Help restore faith to a disheartened Porter Cable user
05 September 2006, 06:53 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Polished Bliss
No, because the yellow pad causes more marring, and that's the last thing you need right now. I would continue with the existing pads/products, as they are the rigt tools for the job, it's just the method that needs to be sorted.
It's just some scratches that i didn't manage to remove using the orange pads and src compound
05 September 2006, 07:49 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Polished Bliss
The difference is simple (and we use rotary polishers to do the bulk of correction work we do, only really using the PC for correction work on soft paints and final polishing, as it's quicker and avoids the potential for leaving any machine induced defects like holograms, etc). Rotary polishers are harder to handle safely and have the potential to remove paint very quickly. For novices and home enthusiasts the PC offers an easy to use, safe way to get good results - I have helped many people get to grips with their newly purchased PC's, and many find it takes a fair while to get comfortable with it. Give these people a rotary from the off and they'd soon be in big trouble, with expensive paint repair bills - Mickey will hopefully forgive me for this, but he's been doing cars for years, and is experienced, but he managed to burn through on the first few goes with his rotary. I also know that one of the best detailers in the UK with many years of mopping experience who details for many celebrities recently burnt through on his own car, due to a momentary lapse of concentration. So, in summary, yes the PC and rotary give similar results in skilled hands, and yes both product choice and pad selection count for a lot on both machines, as does consideration of paint type. BUT in terms of giving advice to enthusiasts on forums such as this, the PC is the way to go, as it will enable them to achieve cracking results safely and effectively, avoiding costly mistakes, which is surely a good thing?
talking about mistakes etc.I found that the buffer I have, and ones I have used in the past, they have a stupid handle that sticks out at 90 degrees, there a doddle to use when you remove the handle.
With regard's to your pal burning his own car, thats very suprising with you saying he's pretty good with one in his hands. Mind you, mistakes can happen I guess.
I think that the lads who are interested in buying a PC, or who own one and are a bit nervous about using one, wouldn't it be the risk of burning the paint ? If you was going to offer anyone any advice about the compounding routine ( the process where the paint takes the most hammer ) wouldn't you say if unsure, have a spray bottle of water handy if in any doubt ? I know watered down compound ( like warm ice cream ) is kinda defeating the object a little, but at least everyone using it would gain confidence, and 9 out of 10 wouldn't burn the paint etc, would you say ?
What is this detailing spray used for - is it any good ? And what finishing polish do you use out of interest ?
Cheers,
R7
05 September 2006, 09:23 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Polished Bliss
It is, but foam selection counts for a lot too. You try using a soft, black glazing pad with a compound, and then try it using a harder, orange pad with the same compound and see the difference in the result - it will be huge in terms of swirl correction and paint removal. Modern day machine polishing is all about making the right pad/product choice for the paint you are working on, and this only comes from experience. Getting it wrong either results in not enough work being done, or removing too much paint - hence why a paint gauge is an essential tool for machine polishing work.
cheers
06 September 2006, 10:40 AM
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Yes matey, I agree with you on the costly mistakes thing. Pity about Winstone burning his car though with his machine talking about mistakes etc.
I found that the buffer I have, and ones I have used in the past, they have a stupid handle that sticks out at 90 degrees, there a doddle to use when you remove the handle.
This is recommended for both rotaries and PC's - that said, rotaries should be steered from the rear, holding the head just for support, while PC's should be steered from the head, with the rear hand providing support.
With regard's to your pal burning his own car, thats very suprising with you saying he's pretty good with one in his hands. Mind you, mistakes can happen I guess.
Different guy - Mickey is a member on here who owns a very successful car wash and valeting company. It was his first attempt with the rotary if I remember correctly.
I think that the lads who are interested in buying a PC, or who own one and are a bit nervous about using one, wouldn't it be the risk of burning the paint ? If you was going to offer anyone any advice about the compounding routine ( the process where the paint takes the most hammer ) wouldn't you say if unsure, have a spray bottle of water handy if in any doubt ? I know watered down compound ( like warm ice cream ) is kinda defeating the object a little, but at least everyone using it would gain confidence, and 9 out of 10 wouldn't burn the paint etc, would you say ?
I recommend spritzing the pad with water or quick detailer before applying any polishing product - it's standard practice to me, as it reduces friction in the first few seconds of polishing before the polish has had chance to spread out over the pad properly.
What is this detailing spray used for - is it any good ? And what finishing polish do you use out of interest ?
Quick detailing sprays are used for several purposes. A good guide is offered on the website here...
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acata..._maintain.html
Essentially I use them to help prevent towel marks when drying off, to finish off at shows, sometimes to spritz pads with (although my preference is water) and to help loosen some polish residues (for example, a shot of Acrylic Glos really helps shift Prime residues, and adds more protection at the same time, as it contains the same sealant, albeit in a sprayable form).
talking about mistakes etc.I found that the buffer I have, and ones I have used in the past, they have a stupid handle that sticks out at 90 degrees, there a doddle to use when you remove the handle.
This is recommended for both rotaries and PC's - that said, rotaries should be steered from the rear, holding the head just for support, while PC's should be steered from the head, with the rear hand providing support.
With regard's to your pal burning his own car, thats very suprising with you saying he's pretty good with one in his hands. Mind you, mistakes can happen I guess.
Different guy - Mickey is a member on here who owns a very successful car wash and valeting company. It was his first attempt with the rotary if I remember correctly.
I think that the lads who are interested in buying a PC, or who own one and are a bit nervous about using one, wouldn't it be the risk of burning the paint ? If you was going to offer anyone any advice about the compounding routine ( the process where the paint takes the most hammer ) wouldn't you say if unsure, have a spray bottle of water handy if in any doubt ? I know watered down compound ( like warm ice cream ) is kinda defeating the object a little, but at least everyone using it would gain confidence, and 9 out of 10 wouldn't burn the paint etc, would you say ?
I recommend spritzing the pad with water or quick detailer before applying any polishing product - it's standard practice to me, as it reduces friction in the first few seconds of polishing before the polish has had chance to spread out over the pad properly.
What is this detailing spray used for - is it any good ? And what finishing polish do you use out of interest ?
Quick detailing sprays are used for several purposes. A good guide is offered on the website here...
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acata..._maintain.html
Essentially I use them to help prevent towel marks when drying off, to finish off at shows, sometimes to spritz pads with (although my preference is water) and to help loosen some polish residues (for example, a shot of Acrylic Glos really helps shift Prime residues, and adds more protection at the same time, as it contains the same sealant, albeit in a sprayable form).
06 September 2006, 07:28 PM
#36
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yup i went through the paint while "learning" although this was not due to heat build up, i have had a few "problems" tbh so far, i will list them
1st.
this was due to the 8" mop "kicking" out a little while doing the bottom of the impreza doors, this sent the machine downwards faster then i could control it and the backing plate hit the sideskirt, causing a burn where the backing plate hit the skirt.
2nd.
the mop delaminated from the backing plate (cheap mop!!) you can imagine what happened next!!!
3rd.
after the mop delaminated, i REALLY wanted to finished the back 1/4 on the car, so i pulled out the free lambswool mop that i got with my rotary and tried to finish it off, i had read about lambswool being very harsh for compounding, but i had no experience, so i thought i would give it a whirl, the previous mop delamination marks simply wet sanded out, so i mopped over them, the wool mop really does do a lot of work, so much so i went through to my base coat in 10/15 seconds.
what i must add, is, this was with my own paint job, i am not a spray painter, i painted my own car to learn how to paint, and this was the perfect opportunity to also learn the rotary. the damage i caused i could easily fix myself, others are not so luck so more caution should be advised, a PTG is a must of you do not know what you are doing. i actually planned the paintjob with more paint then was needed, to give me plenty headroom while also learning how to use a rotary, i used 4.5 litres of paint to spray a car, when the pros could probably do it with 2.5/3 litres max
better still IMO is to just pay somebody else to do the job for you if you are unsure.
i have used the rotary a good few times now with various products, and i am confident in using it on customers cars, but, as i have said elsewhere we do not do 100% defect removal, my rotary is used purely on old battered cars with faded paintwork and such, where the customer just wants a shine, and is not wanting a 100% defect/factory finish.
FWIW i don't even let any of my employees use the rotary either, if a car needs doing, its done by me and nobody else, they really can be quite dangerous when used by a numptie
1st.
this was due to the 8" mop "kicking" out a little while doing the bottom of the impreza doors, this sent the machine downwards faster then i could control it and the backing plate hit the sideskirt, causing a burn where the backing plate hit the skirt.
2nd.
the mop delaminated from the backing plate (cheap mop!!) you can imagine what happened next!!!
3rd.
after the mop delaminated, i REALLY wanted to finished the back 1/4 on the car, so i pulled out the free lambswool mop that i got with my rotary and tried to finish it off, i had read about lambswool being very harsh for compounding, but i had no experience, so i thought i would give it a whirl, the previous mop delamination marks simply wet sanded out, so i mopped over them, the wool mop really does do a lot of work, so much so i went through to my base coat in 10/15 seconds.
what i must add, is, this was with my own paint job, i am not a spray painter, i painted my own car to learn how to paint, and this was the perfect opportunity to also learn the rotary. the damage i caused i could easily fix myself, others are not so luck so more caution should be advised, a PTG is a must of you do not know what you are doing. i actually planned the paintjob with more paint then was needed, to give me plenty headroom while also learning how to use a rotary, i used 4.5 litres of paint to spray a car, when the pros could probably do it with 2.5/3 litres max
better still IMO is to just pay somebody else to do the job for you if you are unsure.
i have used the rotary a good few times now with various products, and i am confident in using it on customers cars, but, as i have said elsewhere we do not do 100% defect removal, my rotary is used purely on old battered cars with faded paintwork and such, where the customer just wants a shine, and is not wanting a 100% defect/factory finish.
FWIW i don't even let any of my employees use the rotary either, if a car needs doing, its done by me and nobody else, they really can be quite dangerous when used by a numptie
Last edited by StickyMicky; 06 September 2006 at 07:30 PM.
06 September 2006, 10:39 PM
#37
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If you were going to polish a freshly polished car would you bother to clay it first or just wash it and go straight onto a compound?
Also is it recommended to use a detailing spray to help remove the residue? Or does this provide it's own wax which may not be a good idea during the compounding procudure?
Also is it recommended to use a detailing spray to help remove the residue? Or does this provide it's own wax which may not be a good idea during the compounding procudure?
07 September 2006, 08:24 AM
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(Cheers for the input Mick, very valuable to the discussion.)
There is no need to clay again when you have another go (if the fingertips don't detect contaminants, then you can skip the claying step). I use the SRC polishes a lot, and compared to others the residue is a bit oily and therefore harder to buff off, and I have taken to using a spray bottle of water rather than QD to help shift it. However, from what you wrote above you probably had a worse job through using too much product, so try using a little less (a single cross on the pad is sufficient), and if you still find the residue hard to shift give it a light spritz of water before buffing.
There is no need to clay again when you have another go (if the fingertips don't detect contaminants, then you can skip the claying step). I use the SRC polishes a lot, and compared to others the residue is a bit oily and therefore harder to buff off, and I have taken to using a spray bottle of water rather than QD to help shift it. However, from what you wrote above you probably had a worse job through using too much product, so try using a little less (a single cross on the pad is sufficient), and if you still find the residue hard to shift give it a light spritz of water before buffing.
11 September 2006, 05:21 PM
#42
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Not had another crack at it yet, that's the first effort when i struggled
But will take all the above on board if I have another touch up
But will take all the above on board if I have another touch up
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