scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Nice to see quite a few new and old faces!

Quite happy with my slightly modded Focus RS producing 252bhp 288lb/ft

Think I need a new turbo and should be seeing 300/300(just dont tell the missus)

5cby

heres my graph
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...o/DSC01014.jpg
run was abandoned(boosting problems) at 221.5hp
hit 0.6 bar then flattened
think it maybe the actuator or soleniod or maybe some thing else
any1 got any ideas

car is running full decat,k+n panel filter and a scoobyecu with a 16.5psi map
its fine upto where the boost flattens
even pulls ok


steve(gutted)

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys sounds lke you had a good time..

What did they connect up monitor wise and how was the cooling..?

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

Sorry to here this steve not good news get it checked up the clinic

scooby-k

don't know about the monitor but the cooling was fine IC temp rose 10 degrees C on my power run. We were able to sit in the car during the power run which was good experience. All the scoobs were running rich and lost approx 10 bhp because of this.
ken P1 300 bhp

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Facilities were good and the cooling fans were very adequate as stated charge temps were well under control..... runs taken in 3rd i belive on all cars,mine for deff anyways but running very rich indeed and not the power figures i was expecting at all,but the first dyno day ive been to that ive run the car on so an expeence non the less,but to have a focus not far behind is not good
my spec is my00 wrx wagon ,ported td05fe,ported headers and up pipe,walbro 255 pump,decat exhaust, 2004 wrx intercooler with tilt kit splitter and boost controlled water spray,all engine breathers to catch can,apexi power fc and 3 port boost solenoid making 1.35 bar.... power 288hp but very rich indeed which is a mystery as when it was mapped im assured it was certainly not like that,might be the difference between real world road conditions and the artificial nature of a dyno im not sure... but room for improvement thats for certain.... rentone (james) car has shown 320 before and that again was very rich at 282hp.... si's car with a recent 2.5 build and 20g turbo made almost the same power as when it was a 2.0 back in feb i think at a chipped uk rolling road day..... again also very rich..... some strange results..... o heres my graph too

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

Trying not to be negative on this issue but i aint spoke to any 1 who was happy to be honest ????

And all them up grades to that wagon should easy get 300 + in my exsperiance


my m3 smg is 340 on paper standard so i think i will get it chipped and then go to 1 see u at next 1 steve ....

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

I thought it was my day when I saw 394 but they couldnt reproduce it on further runs but i was happy with 380ish

yet again I was told my fueling was out, but took it with a pinch of salt as so many others had simular issues, mine was not as bad as some

on the other hand what a tidy setup they had, warmest and most relaxed rolling road day I have been to - no frezzing in the cold at weston

would be interesting to get an experts review of this


edited to add

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...ml#post6302165

lets see what we get

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

This running rich issue seems a bit strange, how were they monitoring AFR's..?

Also, do any of you know what tranny losses they were using and why 3rd when everyone else (ie scoob experienced) know 4th is best..? Is this why WRX Rich got nearer his expected figures because he insisted on 4th..?

These were my original concerns, when this day was first organised, just how familiar are these guys at DD's and scoobs..!
At the end of the day they have 1st class equipment, but it means SFA if they don't know how to use it..!

Sorry to say this, but I'm glad I couldn't come..

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

in the end he could get simular figures in 3rd or 4th - its all a bit over my head
he got 350 at one point, shock horror must rebuild

Bob Rawle

Rich your fueling is definately NOT out, and to get that variability smacks of an amount of inexperience in running Scoobs, also intake temp is no measure of charge temps which can easily be in the 60-70 degree area if cooling fans are poorly positioned, how far back from the front of the car were they ? If you got 394 on your first run then that would be when the car stood the best chance, anything later would be causing grief if poor cooling was in place.

My car always produced virtualy identical graphs in 4th and 5th at G-Force, however my boost control allows it to make full boost on rollers in almost any gear, most cars make less in 3rd than 4th and see an apparant power drop, BUT thats only roller's related since loading up a car in a lower gear to a constant accelleration give's an entirely differnet picture to reality.

5 speed cars should be run in 4th to get the load impedance right, six speeders also.

I can't really believe that most of the cars run were actually "rich", can you email me your own graphs btw, would like to have a look. All the variants if you can.

Jasonius you will recall my recent email on this subject !!

cheers

bob

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

please don't think i am questioning my car as i know how well it runs on the road, im just trying to help some of the guys who were worried about their results


Bob I know my fuelings fine on the road, you only need to look at that big rich spot on mine early in the rev range, i watched it drop to below 80 on the psi3 whilst on the rollers- I can not get anything like this on the road Im guessing the load on the rollers cause's the car to go in to an area of the map which we don't see on the road

I only have one graph which was one of the latter runs, to be fair I think the first run was 350 , second 394 and then there after it settled around 380 we ran the car enough to shoot the coolant temps around 110 degrees

the run was also done with the bonnet open which i am not used to but I think mine was the only car to be run like this as he said it had the fmic - still another reason why i don't compare to other rr days


thanks for the input, I'm hoping you will put allot of peoples minds at rest

Bob Rawle

110 degrees coolant, well then the cooling fans are definately not up to it, thats dangerous territory to be in.

I realise where you are coming from, and I agree with your sentiments.

Still like to look at whatever graphs you do have if poss.

cheers

bob

Neilo

Bob, just a side query on this one, how would you guarantee hitting the boost target on the rollers? would a dawes ( i know they are your favourite items suffice?

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

I do, hence my initial questions about their scoob experience..

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

you can see the fan in this pic



Please do not think I am here to say anything bad about Weston just trying for other opinions - to be fair the guys were more than helpfull and as i say apart from the results the most well organised and techically advanced with regards videos \ tv screens rr day i have been on - not to mention one of the cleanest garages i have ever seen

my PSI3 says ( after just checking) 108 degrees coolant and peak boost 1.4 dead but sat in the car I noticed this only happened in 3rd, I set my defis to blip at 1.4 defi units ( what ever they are) which happens 99% of the time on the road , happened once or twice on rollers and did not hold

the intake temp was about 50 near the end 30ish at the start - all reading from psi3 until so not sure how accurate these are, was good to be able to sit in the car and see all this so credit to weston

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

oi no cheating Neil i want to see real results

rigga

iTrader: (4)

was deff a nice set up.....

rentonone

iTrader: (1)

i thought the cooling fans was really good, my inlet temps stayed very low, my bhp was a bit lower than before, i got 265bhp,272bhp then 282bhp. but on my previous dynos ive had a 310bhp at powerstation and a 306bhp at chipped uk. I carnt understand it though because my mates nearly standard uk classic turbo got 244bhp and my mates supra with a decat got 389bhp. Johns focus rs also got 251bhp.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

The print out above shows a TN value of 4.511 for a UK car- what transmission figure does that relate to? Gear x final diff ratio?
Other DD graphs I've seen on UK cars have a TN of 3.454.


Nick

Neilo

that would be my point though rich, my car never makes the road boost target on the rollers, so you will never see the "true" value...

ive already had mine on the rollers but with a strangled up pipe and it only made 354, a far cry from the 410 or whatever its subjectively supposed to be (mainly due to the up pipe bore), boost only hitting 1.38 where its mapped for 1.55 etc etc...

the up pipe situation will be sorted out but that still doesnt deter from the fact that without independant boost control the car will never make 1.55 on the rollers.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

If I'm working this out correctly 4.511 = 22% aprox and 3.454 =29%..?

IIRC the accepted figures are: UK turbo= 25%, UK STi DCCD 23% and JDM STi DCCD 22%..?

Now if Weston are underestimating the tranny losses (by using 22% instead of say 25%) that would explain all your lower figures..

Even coolant temps of 108c are way too high IMHO and if the intake is around 50c whats the charge temp going to be..?!! Basically your car isn't going to run very well at all. This would also fit with the more standard scoobs doing better as they have greater margins for dealing with such conditions..

I'm not having a dig either. Infact I'd like Weston to do well as they have the gear/setup and are only 10 mins from me. If we can shed some light on these scoob runs we could be doing them a big favour IMHO..

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Further to this tranny loss question: did any of you get a WHP figure..? This could confirm the figs they used..

rigga

iTrader: (4)

That might well explain it as its not a uk car..... its a wrx import wagon

Bob Rawle

I've had sight of a UK WRX cars graph and a P1, both had the same TN fig when both have significantly different gearing ...

That fan pic looks as though its the one perched on top of something but is that just a second fan on top the "box" which was the main fan.

Intake temp figs are no indicator of charge temps, the PSi 3 only logs air temp at the maf on a new age not charge and thats what counts.

BTW the fans need to be aimed specifically at the scoop for a top mount car in addition to making sure the rad gets a good dose.

cheers

bob

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Bob.... that fan was indeed perched on top of a box which housed the main cooling fans.... the top one was aimed at the scoop to cool the intercooler on tmic cars...... have a temp probe in the hose after the intercooler to throttle body and temps were never that high,if i recall they reached mid to high 30's on my power run,but was watching the other guages to concentrate too long on the temp as it looked well under control..... interesting on the gearing calculation used if they kept the same for the differing spec cars that were run that day,could explain the power that was produced but not the rich mixture that was evident on most cars.

martin

rentonone

iTrader: (1)

i thought they just typed in the model of the car, ie uk subaru or wrx subaru or type r subaru into the computer and it adjusted to suit as all the info was already stored in the comupter, so i dont think they measured the tranny loss as if all the subarus were the same gearing.

rigga

iTrader: (4)

James.... can you poss post up your print out,or have a look at it and see what tn number is listed on the bottom? yours being a uk spec car should be different to the number listed on the graph i posted above...... i deff told them mine was an import and therefore differently geared as he asked whether it was a uk car when he was setting it up and punching details into the computor....... more and more it seems that they are indeed unfamilier with subaru's and we might have all wasted our money as the results seem slightly worthless.

martin

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

call me dim, but what does TN actually stand for..?

rentonone

iTrader: (1)

i carnt post the gragh at the mo but here are the details off it...

bp..100.9 rh..70 at..15 it..21 rr..015 tn..4,511