john banks

I didn't play any such games

Warm fuzzy psychologist harmed by cold calculating medic who was too busy to think? I bet she'd make a good urologist

ricardo_wrx

The government have knocked teachers from pillar to post, now they are starting on the doctors.

My uncle's a GP and he told me last week the government will be tightening the ropes. The news of large salaries was a spin tactic to get the public against the GP's, well thats my thoughts anyway.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, she certainly took the ****!!

Ns04

john banks

Despite doctors' pay, there are studies to show that training nurses to take on some aspects of the role saves little or no money. Why? Because the nurses then want a higher grading, they need a lot of training and often specialise in one area to do things doctors previously did, they need support from a doctor who is still responsible for the patient overall, they need a longer time with the patient and sometimes struggle to see the whole picture outside their specialism. It isn't an infrequent occurrence that I have to go against recommendations from specialist doctors or nurses who clearly don't appreciate that the prescription they are asking me to blindly produce would damage the patient in some other way that they have not appreciated - small things like beta blockers to asthmatics, dangerous drug combinations, NSAIDs to people with kidney failure etc. GPs are really the only generalists left now. With GPs taking on 90% of NHS contacts it will be very amusing if they try to get someone else to do it.

NotoriousREV

Our doctors operates a system where you have to phone the same day for an appointment. The phone lines open at 8:30. This morning the Mrs got through at 08:34 (after several attempts) and they'd handed out 60 appointments in that 4 minutes!

Nowt to do with how much a GP earns, though.

lozgti

£100k is way above any normal kind of salary.Most lawyers(someone mentioned them) are on about £30k.It is only city high flyers on big money.

Do they get a lump sum to pay for surgery/staff etc and £100k is left for them? Just seems an awful lot of money to me.What does the pharmacist get who corrects prescription errors?

The Zohan

As a side issue
My other half applied for three jobs at our local NHS trust. She called up and spoke to someone and asked for the application forms for the jobs at the same time on the same day.

She recieved by post two days later three envelopes from the NHS trust contaning three idential glossy full colour brochures about the trust, three detailed boolekts about filling in the forms, three identicall brochures about other services - oh and three application forms.

Talk about wastage!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

On a serious note, it's very difficult to argue for or against wages on a comparative basis- it's often a case of two wrongs don't make a right! :-) In any case, it's hard to put a numerical value on an individuals skils and experience .

I think one can only reasonably say that being a GP is a highly skilled job requiring extensive training and experience, which benefits the general public enormously and -therefore- should command a very good salary.

Politicians, on the other hand........

Ns04

Brendan Hughes

How about BBC talk show hosts and DJs?

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/sto...756435,00.html

DaveMiddleton

As someone with TWO sons studying medicine at Edinburgh and Aberdeen I find it hilarious to hear the a Medical degree is quite easy.
The reason for the low failure rate is that the required school qualifications for medicine at University (8 x one's at Standard Grade and 5 x A grades at A level - all at first attempt) tends to lend credence to the fact that the vast majority of them were already in the top percentage of achievers at school and thus can follow the curiculum better than most!!

john banks

I'm an Edinburgh medical graduate - typically top quartile performances - certainly no resits - also with 5 x A levels at A grade from a comprehensive school. The actual difficulty of the material is IMHO easier than a Further Maths A level from the early 90s, there is just a lot to learn, with common sense and pattern recognition required.

Yours sons tell you it is hard to make you feel sorry for them... wait until they start doing General Medicine on call then they will realise how easy it was. Although that is a completely different stress level, responsibility and skill to performing well at medical school.

Myself and a lot of my colleagues spent about an hour or two a day studying except for a week or two of cramming before exams. I'm not some photographic memory type and I'm not bragging - this was typical.

gingerboy

As many have said on here good luck to the doctors!

Lets put it into context, my brother-in-law is a carpenter and has been for 27 years, 3 years ago earned just over 30k including call out work. He served an apprentice ship for 3-4 years and produces a high standard of work where and when appropriate, he freely admitts that he has an easy life. He knows he could earn a hell of a lot more but likes his life working for the council.

My local borough council pays his wages and whilst the majority is covered by rental income from council properties, obviously susbsidy for any shortfall will be met via payments allocated to the borough councils annual budget which will include funds from our NI, tax and council tax contributions.

Whilst the funding for doctors may come from a different route, again we all will have contributed varying amounts - however I am confident that compared to a skilled carpenter a doctor will have put many years into graduating and then working their way up the ladder before eventually becoming a GP - 5 years at uni, 2 years as a junior doc, etc etc.

Do I feel that compared to my brother in law they deserve on average 3 times his salary - too bloody right they do!!

Looking at the general population of the UK, what % would choose medicine as their chosen career?

How many have the intelligence to then pass the relevant qualifications?

How many have the commitment and drive to stick with it through 5 years of trainig?

How many would then be prepared to work ridiculous hours as a junior doctor for not very much money?

And finally once you have gone through that little lot how many of us would be prepared to deal with the general public from all walks of life everyday, some very pleasent, others down right rude and others that are terminally ill, time wasters, lazy *****, work shy lay abouts after a sick note and children that are being abused!!

Now whilst some will be more than happy to still continue to whinge and whine about doctors earnings. Personally I doubt I could honestly fulfill all of the above criteria if I am honest.

So as already said, good luck to them, they generally do a very difficult skilled job well and provide a service that is valuable to the communities they serve. Few people possess the relevant qualifications to perform the job let alone have the ability, drive and determination to succeed.

I would imagine, although I could be wrong that the majority of people that claim that doctors are over paid are those people who have never fully applied themselves and are a little envious of such an attractive salary but are unable to analyse what is involved in attaining such a position of responsibility.

Mean while some monkey that has the physical ability to perform magic on a piece of grass with a football somewhere will be earning that much a month easily - yes I know that it is funded by their adoring fans but do you ever wonder what the world is coming too. One of the above has the ability to diagnose what is wrong with you and potentially save your life whilst the other can kick a football around! Go figure, given the choice I know who I would rather was earning 50k per week.

No doubt I will get ripped apart for this reply but hey ho.

And no I am not a doctor or even remotely associated with the field of medicine, just another member of the general public who works in the private sector paying my NI and Tax as do the majority.

GB

GB

SJ_Skyline

Whereas Natasha Kerplunk gets banged by her boss and now earns north of £250K... value for the license fee? I don't think so!

I think the BBc should have been a little less vocal in their critisism

logiclee

I did six years further education to become an electrical engineer, I always earned good money and the hours weren't too harsh so I'm happy with £45k.

My GP is excellent and I have no problems with him earning 100k+
They have many years on low money and long hours so why shouldn't they be rewarded later on.

If it was easy and a doddle of a job then there would be more Dr's than posts and they would be on far less money.
Medicine is the same as other industries so if the NHS wants to retain highly trained staff it has to pay the going rate.

Cheers
Lee

Deep Singh

I don't begrudge the GPs £100k+ but must say us guys in hospital medicine are a little jealous! We've taken even longer to get to our level ( ie typically age 35 as opposed to 27ish for GP) sat more exams and work more on calls until we are age 60+. We do not earn £125k, not from just our NHS jobs anyway!

More importantly though I think this has been 'released' by the govt to distract people from whats really going on with the NHS. Its in chaos, and its great to be able to 'hint' that its all due to fatcat GPs sapping all the resources.

And for the person who posted saying most lawyers earn £30k, get real!! Maybe if they got their law degree from Khazikistan(?)

lozgti

OK,here is real. Example jobs from my latest Law Society Gazette.Solicitor for corporate services Nottingham CC£27,411 to £36,402.

Mind you,there is one for Legal Advisor to the NHS in at £55k.Funny that.

The Zohan

There was a link (on sn) to a site advertising a script writer for either local gov or the NHS on here a few weeks ago for some serious wedge.

I wonder does anyone still have it.

TopBanana

You get poorly paid jobs in any professional sector. I doubt doctors' academic peers would be pursuing them.

Leslie

Apparently the Government made a gross error in estimating what doctors actually do and how much they would actually be eligible for if they did their normal duties in the target driven arrangement set up by the Health Ministry. They thought that GPs would only do about half of what they listed as qualifying actions.

Another example of unbelievable incompetence again and Billy Boy can only say that he thinks the salaries are wholly justifed since he can't find an excuse for it all of course!

What a way to run the country!

Les

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Shame he didnt do the same with dentists then I would not have had to go private. Although bliar is just accusing them of being greedy barstewards

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Pay for academics in this country is generally very poor.

When I completed my PhD and looked for lectureship posts, I noted one -at a reputable university- advertising for a lecturer. The usual requsites of a relevant degree and PhD applied as well as a PGcert being desirable.

The Pay?


17k.



Disgusting, an insult quite frankly!


Ns04

SJ_Skyline

There's always freshers week though

Deep Singh

Er, I thought we said 'lawyers'. Aren't solicitors different? I take it from the fact you read the LS Gazette you are a 'legal' of some kind?

TopBanana

I agree - it should be the best paid job in the country but it doesn't work that way!

But my point wasn't about academics!

AudiLover

"Doctors on average earn 100k"

Whats the problem?

TopBanana

http://www.doncasterwestpct.nhs.uk/u...alRecruits.pdf

Tiggs

debate works better when you read the posts between the first one and yours.