ex-webby

Mark,

My Rs500 (2ltr) was getting 500+ at about the rpm you suggest (with redline at 7800rpm) on a T4 producing 2.4bar.

Sorry for high jacking the thread, but I just wanted further clarification on the 2.33 vs 2.5 (with specifics around the HG issues in high boost applications), but as you say, if having the right turbo achieves the desired power levels (whether that be 500bhp, 600bhp or whatever) at <2bar I neednt worry about that side of things.

Regards,
Shaun.

The Fixer

Shaun, bear in mind there are two types of 2.5, EJ257 & built 2.5 using EJ22t block relinered to 2.5Litres. We didnt have any headgasket issues on the latter using the RCM big stud kit but have had a few EJ257's in with headgasket issues. People building these budget EJ257's fail to see that there is more work required than just bolting on heads designed for a 92.5mm bore thus problems occur further down the line.

Conrad

911

Thanks Mark for the info.
I now have a promise on a CDB.....heaven help me now.

Graham

The Fixer

Well done Graham, you have just stepped on the.....



Its all down hill from here...... lol

911

I know....still trying to explain to the wife what a good thing I've just done.
Good job the meal was good tonight.

(exciting prospect though!)

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

You do realise you will have no excuses next year Graham

Here's an offer for you, I am aiming to get mine back up and running fairly soon (before december). Once its alive again, i will let you know, we can then arrange a time and place for a comparison on a "hillclimbish" venue (i have one near by, if you struggle), and you can then compare it from the drivers seat!

You HAVE started on the right path!

Steven

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

i dont know if i can speak for all but if your not bothered about your car being off the road for a long time do it

911

But I have a plan. (and an excuse for next year too).
The Sti is now off the road (but thanks Steven) and will get:

Type R TY754 box/dccd/Neetronics (fed-up trying to find a controller)
Plated rear diff instead of the visc Sti diff.
Helical front diff into the above.
Avon full hill climb slicks.

If i have time I will rotate the inlet as I will be bored and hate the long pipes of the FMIC. I like making brackets and welding.
Might even 'rotate' the 20g so the outlet is pointing at the cone filter so removing the 180 deg bend. Not rotating in the classical sense (bit like Fuzz's turbo) Jest need to remount the actuator.

2007 will be collecting parts for the 2.2/2.33 engine build ready for Xmas 07.
I will be amazed if I can resist doing the 2.33 on the 20g route to see what that will produce in torque/drivability.

Bad news will be I will be broke, and have no excuses then.

I prey that the EVO will have retaired by then, but then there are the rest of the Young Ones and the AUDI V8 for my ego to deal with.

The originator of this thread and Conrad have a LOT to answer for. I wasn't going to do any of this EVER.

Graham

ex-webby

Graham,

I said that when I bought my UK Newage Scoob. UK car, full Subaru warranty, make do with the PPP. 4 weeks later I traded it in for a Spec C and now look at the car.

Never say Never.... as with many people, I did and look where it got me.

Regards,
Shaun.

Andy.F

I have kept my std spec C 'std' for over a month now !! That must be some sort of record on its own
Although I did block off the dump valve, frig the neutral switch and pump the tyres up a bit

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Or if really adventurous there are three, EJ20 bored and relinered to 2.5

David_Wallis

What dia bore are you running ??

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

99.5 and 79 crank

911

Oldfella:
That pic even looks sensible in terms of proportions of the bores/wall etc.
Surely that would stop any chances of gasket failure?

BUT: The engine will not rev like a 2.33/2.2/2.0 engine??

I've just asked Mark (Lateral) but what are the approx costs of parts for a 2.33 short block? (just the big bits!) and what manufacturers are the best (ie proven) for the pistons/rods.
Sorry for all the questions but you all know I am a starter.
This is snowballing already...

Graham.

ps: Andy: Will the 20g work well on a 'simple' 2.33 and will I need bigger injectors (they are 550 cc now)? And I doubt anyone believes you about the Spec C...Hope you have some plans for it.

renno rannes

Very intrested in this thread aswell. Keep the info coming

simbo

yeah looks like ive started something here lol

david

renno rannes

Am I right in saying that the 550cc Injectors will go to 430 or 440bhp and the TD05 20g would not be able go that far unless on fancey fuels ?

Then the 740cc injectors will handle well over 500 brake ?????

Renno

renno rannes

Yeah looks like it alright

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

i think the 20g would be a bad choice of turbo with that engine as without a doubt it is the limiting factor on power !!!

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

I would think the gaskets are just as likely to fail as any cdb. I have not run a lot of boost yet (1.4 bar)

The revs, I agree. I had the engine built as a 2.5 purely as I already had new pistons and rods c/o Mr Lateral and heads chambered for the larger bores, for another project that went belly up. If the situation had been different, I would have gone 2.33

911

OK:
The 20g I have been told/read (ie Mr John Banks) is ballistic on a 2.5.
It is prety good on a 2 litre, ie mine, so why not a 2.33?
Please remember, i am looking for a motor full of mid range torque, not a 500+ bhp RR car. I need the revs to get from one hill climb bend to another.

Simbo: you will not be getting a Xmas card off me. I was sticking to my 2 litre until you started this one!
Mind you, still could. A 'built' 2 litre could be useful, but i fancy doing a real engine strip and build, getting bored with the car as it is.

Steve: (#49) so what would you think is a good turbo without twisting anything?

Anyone: Any thoughts on injector size?

Graham

renno rannes

What would a TD06 49 be like on it ? Would the increased fuel pressure mean that you could keep the 550cc Injectors.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

id go porper td06 as its not over the top , if your just gonna stick with a 20g there isnt really much point on building a big spec engine as the boost will still tail off at 1.4bar, and you could do that on a cheaper built 2ltr engine

wrx450

I went through this way back in 2001. Ran a VF22 with a TRP stroker kit 92.5x 79mm and 550 cc injectors. In the end both the turbo and injectors were limiting factors at about 300hp atw. Injectors limited to 280hp atw and with bigger 720cc got to 310hp atw. This seemed to be the limit of the VF22.

Now run a GT35 with these same injectors and am at 400hp atw on 1.7 bar. Only difference is 93mm bore.

Engine pulls to over 8000rpm but even with 400hp atw I am off the pace of a 2.5 ltr with a vf22 and 330hp atw on hillclimbs. Similar setup in other areas. His power is all over by 6000rpm but it builds boots from 2500rpm. I think at least for hilclimbs and realworld use, the extra capacity and throttle response of the 2.5 makes a big difference rather than the higher hp and rpms attainable from the smaller capacity.

I am also considering a 2.5ltr with the GT35 once I work out why the car does not move.(see my thread under drivetrain). Have had good results on another car with VF34,better respnse than VF22.

911

Mmmm:

The 20g will not fill the engine at (say) 6500+ rpm hence the 'low' boost?
Mine is mapped by AndyF @ 1.6 bar on my stock Sti v3 2 litre.

Best I talk to Andy!

I don't want to go twisted/Gt30 etc at this point.

I do want to build a strong short block for the future, even if i don't max-out the 2.33 just now.
My 550cc inj's are not maxed-out at the moment at 3 bar and this turbo/map.

I'm starting to get confused!
Graham.

S.P.Developments

Hello Graham,

440, modified should do the trick, after all we are not drag cars..

John

Ps the car is taking shape...ish..

Scoobyslammed

When I was building my 2.35 for my Ver4 STi type R... I was advised by Andy F... and brought off him a Garrett hybrid turbo that bolts up in standard position, and 800cc injectors ( soon to be fitted now nearly run in... 1700miles ish )... Phew!!! The turbo and injectors cost me near 2K...
I'm only running 14psi at the mo... 25psi soon... but it pulls like a f**King ****... its just damm crazy to drive...lol

911

So:
From all this discussion mostly based on fact, a 20g on a 2.33 is not going to work well enough to do justice to the engine?

I find it hard to understand that the 20g on a 2 litre is very good, and told that a 20g on a 2.5 is fantastic.

The 2.33 inbetween should be 'inbetween' these 2 statements?

If nothing else, it won't be too bad!

Hillclimb engines are about mid range torque and drivability, not max bhp for 1500 rpm band etc.

Graham

wrx450

I think that the 20G will work fine on any of the sizes 2.15, 2.33 or 2.5. I do not see why the 2.33 should be any different apart from more torque and possibly response, than the 2 and 2.15. I think in the end it may come down to the differences in cost as if it is built right it does not make a difference what size the engine is.

The 20G is probably a correct real world size of turbo where you are using a range between 3-6000 rpm especially on a hillclimb. If it gives you the horsepower and torque that you need (rather than want) there is no requirment for any bigger.

I have made the mistake with the GT35 and have to keep it in a rev range of 5-8000rpm, not very easy on a tight twisting hillclimb course and a bit scary when it does kick in, (although the car was originally used for drag racing in Oz).

renno rannes

So is that one up from a TD06 then yeah.