WasteGate Chatter
09 August 2006, 10:14 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by 5cby
well is any1 running their motor without a d/v now
and whats it like?
tempted to take mine of to hear what it sounds like
steve
and whats it like?
tempted to take mine of to hear what it sounds like
steve
on the lag issue i couldnt comment because i only took off the standard dump valve when i replaced the intercooler with a fmic
09 August 2006, 10:28 PM
#32
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GC8 you are jumped up and severely ignorant. Tunnel vision on the car scene isn't advisable...
As Batfink clearly states he isn't referring to external wastegates (irrelevant as it is) but internal, and is completely correct that the 'chatter noise' that you hear is the gas being forced back through the compressor, not anything to do with the wastegate.
Your ego has outgrown you mate, like you're probably outgrowing your car. And btw i'm 19!
As Batfink clearly states he isn't referring to external wastegates (irrelevant as it is) but internal, and is completely correct that the 'chatter noise' that you hear is the gas being forced back through the compressor, not anything to do with the wastegate.
Your ego has outgrown you mate, like you're probably outgrowing your car. And btw i'm 19!
10 August 2006, 09:33 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by 5cby
so running with out one is a no no
steve
steve
10 August 2006, 09:37 AM
#37
Originally Posted by logiclee
GC8 is correct, on competition cars runing high boost wastegate chatter does happen and it is of course where the term comes from.
Originally Posted by logiclee
When the throttle is closed running very high boost and no DV the reaction of the wastgate can be so severe it "Bounces" causing the noise, this effect can be amplified with some antilag systems.
, and I'm sure you KNOW that. The "pigeon" noise is purely compressor surge from the reverse air flow, nothing more, nothing less. I have ALS on my car and the wastegate is easlily accessible. From a standstill I can recreate the noise you believe to be wastegate "chatter" and you can physically hold the wastegate while I do this. If it moves or rattles, I'll give you a £100 
.
Originally Posted by logiclee
The majority of the noise on current cars does come from the turbo going into stall and the turbine blades cutting stalled air.
.
Originally Posted by logiclee
And as for stall, your turbo does not stall as 120000rpm to 0 instantly would be catastrophic.
.
Originally Posted by logiclee
On blade compressors and fans if air flow is restricted you reach a point where there is not enough air flow for the blades to cut and produce pressure, at this point the load on the compressor/fan drops away and the unit is said to be in a stall condition. On some applications (Usually motor driven) the speed of the compressor/fan can actually increase during a stall condition.
Originally Posted by logiclee
The downside is the dynamic balancing in a stall condition goes to bits putting strain on the tubine shaft and bearings, also the turbine blades can be shock loaded leading to fatigue and failure.
It's why manufacturers fit DV's to road cars, to increase the reliability of the turbo by keeping air flowing through it and preventing a stall condition when you come off the throttle.
It's why manufacturers fit DV's to road cars, to increase the reliability of the turbo by keeping air flowing through it and preventing a stall condition when you come off the throttle.
10 August 2006, 09:56 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by GC8
Daniel you are an annoying little boy posting on an adults website. The "wastegate chatter" to which you refer occurs only in competition cars. When you originally posted this I knew that Id read similar words somewhere, but I thought better of saying so..... To state that "there is no such thing as wastegate chatter" is as factually incorrect as suggesting that the unusual noise heard on competition (predominately rally) cars all come from the wastegate.
10 August 2006, 09:58 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by GC8
Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
10 August 2006, 10:03 AM
#43
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I understand running without a dv is more strain on the turbo. What are the chances of the turbo braking, snapping a shaft etc, and falling into the intake causing terminal damage to the engine?
Thanks
Thanks
10 August 2006, 10:10 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M-Developments
Maybe you had best start remembering some of it again before coming on the internet and making yourself look extremely foolish. Thankfully for my fingers, Mike has typed a perfectly factual reply for you to begin your re-education with. Nice reply Mike.
Last edited by GC8; 10 August 2006 at 10:17 AM.
10 August 2006, 10:13 AM
#45
Originally Posted by Daz_WRX
I understand running without a dv is more strain on the turbo. What are the chances of the turbo braking, snapping a shaft etc, and falling into the intake causing terminal damage to the engine?
Thanks
Thanks
. At certain points, a DV could create MORE unreliability than running without one (for example, if you are running on the very outer edge of the compressor map and constantly overspeeding it).
10 August 2006, 10:17 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Imppossible to answer without knowing the airflow of the turbo and whereabouts on it's compressor map it is running . At certain points, a DV could create MORE unreliability than running without one (for example, if you are running on the very outer edge of the compressor map and constantly overspeeding it).
. At certain points, a DV could create MORE unreliability than running without one (for example, if you are running on the very outer edge of the compressor map and constantly overspeeding it).
Went straight over my head lol. I think i need to do some research. Ill keep the dv on there for now.
Cheers mate
10 August 2006, 10:22 AM
#47
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Some cars were never fitted with a DV (S13 200sx springs to mind, however, the standard boost was only around 0.7 bar, so I would guess no major shock to the compressor at this level?).
Would love to run without a DV on my Type R (vf28), but it is running around 1.45 bar which is already way over what it was as standard, and I know the turbos arent known for their strength, so would be worried about terminal failure (something I havent got the money to fix atm!
Would love to run without a DV on my Type R (vf28), but it is running around 1.45 bar which is already way over what it was as standard, and I know the turbos arent known for their strength, so would be worried about terminal failure (something I havent got the money to fix atm!
10 August 2006, 10:22 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by GC8
To suggest that the (probably external) wastegate on a competition car is silent; would be extremely foolish.
Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
In the interests of clarity, what does the probably external wastegate on a competition car sound like if it is not silent?
10 August 2006, 10:32 AM
#50
Also, I forgot to mention that it depends what type of turbo it is as well. For example, all the GT range of turbos if running above standard boost pressures MUST run a dump valve (AND water cooling). This is because in the interests of spool up, the GT range (by comparison to the agricultural T-series), runs really spindly main shafts. Great for reducing lag, no good for the compressor surge of ANY type.
10 August 2006, 10:48 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also, I forgot to mention that it depends what type of turbo it is as well. For example, all the GT range of turbos if running above standard boost pressures MUST run a dump valve (AND water cooling). This is because in the interests of spool up, the GT range (by comparison to the agricultural T-series), runs really spindly main shafts. Great for reducing lag, no good for the compressor surge of ANY type.
10 August 2006, 10:51 AM
#52
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Im sure that you know as well as I do Rannoch, if not better. Whats the point of your post? The point of mine was that the wastegate isnt silent and that Daniel has paraphrased and precociously posted something that he doesnt really understand.
Simon
Simon
10 August 2006, 11:04 AM
#53
Originally Posted by GC8
Im sure that you know as well as I do Rannoch, if not better. Whats the point of your post? The point of mine was that the wastegate isnt silent and that Daniel has paraphrased and precociously posted something that he doesnt really understand.
Simon
Simon
But if you want to split hairs, even an external wastegate does NOT make any noise in operation and IS as good as silent in operation, it is the exhaust gasses from the engine that make the noise, not the wastegate itself....
10 August 2006, 11:16 AM
#56
Originally Posted by GC8
Mike; you are quite correct on both counts. Prompted more by his arsey reply though.
Simon
Simon
10 August 2006, 12:35 PM
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10 August 2006, 01:56 PM
#59
Originally Posted by WRX RCY GEM
, as well as perfect example of why the term "wastegate chatter" is perpetuated . Bloody Clarkson .