Dawes Device Main post.
28 November 2001, 10:53 PM
#64
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Ian I am in West Fife. Do you fancy a group muddle through fit?
Certainly it would be handy to have someone to watch the boost gauge and lambda output whilst setting up and we could get both cars done more quickly - two heads better than one etc?
I always find it tricky to watch RPM, boost (off an unlit gauge!) and a DVM at the same time whilst putting down 1.2bar on a wet/icy road - esp in the dark
Last night I gave up when it decided to freeze and the Scooby was behaving more like an Elise crossed with a torque steering Saab turbo.... (depending on what mood my right foot was in).
Do you want to set yours up with a direct link from turbo output to wastegate or do you want a hybrid setup? - if latter you'll need a valve - see my other post in Drivetrain.
[Edited by john banks - 11/28/2001 11:15:05 PM]
Certainly it would be handy to have someone to watch the boost gauge and lambda output whilst setting up and we could get both cars done more quickly - two heads better than one etc?
I always find it tricky to watch RPM, boost (off an unlit gauge!) and a DVM at the same time whilst putting down 1.2bar on a wet/icy road - esp in the dark
Last night I gave up when it decided to freeze and the Scooby was behaving more like an Elise crossed with a torque steering Saab turbo.... (depending on what mood my right foot was in).Do you want to set yours up with a direct link from turbo output to wastegate or do you want a hybrid setup? - if latter you'll need a valve - see my other post in Drivetrain.
[Edited by john banks - 11/28/2001 11:15:05 PM]
28 November 2001, 11:24 PM
#65
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Hi John
Im in the lothions. To be honest im not too sure where i want the thing, as long as it doesnt blow up my engine then its fine
Im also interested in seeing what you think of the Falkland DP as im in the market for one.
Ian
Im in the lothions. To be honest im not too sure where i want the thing, as long as it doesnt blow up my engine then its fine
Im also interested in seeing what you think of the Falkland DP as im in the market for one.
Ian
29 November 2001, 01:42 PM
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A valve is cheap and Ian Atkins has already ordered one from Pipemore as per my post in Drivetrain - will certainly give us more options setting yours up...
The Falkland/Magnex pipe is good, but beware it is only so quiet on mine because of the PPP BB.
The Falkland/Magnex pipe is good, but beware it is only so quiet on mine because of the PPP BB.
29 November 2001, 02:22 PM
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Lo John
Ok looks like i will just do what you are doing so that you know what is going on, coz i wont have a clue
My car doesnt have the ppp on it so im not sure how far i would be able to push my boost to. At the moment its at 0.9 bar so i think i may be able to get 1.1 - 1.2 with std ecu fueling.
Once we have recieved the devices we should meet up and go through some stuff. Oh and i will sort out all that stuff for the other valve.
Regards
Ian
Ok looks like i will just do what you are doing so that you know what is going on, coz i wont have a clue
My car doesnt have the ppp on it so im not sure how far i would be able to push my boost to. At the moment its at 0.9 bar so i think i may be able to get 1.1 - 1.2 with std ecu fueling.
Once we have recieved the devices we should meet up and go through some stuff. Oh and i will sort out all that stuff for the other valve.
Regards
Ian
29 November 2001, 04:44 PM
#68
John,Maxy
I will be getting my Dawes boost device also. I live just south of Perth (7miles) and just over the border from Fife. Maybe we could all meet up and scratch our heads. (I am an engineer)
I wouldnt mind a look at your car John with all the bits that you have had done to it. Especially the Magnex twin dump.
Im in Norway until 18th Dec then home after that.
Cheers
Beastie
I will be getting my Dawes boost device also. I live just south of Perth (7miles) and just over the border from Fife. Maybe we could all meet up and scratch our heads. (I am an engineer)
I wouldnt mind a look at your car John with all the bits that you have had done to it. Especially the Magnex twin dump.
Im in Norway until 18th Dec then home after that.
Cheers
Beastie
29 November 2001, 06:40 PM
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Hooked up to the ECU's knock and lambda inputs tonight. Knock input shows 2.43V at idle - not varying with RPM either. Lambda shows 0.84V (the highest I can get) on boost. After a while it heats up and falsely reads lean. But 0.84V at WOT on boost seems a little low to me. Previously the car was checked on a select monitor at 16PSI and was not lean. Need to think how to interpret these results. I took a ground from the ciggie lighter surround - maybe this is the problem?
29 November 2001, 08:37 PM
#70
John
I certainly cant interpret this information without knowledge of the expected voltages and what this means to the combustion of the engine. I know from your posts that you are able to measure and deduce an informed conclusion from these readings. This is because you have been fiddling (er I mean tuning!) for longer. What reading do you expect at Stoichemetric? What reading do you expect at the point when your engine starts to run lean? what reading do you expect to start getting knock at, assuming your ignition timing is functioning as it should?
If you tell me where to measure I can take a set of readings from my car (non PPP) to compare on standard boost. However as you have the magnex downpipe this may be causing your mixture to be leaner than mine. (I have only scoobysport backbox & K and N filter.) I seem to recall you have an induction kit as well? (cant remember, but seem to recall something about inlet mod)This may also lean out mixture so not really comparing like for like.
I drove Wrexy,s car and he can wind up the boost to 1.2 bar, no signs of knocking and is standard ECU on MY00, but he has exhaust mod and APS induction kit. The thing I noticed about his car was how smooooooth it was, compared to mine.
I havent got a knock link, no need just now, but have got an STI boost gauge. On speaking with Luke Deacon he said that it would be interesting to see what improvement could be achieved on a standard car. This seems to boil down to how much you trust the dawes device, after all a 26quid part can totally ruin your engine if misinstalled.
Like I say it would be nice to meet and exchange ideas and its a good excuse for a blast.
I hope we do manage to meet up and compare different approaches to tuning.
Beastie
I certainly cant interpret this information without knowledge of the expected voltages and what this means to the combustion of the engine. I know from your posts that you are able to measure and deduce an informed conclusion from these readings. This is because you have been fiddling (er I mean tuning!) for longer. What reading do you expect at Stoichemetric? What reading do you expect at the point when your engine starts to run lean? what reading do you expect to start getting knock at, assuming your ignition timing is functioning as it should?
If you tell me where to measure I can take a set of readings from my car (non PPP) to compare on standard boost. However as you have the magnex downpipe this may be causing your mixture to be leaner than mine. (I have only scoobysport backbox & K and N filter.) I seem to recall you have an induction kit as well? (cant remember, but seem to recall something about inlet mod)This may also lean out mixture so not really comparing like for like.
I drove Wrexy,s car and he can wind up the boost to 1.2 bar, no signs of knocking and is standard ECU on MY00, but he has exhaust mod and APS induction kit. The thing I noticed about his car was how smooooooth it was, compared to mine.
I havent got a knock link, no need just now, but have got an STI boost gauge. On speaking with Luke Deacon he said that it would be interesting to see what improvement could be achieved on a standard car. This seems to boil down to how much you trust the dawes device, after all a 26quid part can totally ruin your engine if misinstalled.
Like I say it would be nice to meet and exchange ideas and its a good excuse for a blast.
I hope we do manage to meet up and compare different approaches to tuning.
Beastie
30 November 2001, 08:31 AM
#71
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Thanks Beastie - comparisons would be excellent.
The ECU connector nearest you as you sit in the passenger seat is labelled B136 in the Link manual. Pin 21 is the lambda sensor. Alternatively you could pick it up from the VERY hot area around the turbo - just at the neck of the downpipe towards the midline of the engine bay, but I don't know the pinouts there.
I Scotchlocked into it, but fairly cleanly - didn't want to cut the wire. I also connected to the knock input pin 26 - this line just stays at 2.43V on my car and drops to 2.39 if I put a/c on!
At Stoich from the lambda I expect and it does (a few times a second) rock across from 0 to 0.7 volts.
On boost I expect at 1.0bar+ to get 0.87V, at 0.6-1.0bar to get 0.85V, at 0.2-0.6bar to get 0.83V.
I expect these because they are the default values the Link ECU comes with as targets for the lambda in these different boost zones. Have not seen any other recommendations so I'm running with these.
My earth is not clean at present so I'm sorting that out and will pick up a sensor earth from the ECU.
The lambda readings go down towards lean when you have been on boost for a short time as the temperature at the sensor rises and it misreads. I run along gently (with engine fully warmed) for a few minutes, and then get the revs above 3000, quickly snap open the throttle and as soon as the throttle pedal has stopped moving look at the DVM over the next second or so to see the peak voltage reached.
0.84V is as high as I get - if I use less throttle and hence less boost I get less as expected.
Use a digi voltmeter as otherwise the low impedance can burn out the lambda. Mine is accurate to 0.5% plus 1 digit - which COULD I suppose mean I am at either 0.82 or 0.86V - I would prefer the latter.
I will sort the earth out, and turn the boost down to standard and see if I get it any higher. At the moment it suggests 5% CO at WOT. I could take the induction kit off and see if that changes anything also.
My mods - PPP K&N 57i and downpipe. Valve replacing the orifice in restrictor hose. Boost at 1.2bar peak/held. No manifold changes. Still have PPP centre and BB (decat totally).
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...D=51940&Page=4 is the version of the Link manual I have downloaded for MY99/00. pages 23,24,31,34,35.
The ECU connector nearest you as you sit in the passenger seat is labelled B136 in the Link manual. Pin 21 is the lambda sensor. Alternatively you could pick it up from the VERY hot area around the turbo - just at the neck of the downpipe towards the midline of the engine bay, but I don't know the pinouts there.
I Scotchlocked into it, but fairly cleanly - didn't want to cut the wire. I also connected to the knock input pin 26 - this line just stays at 2.43V on my car and drops to 2.39 if I put a/c on!
At Stoich from the lambda I expect and it does (a few times a second) rock across from 0 to 0.7 volts.
On boost I expect at 1.0bar+ to get 0.87V, at 0.6-1.0bar to get 0.85V, at 0.2-0.6bar to get 0.83V.
I expect these because they are the default values the Link ECU comes with as targets for the lambda in these different boost zones. Have not seen any other recommendations so I'm running with these.
My earth is not clean at present so I'm sorting that out and will pick up a sensor earth from the ECU.
The lambda readings go down towards lean when you have been on boost for a short time as the temperature at the sensor rises and it misreads. I run along gently (with engine fully warmed) for a few minutes, and then get the revs above 3000, quickly snap open the throttle and as soon as the throttle pedal has stopped moving look at the DVM over the next second or so to see the peak voltage reached.
0.84V is as high as I get - if I use less throttle and hence less boost I get less as expected.
Use a digi voltmeter as otherwise the low impedance can burn out the lambda. Mine is accurate to 0.5% plus 1 digit - which COULD I suppose mean I am at either 0.82 or 0.86V - I would prefer the latter.
I will sort the earth out, and turn the boost down to standard and see if I get it any higher. At the moment it suggests 5% CO at WOT. I could take the induction kit off and see if that changes anything also.
My mods - PPP K&N 57i and downpipe. Valve replacing the orifice in restrictor hose. Boost at 1.2bar peak/held. No manifold changes. Still have PPP centre and BB (decat totally).
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...D=51940&Page=4 is the version of the Link manual I have downloaded for MY99/00. pages 23,24,31,34,35.
30 November 2001, 08:41 AM
#72
John
Printing out your post now so I have a permanent record and can fiddle accordingly. As I say unfortunately not home until 18th December, so you will need to wait.
The link you have posted for the Possum Link info is back to this page. What is the real link?
I have a digital multimeter (Fluke, proper job)
Beastie
Printing out your post now so I have a permanent record and can fiddle accordingly. As I say unfortunately not home until 18th December, so you will need to wait.
The link you have posted for the Possum Link info is back to this page. What is the real link?
I have a digital multimeter (Fluke, proper job)
Beastie
30 November 2001, 10:53 AM
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John,
I have similar set up to yourself, i.e. PPP ECU, K&N Induction and straight thru exhaust.
From your other thread r.e. adjustable valve I have just ordered the same parts as yourself from Pipemore. You should be on commission as they are getting a few orders in. LOL!
Being no where near as technical as yourself. To summarise, are you going to use the Dawes device to control spikes/keep boost within 0.5PSi tolerance and the valve control to set the boost at the boost you are happy with?
Damian.
I have similar set up to yourself, i.e. PPP ECU, K&N Induction and straight thru exhaust.
From your other thread r.e. adjustable valve I have just ordered the same parts as yourself from Pipemore. You should be on commission as they are getting a few orders in. LOL!
Being no where near as technical as yourself. To summarise, are you going to use the Dawes device to control spikes/keep boost within 0.5PSi tolerance and the valve control to set the boost at the boost you are happy with?
Damian.
30 November 2001, 11:46 AM
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Damian I am going to do what I do best fiddle and pontificate. It sounds like the best setups I have heard so far have the Dawes set to about 10PSI and the valve after it doing the rest. This makes the part throttle response less aggressive. But with both in line you can vary how much each one controls boost and hence the total and its characteristics. Like the TurboXS HP MBC that is all the rage in the states.
30 November 2001, 09:18 PM
#76
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Tried some more lambda readings this time picking up the lambda's correct earth from the ECU rather than the ciggie lighter.
It reads even lower!! 0.82V at 1.2bar. But it is reassuring that it is 0.81V at standard boost 0.9bar! I think so anyway.
Of note with PPP at present I can get almost full boost at 1/3 throttle up hill at 3000rpm + in 4th gear, so maybe with my ECU this part throttle issue may not be so crucial. Can't wait to get the Dawes and have a play.
It reads even lower!! 0.82V at 1.2bar. But it is reassuring that it is 0.81V at standard boost 0.9bar! I think so anyway.
Of note with PPP at present I can get almost full boost at 1/3 throttle up hill at 3000rpm + in 4th gear, so maybe with my ECU this part throttle issue may not be so crucial. Can't wait to get the Dawes and have a play.
02 December 2001, 10:24 AM
#77
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Was getting 0.85V last night after learning when and how to read it. This would suggest around 6% CO which should be reasonably safe and in the maximum zone for power. I am ordering a Lambda Link as I think it would be easier to read off LEDs and is only £68 from Scoobymania. I think the Dawes AFR meter would be useless as on my car the red light would always be on 0.75-0.90 V. 0.90 V is very rich - like 10% CO!
Another thought - this part boost situation that occasionally happens when you floor it from around 3000rpm having held it on low throttle for a while - eg overtaking and it keeps the noise and emissions down (the noise particularly)...
If the factory boost controller was disconnected this wouldn't happen anymore - I just hope the ECU adjusts fuelling for it. I would imagine it would but something to look out for if you are installing AFR meters.
Another thought - this part boost situation that occasionally happens when you floor it from around 3000rpm having held it on low throttle for a while - eg overtaking and it keeps the noise and emissions down (the noise particularly)...
If the factory boost controller was disconnected this wouldn't happen anymore - I just hope the ECU adjusts fuelling for it. I would imagine it would but something to look out for if you are installing AFR meters.
02 December 2001, 04:55 PM
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John and Everyone,
I thought I should mention that Dawes Devices offers custom calibration on our A/F meters at no additional charge. So, if you have suggestions for a WRX specific meter, just let us know. We do not currently have a WRX in the stable for experimentation, so we rely on customer feedback for WRX specific products. Please email us directly, with your suggestions, as I don't get to spend much time "lurking" on your forums.
Additionally, we have recognized that some of our WRX customers would prefer a less aggressive boost curve from our controller. As a result, we are currently testing an upgrade that will allow for tuning of the boost acceleration curve. It will also be possible to return the boost curve to the maximum rate via a cockpit-mounted switch, for racing activity. The upgrade kit will be offered with our boost controller, in a WRX specific package. We will also offer the upgrade pieces at our cost, plus <$8 shipping, to our existing customers.
Dawes Devices has earned a reputation for outstanding service to our customers and we fully intend to continue this with those in the Impreza/WRX community.
Thanks for the space,
Darren Dawes
==Dawes Devices
I thought I should mention that Dawes Devices offers custom calibration on our A/F meters at no additional charge. So, if you have suggestions for a WRX specific meter, just let us know. We do not currently have a WRX in the stable for experimentation, so we rely on customer feedback for WRX specific products. Please email us directly, with your suggestions, as I don't get to spend much time "lurking" on your forums.
Additionally, we have recognized that some of our WRX customers would prefer a less aggressive boost curve from our controller. As a result, we are currently testing an upgrade that will allow for tuning of the boost acceleration curve. It will also be possible to return the boost curve to the maximum rate via a cockpit-mounted switch, for racing activity. The upgrade kit will be offered with our boost controller, in a WRX specific package. We will also offer the upgrade pieces at our cost, plus <$8 shipping, to our existing customers.
Dawes Devices has earned a reputation for outstanding service to our customers and we fully intend to continue this with those in the Impreza/WRX community.
Thanks for the space,
Darren Dawes
==Dawes Devices
02 December 2001, 10:51 PM
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http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=57428 for my AFR details. It's public domain, use any of it if you want. Seems to work immaculately without filtering.
Interesting mod to your device...
TPS - 0.5V(+-0.3) closed to 4.3V(+-0.3) open at least on the old shape turbo.
The Link manual has more details. http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/docs/WRX-V5.pdf with some handy tables and wiring diagrams in the back which I think are from the workshop manuals.
Interesting mod to your device...
TPS - 0.5V(+-0.3) closed to 4.3V(+-0.3) open at least on the old shape turbo.
The Link manual has more details. http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/docs/WRX-V5.pdf with some handy tables and wiring diagrams in the back which I think are from the workshop manuals.
04 December 2001, 08:23 PM
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Luke,
Got mine today. Will try to find the time at the weekend to have a play. I'll try to put some photos up then.
Posted the £1 cheque today.
Cheers mate
Daver
Got mine today. Will try to find the time at the weekend to have a play. I'll try to put some photos up then.
Posted the £1 cheque today.
Cheers mate
Daver
04 December 2001, 10:39 PM
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a question b4 i fit mine.
Has anyone told there insurance co. and if so what was the response? i.e. how much extra or did you say it was a safety device preventing overboost or such like so they charged no extra premium?? pumpers.
Has anyone told there insurance co. and if so what was the response? i.e. how much extra or did you say it was a safety device preventing overboost or such like so they charged no extra premium?? pumpers.
04 December 2001, 10:50 PM
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It will increase peak power. I am holding 3PSI more at 7000rpm and seeing peak boost at 2400rpm. However, I am on up to 20% increase with my insurance. With PPP+EBC+DP+Cone showing 280bhp at PE and some std cars showing over 230bhp I think I am just about up to 20% increase in power. You should definitely tell them. Mine don't want to know specifics, just increase in PEAK power, which I pay them dearly for.