LG John

If you'd care to read the thread I think you'll find that as per, f*cking, usual I made zero mention of my VTS!! People jumped all over my user name assuming (as always ) that because my log-in name is "Saxo Boy" I must have a less valuable opinion. The attack on the VTS began and despite not having owned one for about 5 years I defended it. The only real comparison I drew was between the cossie and scooby's (which I have also owned) and that is IMHO a fair comparison.

I'd have a cossie in place of a VTS (obviously) but if you are asking the question I'd have the S2000 any day of the week. It wins every category with the exception of 'cult status' and 'tunability'. Take the rose tinted specs of guys - strip away its cult status which is driven purly by Dagenham Dave and his chav pals and the Escort is dynamically, practically, mechanically and in every other regard matched or bettered by early scoobys costing a few grand.

It's idiots like these that pay £1000s for a star wars figurine of Han Solo, etc. You are buying a 'dream' and that's fine, its your money, but don't come on here making out like the Cossie is somehow better than all the competition even 15 years on..............because it isn't.

LG John

Take this for example. Looks like a very clean example to me that has been lovingly looked after and probably had a few well chosen mods. It's £19k for a 10 year old car!!!!

This is also quite clean on the basis it's 2 months old (!) and you'd have about £3.5k left for mods to beef up the performance or looks

Or

This, £6k spunked on an STI8 gets you some pretty useful performance you know and, oh, its only 7 years younger and a lot nicer looking!!

Or

This, loads of exclusivity, load of fun, plenty quick, monster quick round the corners, better looking!

Or

This, money left over for mods if 361bhp isn't enough for you! Still 4 years younger to boot!

Or

This, 1 year old, mint condition, better handling, pretty exclusive, fairly practical and quicker in every regard. A little but more but, hey, you can stretch! Bye, bye cossie.

Or

This, 350bhp, just over a ton, sounds mental, looks mental, is mental. Bye, bye cossie.

Finally

This, bye-bye cossie.

I'd have all of those cars in place of the cossie and that's because I don't love cossies. I don't particularly hate them either. I veiw them in a pragmatic way and in that regard they just do not stack up. The price of them is artificially inflated by the fact that there are limited numbers (as they are not made any more) and an increase in affluent middle aged men that had wet dreams over them as teenagers and who can now afford them.

As I said early I have no problem with your heart ruling your decision making like this. You are passionate about cars, as most of us on here are. However, I do object to the purchase justification that goes on with people claiming that the cossie is a, b and c. It really isn't! It's matched or bettered by jap rally replica's costing a few grand and for the money you can sort yourself out with some far superior machinary.

LanCat

Maybe one or two commentators are missing the point? Sure there are faster, quicker, better looking, better dynamically, better priced cars but that's not the point. They are what they are, they define the time, they have a certain something and are holding onto their value for reasons of rarity, desirability and that certain something.

Would I have one? No, I'd prefer a mark 1 mexico or rs2000 but that's because they resonate more with me but if the cossy resonates with you then have it and enjoy it.

Bat-Fink

passionford.com mate get away from the trolls here.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

No true car enthusiast can dismiss anything with a Cosworth badge on, a VTS would be able to follow an Escos well but it wouldnt be quicker unless the Cosworth driver is a Muppet, have driven both and its closer than you may imagine.

sti-04!!

Kenny .... Here take a pill

From my perspective i have owned most of the cars mentioned, i also own a 92' Saph Cosworth, one of only 15 made in Radiant Red. Its lying in bits & one day i will rebuild.

These cars are classics now & long live the fast ford of the 90's as the junk thats for sale at the moment isnt worth it.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean the Focus and Fiesta ST ?

AudiLover

how come its only the brits that rave on about the escort cossies?

StudentScooby

Cult Car

sti-04!!

Having owned a 1.8 Collection, a Focus RS & a ST170, i feel i can slate Fords creation of a hot hatch.
The 1.8 Collection was the best focus i owned... it done everything it asked plus more, it handled like a dream & after some silly mods it went about its business better than any focus i ever owned.
The RS was a nightmare ....... i have a road near my fathers old farm that i know better than any other road & the RS was a total nightmare on it. From the day i owned the RS i wasnt sure of it & once i ran it around my "test track" i was certain i had bought a donkey.

The ST170 i bought when i was skint & i was expecting VTS 16V performance .... it was a dog end of.

LG John

I totally agree and I respect that It's like the Ferrari 360 vs the 996 turbo (I'm ignoring the f430 and new turbo). The 996 is the better car in most measures but for me it's not a Ferrari and if I had the choice I'd take the 360 but I'd not make out like it was the better car than the Porka! I'd accept that I'd made my choice based on passion and not pure credentials. That's all I'm driving at here. I'm not trolling, I don't do that. 10,000 posts to go through to confirm I'm not on the wind up - I'm simply expressing an opinion (which I accept is a minority one)

I know it's my failing but I get really irritated by people that elevate things to a level well above their station based soley on the their personal passion for it. I have an S2000 and I love it, but the Boxter S is almost certainly a superior roadster - it wan't for me though, hence I have the Honda. Similarly when I find the cash I'll buy myself a Tag watch. Why? Because I like them! Not because they are as well made or will hold their value anywhere near as well as similarly priced watches.

Then we come to pop stars. Stupid little girls screaming their guts out because they got within 100m of Robbie Williams? Why? Sure he sings, but he's a man with feelings, a ****, *****, habits, scars, history, etc just like the rest of us. Why do these idiots think he is superhuman or something

There is plenty of place in the world for passion and I for one am passionate about many things but I am also a great believer in being realistic at all times. Cossie enthusiasts are, IMHO, in the main not realistic - they are blinded by their passion.

LG John

Incidently the car from my generation was the Subaru Impreza and having owned one I found it to be a little dissapointing. An excellent car, don't get me wrong, but certainly not as amazing as it was built up to be. I can admit that and I admitted that even when I owned it

Trucker Ted

Check this old Escort Cosworth tv advert out ,i'm sure it will bring back some fond memories,always remember the Brian May theme music..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PLg...related&search=


It was a great car and still is,although its a bit unfair to compare it with modern high performance cars with improved performance and handling.It will be fondly remembered by most car enthusiasts

scoobynutta555

If you'd read your own posts on this thread then you'd see just as I have you mentioning your magnificent Saxo. Quite frankly I get bored reading your posts as they always say the same thing regarding Saxos and s2000's, change the bloody record and stop turd polishing.

LG John

My First Post

"They look p*sh from every bloody angle. Total case of Rose tinted specs IMHO. I'm sorry but if you offer me a MR340 and a cossa it's a total no-brainer - the EVO is the better car in every way IMHO. Likewise Spec-C."

No mention of Saxo's or the S2000 there.

My Second Post

"LOL so now we have to compare year of manufacture like for like

So if the engine capacity is different its not fair, if the breathing method of the engine is different its not fair, if the platform (fwd, rwd, 4wd) is different its not fair, if the year of design and manufacture is different its not fair, if the price when new isn't within 10% of each other its not fair, if the broad size and weight are different its not fair, if the specification is significantly different it's not fair??

So with the exception of cars that are near identical (saxo vts/pug 106 gti) what exactly can we compare?

The cossie is ****e. No doubt it was excellent in its time and can still hold its own (performance wise) now but the world has moved on sadly the cossie hasn't. It's value is held be predominantly middle-aged blokes that used to have wet dreams over them when they were too young to afford one. I personally see it as the ultimate chav status car - waaaay more so than a scooby! Each to their own Remember at the end of the day it's just an escort Sure the same can be said about the scooby and the Evo and many would argue that is half their problem"

Only mention of Saxo's here is to examplify the fact they are very similar to the 106 Gti to emphasis my point about comparison of cars in general.

My Third Post

".

I'd fancy the VTS to run rings round the cossie in the twisties. I owned a scooby which is far better than a p.o.s. ford and there is truely no comparison between my S2000 and a cossie. One trick pony as far as I'm concerned. "Haw-way man, I've just spunked £x,grand an a Stage 3.25 fur m' cossa, minted man! It now goes from 0-100mph in 8.5 seconds!....."

Until this point I had been expressing an opinion with examples to try to back up my point. As usual such conversation is waaaaaaaaaaay to mature for your average Scoobynetter. I am called a tosser for no apparent reason? Has this person met me? Then wild assumptions are made about my car history based soley on my log-in name and it is alluded to that the Saxo is utter sh*t!

From this point on I defend both myself and the Saxo which gets a hard time based soley on its image and the image of those that generally own them. It's a highly entertaining little car and I won't see it put down even now that I've moved on about 10 'rungs' up the ladder!

So, what is your point? I didn't start this!! I was making a point about Escort Cosworths and how I think they are over-rated and yet certain members seem to think I'm unqualified to speak becaue my user name suggests I own or owned a Saxo.

scoobynutta555

Point is you say you didn't mention your saxo and you obviously did, are you blind?

Take the chip off your shoulder.

LG John

I have no chip. You do.

I try to engage in meaningful conversion involving the expression of conflicting points - this is normal day-to-day practise all over the world. Others, who don't have the vocabulary to engage in such conversation, decide it’s easier to counter my argument by directly attacking me and my life choices (both of which they know very little about I hasten to add).

I hate to have to ram the point home but:

Read the sequence of events: I made no mention of my vts. Factually correct - I did mention vts/106 gti as sharing a similar platform but it was very much a passing comment. People then attack me, 'Saxo' and 'Saxo Boy'. This was the next chain of event as detailed in post 75 above. Then and only then do I jump to defend myself and the saxo*. All of this accord with the sequence of events in my quote above.

Ergo, I did not enter this thread to try and draw some wild comparisons between the Escort Cosworth and a Saxo VTS, or an S2000 for that matter. I entered it to express a view that Cossies are over-rated, over-priced and ugly and in doing so I did draw comparison to scooby's and evo's which I believe to be a fair comparison (similar size, similar platform, similar purpose, similar engines, etc)

* Incidentally if my handle was “Kenny1978” then none of this argument about Saxo’s would be happening. Think about that! 90% of the objection here is to my user name…

LG John

as an aside I just read the very first post again, "Sure its been covered a billion times but as no doubt there are many late twenties guys in the same boat now prices are reasonable.
I lusted over these for years and now the pull is getting too strong. whats the consensus then. Try and be fair although on this forum no doubt it will descend into a my dads bigger than yours debate. cmon guys seconds out......"

LMAO Ninjaguppy knows Scoobynet well

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

SB tends to have sensible posts, don't hassle him just because of his username ...

I remember seeing a Sierra Cossie when I was 20 (long time ago ) in Slough, it was just getting dark, the car was black with black leather & looked awesome. I really wanted one at the time, just couldn't afford it of course. Now that I can afford it, just don't want one. The performance car scene has indeed moved on & you can get better cars for the same money now.

TX.

LG John

Thanks T1000 unit

Incidently, how much were Cossies new? How much actual £'s at the time and also what would the equivellent value be today? I'm not asking to wind up, I just want to know.

stilover

Don't know about anyone else, but the hairs on the back of my neck stood up while watching that.
Someone needs to show that to the current Ford management, and give them a kick up the @rse. Ford owned the Hot Hatch market back then. Look at the current range now? Sh1te. Only the Focus ST and Fiesta ST.

Back then we had XR2i, XR31, XR4x4, Sierra Cosworth, Escort Cosworth, and all the other Hot Hatch Icons of the day. Funny how Ford made a profit back then. I see a connection ???? Ah, yes, make car's people want, and they'll buy them

stilover

About £26-27K if I remember right

LG John

Wow, that's quite a lot of wonga for 15 years ago!! Without going to the trouble of looking inflation up I'd guess that's probably over £30k worth today!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

A mate of mine had a Sapphire Cosworth, it spent more time in garages than on the road.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Sb, I see where you are coming from, the Cossie has more mystique than it actually deserves, the old guard like the first M3, Integrale and the Escort were awesome at the time, but time moves on and although they are still good newer stuff eclipses it, saw something on fisth gear where the M3 and Grale went round a track little quicker than a modern diesel Astra.

200 ish bhp used to be headline news, nowdays its an also ran hot hatch. I drove a nealry new Escort Cosworth owned by a dealer friend and it was good but left me a bit dissapointed, I was expecting ballastic and it just wasnt, drove a VTS and that was better than I imagined and not in my mind that much slower than the Escort either in a straight line or round corners, I think a lot of the reputation with the Cossie comes from highly modded ones, 220 bhp is way different to the 400+ bhp beasts out there, drove a chipped Audi S3 which was very capable but bring but was quicker than either.

turbodan

The original M3 is about handling (its extremely balanced) and flatters the driver. Pure enjoyment, same for the 'Grale. By modern standards they arent the quickest of cars but still deserve their cult status IMO.

Cossie is an icon. Its not the most capable of cars but the engine is a masterpiece and can be tuned to silly bhp. I dont for one minute expect it could hold a candle to the most recent imprezas for handling etc.

RAF1

iTrader: (5)

me as well - good to see it gets the thumbs up at the end

Raf.

stilover

In standard form, yes. A lot of Cossie's have been upgraded both in the engine, and suspension parts. Some will handle really well, even by todays standards.

What people have to remember is that when the Escort Cosworth came out, vertually no car could get close to it for power/handling. The second most powerfull Ford at the same time (apart from Sierra Cosworth) was the XR4x4 (150bhp) and THAT was regarded as a Powerfull car !
Today, the Impreza's are faster, yes, but as shown in Evo magazine, a well driven Vectra VXR, and BMW 330 is just as fast. Only when you use the absolute performance of the STI using the 4wd to the max does it pull out a lead. Even on a back road a `Performance diesel` can stop a STI PPP from getting past on a short straight, such is todays level of performance. Back then only a handfull of cars, or VERY expensive cars could match or beat a Cosworth. I still say a standard Escort Cosworth will be fast on a back road, and a tuned (both engine and suspension) cosworth would be a match for most `performance cars`

I would love a Cosworth, not cos I think I'll beat everything on the road with it, but for just having one of the most iconic road cars ever to be built. It still look the Dogs Bollox's today, and still will in another 20 years time.

ninjaguppy

thats my point and why I asked the question. I know that my sti ppp is quicker and more reliable but I just love the escos. Now it seems that for not much cash on brakes and mods I can have not only a total icon but also a bloody fast good looking reliable dream car. I think I have my mind made up!! But I thought that about a new spec c as well Is it really that cheap to tune?

Bat-Fink

I think you'll find it was the Saff Cossie 4x4.