craig5

the m5 is a fantasic car and are now becoming a good buy you have to remember you are buying a 60k car and with it 60k bill's if you buy 1 you must have bmw warranty i had my for 6 month's and it ate oil at a rate of 1 litre every 1k and it cost's 16 pound,2 mafs at 500 pound and then the vanos went at 6k to fix it then went in the trader

john banks

Love/hate on the way home - lovely in a traffic jam with the semi-auto, navigation, interior, TV etc. Then I took a twisty way home with a temp of 2.5C, pouring with rain and a bumpy undulating road. Truly a horrible experience on 19" wheeled M3 after a Scooby, felt like the suspension had no travel at all. On smooth tarmac the lateral g it pulls is almost unbelievable, but on a road like this it bounces all over the place.

I know an Evo would be rubbish at the first bit, and demolish the wet bumpy road on the Bilsteins.

Deep Singh

I found the M3 suspension to lack something aswell. I've driven other cars that handle as well if not better (ie 997/RS4) yet their suspension is more compliant.

John, the RS4 is the closest a car comes to your requirements except it doesn't have a turbo. Also for me its still very expensive and I have an issue with buying brand new cars that will lose major wad

craig5

john have you though of exe-tc suspension-i am told it is fantasic and i will be raiding the piggy bank when i have the car mapped next month

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I was told by a ralliart technician that they were upping the AYC fluid intervals.

Also you are right John, the AYC fluid in the part of the diff that contains the AYC clutch plates is the part of the system that needs changing. The other part of the AYC system that contains the fluid is the reservoir in the boot which feeds the pump/actuator system and stays clean as a whistle from my experience.

On my evo's I change the AYC clutch pack fluid using an old toilet duck bottle and a length of clear hose to pump it into the top of the diff carrier. The fluid is about £7 a litre from Mitsubishi iirc and the clutch bath holds under a litre. This is the important one to change regularly, the reservoir/pump fluid (same stuff) doesn't need changing as often (I was told it was going to be upped to 18k miles)

Even the complete AYC fluid change from Mitsi (clutch bath fluid change, pump drain and fill from reservoir inc bleed using mut) was under £80 from the dearest dealer and I actually got it done for £29 from a more friendly mitsi dealer.

john banks

Does sound like the costs and frequencies can be kept quite sensible then

Regarding other suspension on the M3, I don't think it is worth messing about with on this sort of car, it is already like an over-stiff aftermarket suspension in many ways. On the Evo MR or IX, like the STi 05/06 I think they would be difficult to better for a road/mixed use car?

SPEN555

John,

Don't forget the twin scroll JDM scoobs to consider. They are a very different proposition to UK scoobs.

john banks

Would be nice to try one, but the turbos are still a bit weedy on them as standard compared with the Evo's?

THOMO

4500 services maybe short but it keeps the engine safe.like john said im sure you could find a cheaper alternative.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Nothing wrong with the turbo's on the JDM Twin scrolls John
Better all round car than the evo and thats been put to the test

Tony

john banks

Except they are about 50 BHP down on an Evo with similar mods?

Have you seen any tests of the Evo IX vs Spec C? Interest to read if you have.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yes John, i did the greek evo test, Evo 9 v Spec C, well it was an MR320 but there was one car that handled better than the other (including on the road) and it wasnt the evo (plus the Spec C was slightly quicker in a straight line also, though you wont get an evo driver telling you that )

Tony

john banks

So you each thought your own cars were the best?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Nope, the 9 sucked, it was comfy, but it was soooooooo...... distant.
You were not driving the 9, it was driving you, the impreza on the other hand, you had more control over
And the tyres...... second you got heat into them, they went off big style
The guy hated mine, tried to get it to flip the tail out, just gripped the evo on the other hand just went all over the place!!
In the end, given the choice of a UK STi and the Evo 9 MR, id take the MR, change that choice to the Evo 9 MR and a JDM STi and ill take the JDM STi.
I think that sums it up

Tony

PS try to decode this, its in there somewhere! http://www.evomagazine.gr/main/index.php

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

Thats the downside to the Evo's.....the active yawn control.
I felt that it's very much the car driving you and that's it.

Dark Blue Mark

Who really thinks they could justify the difference between the two in terms of performance? There's a lot of technical differences, but I dont feel that many (incl myself) could tell the difference and justifty it for what they use the car for. Granted if you are an extremely good driver, which I and 99% of people on here are not, then maybe... and if you use it on a track.

I do wonder with all the talk of suspension / AYC / twin scrolls etc etc, what it actually means to most of us who really get to use it once a week for the odd roundabout which is clear of traffic

I remember my STi5 and being able to drive it reasonably well. It would cost about 8k now, and im sure the fraction of seconds that a brand new scoob or EVO would gain on me in a bit of a country road race wouldn't be worth it

not that I wouldnt like a newer car of course, but often these discussions end up in pro's and con's being the latest technology diff or gearbox which I find a bit odd. Great for the motoring journo's to bull**** over though!

Just a point!

MB

AudiLover

Id just get a Evo 8 FQ330 or 340 for 15k with under 20k miles on it. Near enough new and you wont care about the depreciation too much.

scrappydoo

Lol@Evo9 MR320.. Theres no such model.. I own an evo (2nd one) and its so much better than the subaru i used to have in absolutely every way.. It sucks my ****.. pml..Never driven a spec c but would like to however. The only thing wrong with the evo is that the factory alignment is way out..Once this is changed the car is completly different. And not once does my car drive me. lol.. Cant be driving it right in that case methinks chaps.

john banks

Thanks Tony, Google don't do a Greek to English so I can't read it. Is the handling of a JDM compared with a MY05/06 that different due to 1cm extra tyre width and a different steering rack? Or is there more to it than that? It is odd the comments about the tyres, since Evo have praised the Evo's tyres in that they don't go off despite being softish compound. I really need to try a Spec C or just a recent JDM, but finding one is tricky. I know which engine I would want though:

john banks

Best I could find for the Spec C at the same dyno.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

John,

Next time your down here

Tony

The Fixer

One key point your all missing, Reliabillity The 4G63 engine will still be going strong a long time after you have rebuilt the big ends on your Subaru engine twice

With Subaru specialists like HDC and API having rebuilt over 600 Subaru engines each due to failures it speaks volumes for the strength of the engine. Try and find a Mitsubishi specialist anywhere in the UK that has rebuilt that many 4G63 engines due to failure.

As pointed out earlier, 4500 mile service is for AYC fluid, engine is longer. Having owned 6 Subarus in the past and one Evo I'll know which I'll be buying again when the insurance coughs up.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I know of zero JDM Twin scroll engine rebuilds, they are about as common as FQ series Evo's, that says it all i think and Evo's blow engines just as often as Scoobs, its just that there are more scoobs than evos so it looks less
Also the other point is that you dont see many high milage evo's, where as you do with scoobs, and even on here there are cars that have done over 150k miles without problems, do you know of any evo's with that mileage on?? i think not
But back to the main point, the evo does take the fun out of driving, and yes the Yokohama tyres suck when they are hot, and anyone remember that Evo that Evo mag had? crap tyres on a roundabout
If you want a driving machine, the JDM STi IS better than the Evo9, though it may not be as tunable, it is a more rewarding car (plus has any standard Evo done the ring in under 8 mins yet?)

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Bad road holding?

Tony

john banks

The JDM Subarus do have cross drilled cranks now though which possibly helps. If I wanted a standard car it would sound good because the smaller turbo, intercooler and injectors wouldn't matter so much.

scrappydoo

The yokos perform way better when hot Tony and have never gone off when i hav been driving on them.. as they are rated only to be used over about 10degrees i think..As for the nurburgring.. well the standard 9 lapped it in 8:11 maybe even less than that (cant recall off hand) and that was standard mind..The Sti did it in 8:24. Also the spec C is hardly standard is it..?? A truer compasion would be to put it against the RS as thats the lightweight version..humm!! Lets get some FQ/RS models on the ring as they are closer to the spec C specification and im sure they will knock 10-12 secs of the standard 9 with ease..

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Trust me the yoko's just went right off when hot, no where near as good as the RE070's, it just wanted to slide, the Impreza just wanted to grip.
As for the 9 on the ring v the Spec C..... well the 9 actually has more weight saving parts over the Spec C, more alloy body panels, but ive never seen the RS have a time set on nurburgring, which would be interesting but the Spec C is a model of impreza, just as they class an MR/FQ a model of evo, and they atleast gave you a video to watch of the Spec C doing the ring in under 8 mins, mitsubishi do the same???

Tony

craig5

they don't make a evo 9 rs it's called the gt and it's part of the standard evo model's

The Fixer

Tony, you cant compare a Standard EVO 9 with a Spec C they are not cars of the same group, perhaps a Spec C and an EVO 9 GT would be a better comparison.

Twin scroll engine still has the same problems, its the same engine as all the rest with different headers & turbo. It will fail like all the rest. The 4G63 engine is bullet proof compared to the flat 4, take it from somebody in the trade who deals with both that you have to be doing something seriously wrong with a 4G63 motor to blow it whereas its common place for Scoobs to drop big ends, plenty of low mileage Scoobs doing it Keeps us busy though


My Evo??? No sorry mate, idiot lost control coming the other way and wiped me out completely.

craig5

21 day's before i have to go to the dentist but this time i can't wait