Andy.F

I'm moving house this week David, you can hang on to it a bit longer if you like You seem pretty good with it !

Would 95 ron make my car go faster ? Or would I need Axis Ron for that ?

Andy

Mike Tuckwood

Hehe, this one's gonna be fun to reply to.
I'm at no loss at all David, haven't laughed so much at how this one's pulled "people" out of the woodwork. Not sure where you've got the impression that we get engines from Ron, WAY off the mark, all blueprinting and planning is specified by us, carried out locally in Nottingham, with specialist products that Google will never find for you, sorry to burst your bubble. Yet again it seems to be a case of "not often right, but wrong again."

Maybe you see it that way, maybe that's what the view is like from further out in the universe?


Haha, Ask Ian about his "discount scheme" directly, I think you'd be surprised at the answer!

That falls in entirely with my views, similarly hinting something can or might happen or could have happened, or could if you wanted it to appears to be cheaper and bears better results than actually doing it?

[QUOTE=David_Wallis]Maybe you should start thinking 'outside the box' and plan something different, rather than playing catch up...[quote]

Hmm, of course, a car with BIG power from only 95RON, cause that's not something remotely different is it. and how powerful, hold on..... Lets measure the area under the torque curve, or the power curve shall we then make a "leader (or follower if you like) board. Nah, I can't be bothered, you can if you like though.

[QUOTE=David_Wallis]Andy... I'm done with the wooden spoon.. can you pass on the forwarding address?

PS I have no axe to grind, just nothing on TV, and I suspect both myself and mike will have nothing better to do during the day.[quote]

Haha, novice stuff.


I don't class where you are as "northern".


Mike.

Mike Tuckwood

Oh dear, Andy, I thought you might have known better.
Phone me tomorrow if you like and I'll list the engineering level problems you are likely to see with an Axis engine.

You're listening to the wrong people, Is that wooden spoon big enough to keep 2 people afloat...... Err, clearly not


Mike.

Andy.F

Thanks Mike but I'm fully aware of whats in an Axis engine and what potential they have.

Andy

Mike Tuckwood

Cool, you can see why we assemble and use your <edit> where "your" should have been "our" </edit> own engines instead of buying them in then huh?



Mike.

Andy.F

Now that IS false advertising You don't use my engines Mike, they would be way too powerful for you

Mike Tuckwood

Engines aren't powerful, if you're lucky, they're strong, power is what they develop, not what they are........

"Too powerful", what's that?




Mike.

Andy.F

Now thats more like your advert

Mike Tuckwood

LOL, advert.... Hmmm, now there's an idea.



Mike.

pat

Mike,

I would have thought that my explanation of why I might have mapped my own car to run on 95 RON as being relatively complete. Others had said I'de done it, I explained why, job done. I've also mapped stuff for customers on 95 RON, and on some occasions for less than 95 RON because local fuel quality was rubbish. You can only work with what you're given.

As for speculation, I'm not sure what part of "it made over 500 BHP at 1 bar" is speculation ? It happened, and it ran a 10 second quarter at 1 bar. The 800 BHP prediction is speculation based on existing results, which include 600BHP at 1.25 bar, 500lb/ft at 1.4 bar, and 640BHP at 1.4 bar. Then the turbo ran out of air; we know this because the mass flow rate and turbine shaft speed exhibited the characteristics of compressor choke. Once we get a sufficiently large compressor on there, we'll be able to see if the prediction holds true.... thus far there is no indication that anything other than the compressor wheel is having any problems; given that we're not being adventurous with the timing and that we "only" need to find another 160BHP, I can't see why we wouldn't be able to hit that target

Cheers,

Pat.

Mike Tuckwood

I don't doubt you did map it on 95RON Pat, Wallis was implying you had BIG power out of it though, and from what you've said, you'd clearly mapped for eceonomy. You can see where there is a glaring difference.

As for the other stuff, I tend (personally) to not mention numbers in a public forum that I can't support, with graphs/pictures/the actual car Etc. You can do it however you choose to though.


Anyway, I've been told off once today already; Bruntinghtorpe now has a noise limit (87dB I think). Because of where the sound monitoring equipment was, we managed to do the high speed set-up and mapping ok, then went for a blast around.


Through the middle chicane we were exiting onto the main runway at 110mph in 5th gear........ sideways!
Got told car was too noisy shortly after so that ended the "fun" part of the day.


Mike.

ZEN Performance

Early results suggest we should be able to get around 780hp at 1.6 bar on my 2.35 with the latest mods.

Mike Tuckwood

Early results suggest that I actually stand a chance of winning the lottery.
Sorry Paul, but WTF has that got to do with this thread, who asked you for that info and in what way is it relevant to this thread?

The car being talked about here is a CUSTOMER CAR, it's NOT a ***** out competition anything!
I'm working on our Scooby Mania car now, but won't be crasse or arrogant enought to blurb out what we think it Might get, I'll wait until it's finished and done the figures Etc.


Mike. <sigh>

ZEN Performance

Nobody asked anyone to chip in actually, and I can't help but notice that I'm the only authorised advertiser amoung the various traders harping on about what they've done.

I beleive the thread title is "How much BHP/Torque from a 2.5L on 95Ron?"

No specific mention of ScoobyMania. And seeing as the thread is already full of everyone elses fantasy power figures I thought I might as well add my own!

You don't need to, there are other people here to do it for you, along with further crasse and arrogant claims about what your customer's car might get on fuel XYZ.



OOOOOOOOhhhhhhh!

I might think that was a fair comment if we had done nothing else but make hopeful power claims, but as we have demonstrated more than adequate performance so far, the power figures, whatever they may be are secondary.

Cheer up you grumpy old git, it's only a bit of fun don't you know.

Mike Tuckwood

a) This thread wasn't raised by me, it was raised by a (very happy) customer, about results we've had on another customer car, while speaking to us about his own car. He felt it might be interesting to let people know what we'd done.

b) So authorised dealer status means you need to jump in with all the others coming onto this thread, (which was solely about what we had done with a customer's car) boasting what they *might* be able to do, (in an effort to diminish our results) highlighted by a customer, about work done by a dealer (Us) in the dealer and third party section, i.e. the place its supposed to be?

Err, read it again Paul, It's clearly about Scooby Mania, as mentioned in the very first line of the post!

Yep, got to give you that one I suppose.


Hmm, not that one though. All of my figures will stand ANY level of scrutiny, pop up and see if you like, I'll show you all the graphs, so you can see they've not been photo shopped to alter temps or otherwise.

If you're referring to the analysis by Steve Simpson about differences between power on different fuels, that's based on seeing the figures on a daily (all day every day) basis, and based on having been doing this as long as we have, those figures in my professional opinion are a reasonably accurate assesment.



Oi,Bugger off.
No, to be fair, that's a good point..... if we were all down the pub in the same group, all contributors in the same group chatting about this it'd be fair......that's not the case here though is it.

What's happened here is just downright rude, people who had nothing to do with what the thread was about, have (must have) somehow had their Ego's bruised, or something to feel necessary to come along and try to "Hijack" the thread, sing their own praises \at the same time (unprompted) and try to undermine the results we've achieved on a customer car at the same time in the process.

Commercially, wherever that is, I will defend that work and you're right; as the only paying advertiser in here, you're the only one within his rights to come on here and conduct out and out direct advertising. At least be polite enough to go and start your own thread to do that in though huh?

I'll point out again that's not what I've done, all I have done is try to point out when someone has tried to "gloss over" what we've done, in a thread, substantially about us posted by a "time served" SN'er.

This is a dealer forum and in this light, feel I'm entirely justified in trying to have apples compared with apples. There have been no other apples though from what I've seen?


Mike.

ZEN Performance

Mike,

I'm cool. If the figures stand up to the normal scrutiny they are great. Gut feel says they seem optimistic for 95 ron, but then we've been doing rather better than I hoped recently on proper fuel, so it's all relative I suppose. If building an engine for 95ron from the outset, I can believe the figures.

On a serious note though. The figures mentioned "seem" high, and there isn't much to back them up (like how you managed it compared to 500hp on 98ron last year). So there will be people that shoot you down first and ask questions later. But things move on, we all know that, I would be interested to know the basics of the specs that are being used.

paul

The Fixer

Very entertaining...... sits back to enjoy

scoobyDAZZA

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Mike: Was that your WR1 that I drove past yesterday, northbound on the M1 in the afternoon? WR1 stickered with Scoobymania stickers and 520bhp plastered on the back?

Mike Tuckwood

Hi.

Yes, that was me on my way back from doing the high speed full load mapping at Bruntingthorpe, The stickers need changing of course to read the 554BHP that we finished up with, the 520 figures were done before we made some alterations which pulled the figures up further.

If yours was the DBM classic, you have something flapping around under the car, exhaust wrap maybe?



Mike.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Yes, thats the one. Its just a bit of exhaust wrapping coming loose on the downpipe.

Looked smart (minus the power bragging on the rear )

Any runs on the strip?

Mike Tuckwood

Bragging, we call it "Product information", it won't stay on the car when it goes back though, it's for shows and a photo shoot before it goes back.


No, not done any times on the strip in it as it's not our car, it belongs to a customer who I believe plans on using it to do 1/4 mile runs with anyway, I'm sure he'll let us know how it's got on once he's got it back and settled in with it.



Mike.

pat

Mike,

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that cruise economy and high power on load are mutually exclusive ? I have on many occasions mapped customers cars on 95 RON for identical reasons to my own and typically this will have a 5% hit on peak power due to the lower timing tolerance...

Perhaps you might like to consider why I might have fitted a 3 bar MAP sensor and 820cc injectors, SX fuel pressure reg, etc if I wasn't actually going to use the loud pedal ? I could have quite happily carried on with the 380cc injectors and stock MAP sensor, but of course I ran out of injector duty (at about 0.5 bar) and MAP sensor range. I won't comment about what power it was making; it wasn't ever dynoed at full load so I don't know. David thought it was quick.... his reference being a 560 BHP Impreza.

I don't recall stating any numbers I cannot support. All the dyno runs I refer to are stored on our dyno and I can print them off if I was so inclined. Where I have made a prediction it is clear that it hasn't happened yet, and that it is subject to things continuing with the trend already being displayed.

Cheers,

Pat.

pat

Paul,

what engine speed do you expect to see that power at ?

Cheers,

Pat.

Mike Tuckwood

<sigh> Where did I say they were mutually exclusive? You said you'd set it up for economy as that was 99.9% of your driving, why are you pursuing this, are you REALLY trying to infer that it was 560BHP because David said it was quick? My Golf TDi is "Quick" but I wouldn't infer it's got 554BHP because I've achieved that on another car and know where I'm coming from.

<snip> to remove pointless twaddle, but if you want to start another thread about it, I'll gladly go into that in further detail if you REALLY want me to?


OK, I would be impressed to see the "600BHP at 1.25 bar, 500lb/ft at 1.4 bar, and 640BHP at 1.4 bar." graphs?

If you don't want to "release" copies, Pop in with them when you're passing if you like, we're only down the road? I can show you mine then as well if you are sceptical?

To be fair though, it wasn't you that stated a vague "big figures" about your 95ron car, it was DW.

That presents me personally no problem at all and I haven't said it does (I don't think I have), "prediction, speculation, guesstimate" all the same thing really (i.e. they're notional....... not real). You get less doubters when you simply turn out the goods like we have done in this and other instances.

Find a thread on this or any public forum where you've seen me "speculating" big HP figures before doing the work, I have to do it to a degree for customers, but as you know it's not an exact science so try not to be overly optimistic, but we normally end up around where we expect in most cases. Better to be happy about getting better figures, than it is to "over estimate" and then have a customer disappointed. Like I say though, each to their own I guess?



Mike.

Andy.F

If any of you guys in the South want to pop in when you're passing, I'll show you my 936bhp graphs

S,M,G

Mike

I would like for you to see the graphs, although the engine is not close to its potentail, i have built a sister engine for my own car that pat will be mapping in the next couple of weeks, i am interested in how one of my 2.5 engines would compare to another well built 2.5 from someone who, it would appear is keen to see how his engine compares to others. If pat thinks we have time we will do a quik rough/safe map on 95ron and see how things compare. We will not have, unfortunatly the mapping time you guys have had but should be able to spare 1 or 2 hours.

Steve.

Mike Tuckwood

Crikey, ANOTHER new contributor.... hehe. That's cool though Steve. I think my personal e.mail is in my profile, fire em off.
I'll show you my graphs too if you like, the engine which is in the car mentioned in this thread is absolutely nowhere near its potential either, mapped safely to hand back to a customer in another country, so hardly "on the edge" for that very reason, but should still be fun if you want to do a 95 ron map in your 2.5.


Great, my own car is not far off being ready, maybe slightly longer than a couple of weeks, but shouldn't be too far off, we'll have to get together if you like and run them back to back?
Not sure where you got the "from someone who is keen to see how his engine compares to others" part from, as I made it clear I wasn't interested in a pissing contest if you bother to read back far enough. It's "the others" who are feeding this, yourself included now it would appear?


Sounds like a plan to me should be interesting?

Hey, no problem, we've spent double that time on the rolling road, take however long you think you need, even longer than 4 hours if you like, then take it to bruntingthorpe and do 2 hours of 160mph 4 in the car constant high speed runs as well if you like. (though admittedly some of that time was spent setting up the "in gear" boost control system, then racing around the handling circuit.

In fact if you do want to do this, I'll make a list of all the elements we've ran the car through so it's what the customer asked for so we can compare like for like as well eh, just so that it's clear that this isn't just a "maximum possible" race track 2.5 car.

This is one of the funniest threads I've seen for a long while, so many people have their feathers ruffled over what we've done with one simple customer car....... Everyone strutting out, chests all puffed up dishing out personal achievements, theoretical achievements Etc.

Andy, Nice HP by the way, this car will run day in day out for years to come, to Tesco and back with 4 people in it and and fetch the shopping & not get pulled by the plod for construction and use regs issues, will yours? How comfortable would that be in standing traffic, this one is fine (Etc.)?

No doubt you'll take that the wrong way, but the point is still as it was in one of my previous posts about comparing apples with apples.


Mike.

S,M,G

Mike

I would like to do some runs back to back with you, i do intend to do some 1 mile stuff so could be a good opportunity to do so, when do you think your car will be ready? I think the weather will be against us but keep me posted will be good. My email is smgtunining@hotmail.com.
My post was not a dig at you, so please dont think it was just thought if your getting involved with some 2.5 builds always a good thing to be able to compare against others doing the same. If a bit of fun can be had along the way all the better.

Steve.

Mike Tuckwood

Well, it keeps getting interrupted by customer cars, but it's been going back together slowly over the last 4 weeks, I'm in working on it tomorrow, I'll call you and have a chat in the week. We've been turning 2.5's out for over 4 years now so we ought to be able to get it together OK, time is our enemy.


Mike.