prices Graham.

Back in May 2004 when my big end let go, I went down the 2.2 HKS stroker route. The reason being a) I Had a bit of spare cash at the time and b) I hadn't heard of scoobynet etc and all the different options available to me. It was expensive, as was the whole build, but i wanted reliability and upgradeability. My original sti 6 ej20 block was bored out to fit the stroker kit and the original heads went back on.

I'm in the middle of buying alan bell's td06 49 and will be getting it fitted in January along with some lateral 550cc injectors (flowed for 800cc) and various other goodies i've been accumulating.

Great this scooby thing, ain't it?

Dave