Dracoro

In the 'real' world (where is this btw? Are we in a pretend world half the time ), people want economy as well as performance. Thje VTEC is very good at this if you drive it properly. It's fast when you wanna go fast and economical when you don't. When I had the S2000 I managed 47mpg (that IS accurate) on a 100 mile journey.

Anyway, the you either like driving a given car or you don't. There doesn't always have to be a 'winner' and often there can be no winner as people have many criteria when buying a car as well as poke. My car will pi$$ all over 95% of cars on this bbs but I'm not stupid enough to believe that it's suitable for everyone, in fact the opposite. However it is just about the most fun car you can buy, far more than any hot hatch or scoob or, in fact any 'normal' road car. However we all have compromises to make (well those that can only have one 'do-it-all' car) and inevitably all cars are compromised in some way. So you either buy one car that can do some of everything or two cars that can, individually do everything they are designed for. In my case, I sold the S2000 and got two cars, one very fast mad car and one sensible, practical, comfy car.

As for all these hot hatches, one 'maybe' better than the other but ultimately you are splitting hairs, there's no 'big' gap between any of them. They are all fwd, they all seat 4ish, they all have similar performance, they all go pretty well round bends etc.

fritz

Is that in the real world or pretend world?

///\oo/\\\

You were doing ok up till that comment

Your credibility has just hit the deck.

More torquey, yes, but "better to drive" (in the context of this thread)

VXRBOY

You owned both as well have you?

///\oo/\\\

lol

Owned a DC2 for a couple of years and have a mate who's a dealer principal of a Vauxhall dealer and have good experience of the VXR.

Even agrees my old DC2 was better to drive, more focused, better handling, better balanced.

No shame on the VXR, its very good, but its no ITR as a drivers car

Blueblaster

VXRBOY, first off, thank you for the spelling correction...it means a lot to me coming from someone with your impeccable punctuation .

As much as I don't want to I will reply to your bullet points.

1. VXR is marginally faster. The complaint about the new CTR was that it will be too slow. Unless you enjoy racing on the road (which you appear to do) then this point is irrelevant.
2. Looks are subjective. Irrelevant
3. Are you suggesting the CTR had crap handling? Maybe that last 5% is important when you are racing around your roundabouts but not in the real world.
4. Not even responding to your ITR comment.
5. In the real world how often are you out driving and think to yourself, thank god I had that tiny bit of extra performance, my CTR would have been left for dead? Now compare the ownership proposition of Honda vs Vauxhall. How do the two balance up?
6. We really have a different view on what contitutes one car being faster than another. You clearly believe that pulling out a few yards on a 0-100mph sprint is classed as a significant performance gain. Unless you go out actively looking for someone to race this is not relevant to the real world. I don't know how old you are, but you might remember how over the last 10 years or so all the car mags have at one time or another run a feature where they pit a small hot hatch against a supercar. Actually it happens every year in ECOTY. Generally the hot hatch is glued to the supercar's bum. Yes, get it on the Autobahn and you won't see the V12 monster for dust but how relevant is that to driving in the UK where if you are caught racing, and in particular at very high speeds, you will go to prison.
7. Value for money is a huge part of what hot hatches are about. You paid less than list and yet it was still £1000 more. People these days are very casual about money.
8. Given this is a public forum I am definitely telling you that the only place I have exceeded 100mph is on the Autobahn in Germany.
9. People get bored with cars and they start to wear out. That is why they change to a different make. It is not necessarily because their current car is a bad one.
10. If you keep having traffic light drag races to prove you car's metal then you will get through a few clutches.

You are clearly someone who loves his car . That is good to hear because I was bored rigid by my STI and so know how irritating it can be to spend a lot of money on a car you don't like. I think we have probably exhausted this topic, but have probably learned one thing in the process. Well, I think I have, anyway. We all look for different things in a car. You want something that goes as fast as possible and looks good when women look at you as you sit in traffic. I think the VXR fits your brief.

One thing that really bugs me about this forum is that the majority of the contributors think that anything that doesn't have 4wd, a turbo and a massive spoiler is rubbish. The new CTR has effectively been dismissed as an ugly, underpowered load of rubbish. That is so totally wrong I just had to make a point. My point is now boring people so I will shut up. Enjoy your car and if I ever meet you I'll buy you a beer .

Blueblaster signing off.

VXRBOY

Blueblaster i thought you were going to be a tit, but you are actually a straight talking good bloke. I will race you to the pub
Never said the honda's were rubbish just that from my experience, still say the VXR is better all round. And both are better than scoobies (runs and hides in the woods).
So ///\\\\ooooo/////\\\\\ you have a mate, what!!? live with both, then you might have a real opinion on them both.

///\oo/\\\

I've driven both extensively. The ITR is the better drivers car IMO (and the opinion of someone who sells them)

You don't have to live with a car to know its not as good as another when driven in the manner its maker intended.

VXRBOY

Will have to disagree there mate, cos i had the ITR for 2 years, but was one of the first to get a VXR (last november) so just under a year, and still finding things out about it, its just more exciting to drive.
I think you do have to live with a car, to get to really know it.

Chins

Good thread.

Lets wait and see what real figures the CTR gets when tested. Bear in mind Hondas figures might of been on ultra grippy tarmac, ideal atmospheric conditions, a guy the size of a jockey driving and less % fuel in the tank than an F1 car on a qualifying lap. Heavier weight, abeit with shorter gearing doesnt look good.

I'm an ex ATR and VXR driver. That will be my one and only VTEC. Crap in day to day real world driving IMHO. I'd take the VXR everyday. On top of that, this new CTR looks crap. At least the local Chavs will like it

Christ

You guys sure about the handling?

Astra VXR on top gear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGqLcbCn79U

Vectra VXR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKfhx...elated&search=

Chris

Fabioso

Yep here come the 2 brigades..................all going over the same arguments that have been done over and over again.

Thats wot I like about the other marques section on Scoobynet, its always predictable in an unpredictable world

Gastro

This may have been said before in fragmented terms but my view (as an owner of 2 DC2's) is quite simply.....

If its dynamically better than the '2 and the '5 then its a worth successor.
Forget the BHP ! - That is so wrong !!!

The DC2 was a great Type R - I think we are all agreed..
The DC5 was a little diluted but a very good all rounder.

Lets hope that Honda red label hasn't lost any more

///\oo/\\\

The Astra was a pre production car apparently - more of a show car with the wrong suspension.

Or so I've heard.

flat4

i would of sold my mother to buy the concept version, best looking car i'd seen in ages, that though......well done Honda, you bottled it

jonc

Granted I've not driven either of them, however, I have read countless reviews of the DC2 ITR's excellent handling prowess, but have yet to come across one for the VXR that compares to the ITR. Just my own observation.

IMO the pictures for new CTR looks a bit OTT but as I always find, maybe will look better in the metal.

Gridlock Mikey

My god Kev You HAVE a mother?

flat4

amazing, i know!

Gridlock Mikey

Midwife at Bev's birth:

PUSH, Mrs Bev, PUSH............... **** me Mrs Bev Pull, Pull

jeremy

The new type R will not be as good a handling car as the old Integra R because
honda don't do steering feel anymore and

its down to wheels wheels wheels period. 15 inch wheels ride the road much better than 18.

AudiLover

The astra VXR is overrated just because its so much more powerful than its competition, and it has raw brutal force. Well anyway come late 2007 the Golf GTI is gonna get 230/240hp. I know which one I would buy.

Christ

I took the current Gti over the VXR, wasnt a difficult choice... But this thread is about the new Civic R - and I look forward to having a test drive in one

AudiLover

I might buy a CTR and stick a VAG lump in it Perfect car then.

Blueblaster

Can't believe I am now going to defend the VXR! Two faced? Me? Never? How much more are you going to pay for a 240bhp Golf than the Astra? Thousands, that's how much. And the Astra will still look better. That really is my last word on this never-ending subject

AudiLover

The astra and look good. ahahahaha

That astra VXR is some chavved up boy racer machine. I think it looks completely and utterly stupid. And the price of the 240hp golf should stay the same as it replaces the the 200hp version. The R32 will by then have become the R36 with 280hp.

Anyway looks are subjective, but unlike teh astra the golf will hold its value, and it has the better interior. Couple years from now and the VXR will look tacky.

Chins

I sold my MKV GTI to buy the VXR and prefered the drive in the VXR to the GTI, it was just more fun. Lost a lot less on the VXR at resale than I did on the GTI.

Need to chip my 2.0TT now so I dont feel a drop in performance from the VXR

FirebirdUK

Had a test drive of the 2.2 TD Civic at the weekend - not a bad little car. Love the dashboard, and the shape really stands out as something different compared to all the other Focus lookalikes out at the moment.

The engine was quiet and it didn't drive like a diesel (hardly any turbo lag)

Asked about the new Type R - they told me they were not allowed to take pre-orders for it until December

Question is - do I go for a bargain on the old model Type R, go for the diesel, or wait until the new model is out? (Been driving a Bora TDi for the last year since I got rid of my STi - can't wait to get rid of it)

GlenF

Wait for the new one & i'll help you save a few quid. SERIOUSLY I drive the 2.2ctdi now, not a bad car considering its quicker than the 1.8vtec, although I do find the steering a bit vague & suspension harsh for a derv!

Fabioso