Bartop

Not sure why you keep banging on about blaming the panels, as you concede when they get a decent HD feed they are fantastic.

It's because you're feeding them a ****e signal that they look so bad. Spend some of that budget on getting a Sky HD box and subscription, the HD content might be limited at the moment but it's coming and even normal Sky looks excellent through an HDMI connection. Much better than CRT imo.

Sat here watching the Ryder cup in HD and it is simply superb..!

Also get a Plasma rather than an LCD if you watch more sports than movies..

pslewis

You are quite right ... the panels are fantastic ... you cannot get a good picture on them with crap signals.

Now, I can SEE my transmitter tower sending me my TV signals .... I get a picture through the aerial socket on the TV with NO aerial connected!!

But, even given that I have a superb signal, the picture is crap on these LCDs and Plasmas (the shop is a few yards away)

Granted, I should not blame the panel ... but, if you don't want to be ripped off by SKY then you have no choice in the matter - you should stick with CRT until HD is freely available!

I'm glad you are watching the Golf in HD ..... but you pay what for that every month?? £55?? £660 a year?? Add to that the fact that SKY Customer Relations amount to a 'get stuffed response' then, NO THANKS!!

I'm a patient fellow ... I'll wait

Pete

paulr

Totally agree with Mr Lewis on this one up to the point that last month i replaced my old black diamond CRT with a S/H Panasonic 28" CRT off ebay for £140. It was £700 new only 3 years ago and now sits happily in my living room. Fantastic picture on both dvd and Sky (non HD). The guy selling even admitted it was a better picture than his new LCD (wife wanted an LCD )

I'll let others pay for the development cost and format wars then when its all settled down i'll jump in at the top end of the market (with all the money i've saved)........

pslewis

It's a wise move to let the mugs buy and then the clever mop up afterwards!!

I looked at a large screen TV 3 years ago - had I bought (at £1500) I would now have a TV that was not HD ready, had a pixel count that could be counted on one hand and has a resale value of £150!!

I'll wait

Pete

Bartop

Sorry Guys but if you take that stance you'll never buy anything, there will *always* be a better technology around the corner..

At the end of the day the point that someone jumps is a personal choice depending on many things.

The fact is the 'early adopter' phase for LCD/Plasma was pretty much a couple of years ago for the most part and I would agree with you that people buying screens for 10k back then had value pretty low on the list of reasons for buying.

These screens are mainstream now and cost the same as a large top end CRT did even a year ago. Coupled with HD content now available and the reality of HD DVD around the corner and the rationale starts to build to the right point for those who value quality over economy.

You guys hang on, save your cash and stay 2 years behind the curve, I'll sit back and enjoy watching *better* quality TV than you every night whilst you hang out the inevitable..

Just my opinion of course !

pslewis

Thats the point - it is NOT better quality TV images!!!

If the images were then those waiting would have jumped by now ...... we are not waiting until it gets PERFECT - we are waiting until it becomes acceptable!!!

It is NOT acceptable when the picture quality of a new £1500 panel showing normal TV is worse than the CRT sitting in the Lounge!!

Nah, anyone buying now are mugs ..........................

Pete

pslewis

Difinitive Quote from an expert:-

"Let's face it, CRT televisions are about as fashionable as hepatitis -- but flat-screen TVs are still expensive. While the buzz surrounding high-definition TV is enough to drive plenty of people into investing thousands of pounds, CRT still delivers the best picture from standard-definition sources"

That about sums it up very nicely indeed

These are words about a CRT TV - the Toshiba 36" :-

"If you're a big picture-quality fanatic, the 36ZP48 is as good as it gets. We've seen a lot of plasma and LCD TVs lately, but the Toshiba reminds us just how great CRTs can be. Blacks look as deep as you want them to be, with darker scenes still showing acres of detail, and subsequently the colour reproduction is natural and rich. This television also doesn't have the problems that plague flat screens, where using lower-quality inputs results in an almost unwatchable mess"

This is a Tv that costs a fraction of a good LCD or PLASMA but blows them all away!!!

Remind me who are the mugs, again??

Pete

Bartop

It *is* better quality TV images given a Sky feed preferably an HD one and it will be streets ahead when fed an HD DVD.

Please stop mixing up your arguments. You may not want to pay for Sky TV but millions do and for those people a good quality HD Plasma or LCD will give a significant step in picture quality.

The fact is Pete you don't want to pay for your programming and that is your choice, don't harp on about the hardware just because you're not willing to upgrade the software..

A better argument would be you're not going to get one until free HD is available...that at least I would understand..

bighead

iTrader: (1)

But Peter...these Plasma TV are supposed to be viewed with a Digital signal .
I have no complaint with mine (it fact its the best picture of all the Tv that i've had ! )

paulr

Exactly as Pete said,unless you have HD you wont have a better picture than me. Top of the range W/S CRT's still boast excellent picture quality so i'm prepared to wait until the BBC is HD and then i'll buy the best flat screen on the market.

Bartop

I have got HD, more and more programmes are becoming available, HD DVD is nearly here, XBOX 360 is already HD. If you're prepared to pay for your programming now is the time to jump..

..if you're not then that's fine too - what I'm bored with is people slagging off the hardware when actually what they mean is they don't want to pay for the content.

pslewis

People only slag the harware off because, given a normal TV signal that they receive now and pay for, they will have WORSE picture quality by spending £1000's!!

Why should anyone HAVE to pay SKY £660 a year and £300 for the box JUST to receive a picture that equals their CRT at home????

And if they don't pay they have to put up with a terrible picture in quality terms?????

Pete

Robin Mullan

Thanks for that Slimj, was in my local comet store today which is massive and asked 3 employees about SED and none of them had even heard of it.

Bartop

Jeez Pete you really don't get it.

SKY HD AND HD DVD IS BETTER ON A GOOD QUALITY HD PLASMA / LCD THAN YOUR CRT AND FREE TO AIR DIGITAL .

I've had a top of the range 36" CRT before the Sony so I know, plus you've already admitted that.

As it happens I'd also argue that Sky non HD is also better through an HDMI feed than through Scart.

If you don't want to pay for the content then thats fine mate. You're right, there is no point you splashing out on one.

For those that do though, such as me and millions of others, we will have better picture quality than you. Period.

So don't go around describing everyone who buys one as 'mugs' as you so eloquently put it.

pslewis

No, YOU don't get it ......

The ONLY way currently to get top quality pictures to equal a CRT is to buy a SKY HD Box for £300 and spend/waste £660 a year for the pleasure!

For those who don't want to pay extra get worse pictures on a LCD/PLASMA than they did get on their old CRT .................. THATS my point!!

Try finding a 36" CRT in the local shops .... you can't!!!

So, these people are FORCED into an inferior LCD or PLASMA - and thats what you fail to understand!! They do NOT want to be mugs and pay SKY for HD TV pictures!!

All they ask for is the same quality picture as their CRT with the SAME feed - they cannot get that!

Pete

Bartop

Do as I said Pete, take your 2k budget, buy a Bravia for £1400, Sky HD and subscription for a year.

You'll get a better picture, better programme choice, Sky + and in a years time Free HD may be available !

At your age you can't be hanging around too long - live for now !

r32

I have a 37 inch Panasonic Plasma, and its brilliant, used on digital (Sky Plus) the picture quality is amazing, not interested in HD as I dont think (from the samples Ive seen) that it would be that much better. Its worth buying decent kit......

LG John

Silly question but I assume my cable TV is a digital system? I'm guessing it's a fibre optic system which inherently relies on pulses (on/off) of light to transmitt the signal. It's just a basic telewest set up but would that look ok through a good plasma panel or would I have to upgrade to sky or something?

pslewis

A few points to note:-

1. I wouldn't give SKY the dripping from my nose

2. £1400 + Sky Box + 12 months SKY HD = £2360 ...... what do I do after the first year? Will you give me £660 to waste with SKY for months 13-24?

3. I want at least as good a picture as I have now with my new panel given my current feeds and costs - I cannot get that but I SHOULD BE ABLE TO!

Pete

Abdabz

My friend has a Samsung 42" plasma and the picture through sky digital is pants, its like watching it with cataracts... Lines are apparant down the screen and it is slow to refreshv ....
I however, have a 32" LCD (Sharp Aquos) through sky digital and the picture is much much and far far and way way better than on my previous 32" Panasonic Quintrix (which was one of the best standard CRT widescreen pictures available)... The sharpness and colour definition is stunning...
So in short, a decent (not even top of the range) LCD pic is much much, far far and way way better than standard tele's by a country mile...

TelBoy

Agree with Pete. In fact i'd go further. I got the last big CRT that Sony did, real flagship model, bells and whistles. And i *still* maintain that the 1987 Trinitron that it replaced had a better picture. And not only just, it was a significant difference. But of course people scoffed at me. The extra functionality of a new telly is welcome, but in terms of picture quality i reckon the whole television technology explosion is a hyped-up myth. The only good thing to come out of it is the ability to get a flat screen, if that's important to you.

DJ140

I have a 43" Pioneer 436XDE and the image quality is stunning, with a good feed. DVD, HD and most Freeview channels look fantastic, however Pete is correct that a lot of the sport channels look poor.

Any sport in HD looks almost 3D, as do the nature transmissions broadcast on BBC1 HD.

I also have a Sony 32" wwidescreen CRT, but the Pioneer picture quality is a big improvement for most programmes, IMO. The LCD's I viewed prior to buying the Pioneer Plasma were awful, mainly due to pixelation and blurring with fast moving objects etc. Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, Panasonic.

The best value/picture quality currently is the Pioneer 436SXE, less that £1700 including stand.

The biggest problem with almost all TV' in shops is that they are not setup for correctly. With flourescent lighting and in most cases a quick adjustment of contrast, brightness and colour. Lets face it they will be at there worst in this environment. It took me days to setup the Pioneer at home, shops don't have the time, or knowledge in most cases to do this properly.

LE Concepts in the Metro Centre usually do good deals and reasonably well setup sets on view in the shop.

DJ140

If you watch soaps and general programmes I would agree, however Sport is 100% better via HD and worth the investment alone.........Well almost, £299 + £60 fitting plus a tenner a month from Sky is taking the p*ss, £199 including fitting and £5 a month max is what I would pay.

DJ140

Pete as usual your statements are incorrect and designed soley for the purpose of antagonising people who have invested in the "Inferior technology".

A well setup quality Plasma has a better picture than any CRT TV, most of the time. Perhaps your problem is you only watch horse racing, as all comments revolve around horses legs being blurred, do you have a fettish for their hooves???!!!

kbsub

Nice one

As others have said LCD's and Plasma's need setting up correctly at HOME not looking at a few in Comet walking away and then posting everyone's a mug who's bought one , I defy anyone to walk into my lounge and tell me the PQ on my Tosh WLT 66 is no less than stunning , I have had it 6 months now and sometimes I sit in awe of the PQ .

pslewis

Number 1 - it is my HONEST opinion that the latest tecnology is pants at handling the old technology ....... nothing to do with winding anyone up!! OK?

Number 2 - The horses feet being blurred is not to show that I like horse racing (I don't!) it is to show that the lastest technology cannot deal with movement ....... simple as.

And the experts say that the current crop of TVs cannot live up to a CRT given the signals currently freely available and I agree with them!! Just because you don't doesn't mean those experts are wrong!

Pete

andy97

iTrader: (1)

I have yet to see an lcd or plasma perform as well as a crt tube when it comes to fast moving objects on a conventional aerial system. They are getting close but still not quite there.

Most people (average joe public) will buy these flat panel tvs and plug them into a terrestrial aerial system and then see that the performance falls far short of a conventional tv, having just spent a small fortune. I believe the technology has been brought to the market too early, probably due to stagnant/falling crt sales.

Only when HD transmission is the norm, will picture quality be superior.

I'll wait a year or so and see if HD transmissions expand.


Andy, enjoying the picture quality on my 14 year old Finlux 28" tv.

pslewis

^^^^ SPOT ON!! ^^^^

Pete

Diesel

it is wth good reasom that you will not see a plasma or lcd 'monitor' anywhere near a tv studio and all post production is still done with reference to CRT.

I have seen how these technologies can mangle a live picture from a broadcast camera two foot away! the. digital procesing is shocking and blacks and colorimetry etc

However i do give my sexy slim 50" home pose TV half a fighting chance via a HDMI signal froma sky HD box. Off air SD broadcasts will always underwhelm. D

RRH

Pete, if you do decide to buy one, drop me a line and I'll happily send you one of our plasma brackets, free of charge.

I know its a crappy attempt at product placement for free publicity, but its a genuine offer

Simon