Norman Kember freed
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i doubt the FO will allow him to. IMO, if you're not media, contractor, medical or UN personnel then visits to iraq's hotspots (ie 4 of the 18 provinces) by non-vital groups should only be allowed on the understanding that it is entirely at their own risk: that should they need to be rescued following kidnap, then they will be charged, in full, for military and diplomatic services rendered. why should my tax £ be spent on wiping the ***** of idiots when enough is already being spent on a godawful situation anyway?
*
the objective of the "christian protection teams" in iraq is to investigate alleged cases of detainee abuse carried out by coalition forces. unsurprisingly for a radical, left-wing religious group, neither the murder and mutilation of western hostages - nor the systematic daily murder of iraqi non-coms by iraqi, syrian, iranian and saudi terrorist insurgents - is their concern. classic leftie doublethink.
from the CPT own's website:
"CPT embraces the vision of unarmed intervention waged by committed peacemakers ready to risk injury and death in bold attempts to transform lethal conflict through the nonviolent power of God’s truth and love. Initiated by Mennonites, Brethren and Quakers with broad ecumenical participation, CPT’s ministry of Biblically-based and spiritually-centered peacemaking emphasizes creative public witness, nonviolent direct action and protection of human rights."
admirable i'm sure if you're a god-bothering zealot. in the real world: loopy loose cannons.
i notice with resignation that no-one in the media has asked obvious questions such as "why are you there?", "what have you achieved?", "why concentrate only on alleged abuses by coalition forces and not the indescriminate terror tactics of the insurgents?"
*
the objective of the "christian protection teams" in iraq is to investigate alleged cases of detainee abuse carried out by coalition forces. unsurprisingly for a radical, left-wing religious group, neither the murder and mutilation of western hostages - nor the systematic daily murder of iraqi non-coms by iraqi, syrian, iranian and saudi terrorist insurgents - is their concern. classic leftie doublethink.
from the CPT own's website:
"CPT embraces the vision of unarmed intervention waged by committed peacemakers ready to risk injury and death in bold attempts to transform lethal conflict through the nonviolent power of God’s truth and love. Initiated by Mennonites, Brethren and Quakers with broad ecumenical participation, CPT’s ministry of Biblically-based and spiritually-centered peacemaking emphasizes creative public witness, nonviolent direct action and protection of human rights."
admirable i'm sure if you're a god-bothering zealot. in the real world: loopy loose cannons.
i notice with resignation that no-one in the media has asked obvious questions such as "why are you there?", "what have you achieved?", "why concentrate only on alleged abuses by coalition forces and not the indescriminate terror tactics of the insurgents?"
Last edited by Holy Ghost; Mar 24, 2006 at 01:32 PM.
Class!
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From: Scoobynet
That UK based terrorist, forget his name - probably something Mohammed, was apparently "over the moon" at the news of his release.... yeah right. 
He'd probably been down his local mosque and gagging for a copy of his beheading video
He'd probably been down his local mosque and gagging for a copy of his beheading video
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Not that much money was spent on finding kember if any. They obviously didnt want to kill kember and therefore basically just let them go. No iraqi is going to try and have a gun fight with the occupying force in close range.
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From: A.K.A RAIDEN, Watford & Tidworth. V7 STI Type RA Spec C, V2 STI,97JDM WRX, Daytona 675R
Originally Posted by AudiLover
Not that much money was spent on finding kember if any. They obviously didnt want to kill kember and therefore basically just let them go. No iraqi is going to try and have a gun fight with the occupying force in close range.
Although they are picking up westren tendancies now. IE snipers who return to a good kill zone. IEDs from a distance all instead of blowing themselves up.
I think they did the maths and figured if they kept it up they'd all be gone on three years.
Edited to add most of the INSURGENTS are from another country..... Weird that.
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From: Does it matter?
Originally Posted by Leslie
I admire him for his attempt as a committed Christian to go out and try to do something at least to defuse the situation. It ws his choice to do it for altruistic motives and he did say beforehand that if he was captured that he did not wish the military to rescue him. I certainly think it is unnecessarily rude and unpleasant to call him by such unpleasant names.
It is worth mentioning that he was not rescued by force since an Iraqi had led the forces to the house where they were imprisoned and their captors had fled the scene. They were released without any fighting from a room on the top floor of the house.
it is regrettable to see how uncharitable some can be with their comments.
Les
It is worth mentioning that he was not rescued by force since an Iraqi had led the forces to the house where they were imprisoned and their captors had fled the scene. They were released without any fighting from a room on the top floor of the house.
it is regrettable to see how uncharitable some can be with their comments.
Les
I believe your looking at this through rose-tinted specs. Yes, I accept the very gracious thing he did about going over there (IIRC he wanted to do something before he was too old - in that respect, he should have taken up sky-diving!), the guy was totally STUPID for going over there. And there isn't much to be said about his family, if they let him go
The general public opinion is that he has wasted valuable resources that could have been deployed elsewhere. On that note, if he hasn't thanked the troops (I can only he hope he has) - agreed, they should have left him there.
As to your comments about the "rude & unpleasant" comments - rubbish. In my case, I was being reserved. The chap got everything he deserved and was lucky not to pay for his stupidity with his life.
Dan
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Originally Posted by Holy Ghost
"why concentrate only on alleged abuses by coalition forces and not the indescriminate terror tactics of the insurgents?"
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There are times when what you consider to be pragmatism is really unnecessary and unpleasant comment in an attempt to bolster up your own views.
He went out as a member of the CPT in an effort to do something to stop the violence. There are times when it is considered necessary to make what appears to be a useless gesture against what one believes to be wrong regardless of the consequences. That used to be a basic principle of the attitude of the British against perceived unfair or shameful behaviour or in defence of this country and its way of life and that has served us well in past conflicts.
We see a country which was attacked illegally for the reasons of self aggrandisement by our leaders and we were lied to over the reasons for doing it. No thought was given how to control the country after the war, except to get the oil fields on line as soon as possible! The country has now been destroyed, the infrastructure does not work, and many thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed both during and since the war. We could probably multiply the official estimates by a significant factor. The useless attempt to force so called democracy on the country is failing, it take many years to generate a real democracy and it has to be done by the people of that country. We are told that an average of 50-60 Iraqis lose their lives every day. we are also told by the initial leader of the Iraqis, selected by the Allies, that the country is virtually at civil war.
I personally cannot feel proud of what this country has done to Iraq in cahoots with that other prat.
I can understand why Norman Kember, with his own personal beliefs and his membership of the CPT felt that he had to go out there and make some kind of effort to generate some kind of understanding somewhere which might develop further to do some good somewhere. You can't tell until you try it and I respect his beliefs and his courage for trying it.
He left instructions that he was a free agent and did not wish to put the military at risk by rescuing him if he was captured. he did not ask for the SAS to get him out even though he has expressed his thanks to them.
My point was that he is a good man, in every sense of the word, and therefore deserves at least some respect for his bravery even from those who disagree with his action. He certainly has not earned the sort of unpleasant remarks and the name calling from some of those who seem to think that is necessary to strengthen their arguments. That sort of thing comes from a lack of self confidence in my book!
Les
He went out as a member of the CPT in an effort to do something to stop the violence. There are times when it is considered necessary to make what appears to be a useless gesture against what one believes to be wrong regardless of the consequences. That used to be a basic principle of the attitude of the British against perceived unfair or shameful behaviour or in defence of this country and its way of life and that has served us well in past conflicts.
We see a country which was attacked illegally for the reasons of self aggrandisement by our leaders and we were lied to over the reasons for doing it. No thought was given how to control the country after the war, except to get the oil fields on line as soon as possible! The country has now been destroyed, the infrastructure does not work, and many thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed both during and since the war. We could probably multiply the official estimates by a significant factor. The useless attempt to force so called democracy on the country is failing, it take many years to generate a real democracy and it has to be done by the people of that country. We are told that an average of 50-60 Iraqis lose their lives every day. we are also told by the initial leader of the Iraqis, selected by the Allies, that the country is virtually at civil war.
I personally cannot feel proud of what this country has done to Iraq in cahoots with that other prat.
I can understand why Norman Kember, with his own personal beliefs and his membership of the CPT felt that he had to go out there and make some kind of effort to generate some kind of understanding somewhere which might develop further to do some good somewhere. You can't tell until you try it and I respect his beliefs and his courage for trying it.
He left instructions that he was a free agent and did not wish to put the military at risk by rescuing him if he was captured. he did not ask for the SAS to get him out even though he has expressed his thanks to them.
My point was that he is a good man, in every sense of the word, and therefore deserves at least some respect for his bravery even from those who disagree with his action. He certainly has not earned the sort of unpleasant remarks and the name calling from some of those who seem to think that is necessary to strengthen their arguments. That sort of thing comes from a lack of self confidence in my book!
Les
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