JTaylor

I just found your comments to be particularly nauseating and self congratulatory. Still, no hard feelings.

Bicepius

Anyone who does not think there is a god… is blinded by the devil.
Anyone who doubts of his existence… is blinded by the devil.

That’s his job.

Choose which side you wish to join....

We are all descendants of Adam/eve.. Who disobeyed god and ate from the tree of good and evil, which god told them not to eat of. Which was the ultimate sin... this means that no man can enter the kingdom of heaven unless they repent, ask god/Jesus into there heart and obey his teachings and be filled with the holy spirit. This can be done with a simple pray. However god gave you free will, so you may do as you please. But I warn you.. you are endanger of hell fire... its harsh. But what have you got to loose really guys?.. you only gain from it trust me.

Gods chosen nation is the Jews, but back in the day they rejected him...so god came as a man(Jesus) to earth, to give any non jew(gentiles) an opportunity of eternal life with god in heaven..(as well as the jews) ..he died on the cross for us.. it was his shed of blood that put man in right standing with god.

I’m a born again Christian.. but looking at it in a non born again perspective.. the devil is doing a pretty good job. So that’s why I pray for you guys. But if you just think about it.... the earth and the universe etc... we take it all for granted! open your eyes!

Please take time to read genesis chapters 1 - 3, before you reply.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...201;&version=9;
I like reading it in King james version but you may change it to new king james if you dont like the old english.

Cheers.

Luke.

RedFive

As I said: weird. I still don't have the slightest clue as to why, but I guess I'll have to live with that. And this thread is not about our personal feelings anyway...

You read a lot of Dawkins, then ? Know a lot about sociobiology ?

JTaylor

I've read Dawkins - who hasn't? I don't however consider myself to be a sociolbiologist; just a layman with an interest and a sprinkling knowledge.

StickyMicky

LOL!!!!

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

RedFive

So you are not really knowledgeable on this subject, but did want to find my postings "nauseating" ? Repeatedly ?

I'm at a loss dude. And perhaps, just perhaps, an apology is in order.

Could it be you misinterpreted my post ? Like, totally ? Is it because I'm not a native speaker, and make the odd spelling mistake ?

GaryCat

There's some interesting points on here about why did God let New Orleans, or the Tsunami happen? Who said God was benevolent towards humans? Perhaps God prefers the Guinea Worm - read the life cycle here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_worm

Here is a creature intelligently designed so that in order to breed it causes a burning sensation that can only be soothed with water. As soon as it is immersed it releases larvae into the water which work their way back into the food chain and live as parasites in humans. They even work their way from the stomach into the lower limbs where they can cause the burning blisters and start the cycle all over again. The human hosts endure severe pain and often die of infection but so what? Gods favourite little parasite lives to breed again and again.

Surely such a complex life cycle for a primitive parasitic worm proves God has a hand in the design of such creatures.

GaryCat

We only use 10% of our brains? Well whoever came up with that must have only been using 10% of their brain so there is a 90% chance that they are wrong.

Bubba po

Ok, who alerted the god-botherer

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

oh how i will laugh when im driving my subaru in heaving ,whilst you rotters are burning in hell

GaryCat

These lyrics by Neil Peart of Rush sum up my views perfectly...

Freewill by Rush

There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
"The stars aren't aligned,
Or the gods are malign..."
Blame is better to give than receive.

Chorus
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland.

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.

Chorus

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.

Chorus

Bubba po

Isn't a drummer a bloke, who by definition, hangs around with musicians.

warrenm2

OK then SB (and Bicepius) - I'll ask a third time. Do you think the Earth was created 6500 years ago? Do you think woman was made from mans rib? Do you believe in fairies/pixies/Harry Potter? And do you think the Bible is literal. Simple questions, shouldnt have too much difficulty in answering.

OllyK

Is it?? It forms no part of the god Cuthulu. Are you saying all gods must encompance love or is that just part of your definition?

You're hand waving to avoid the question again. I can provide "my" definition of love and answer questions about and I'm quite happy to accept that it will vary from other people's. There is no reason why your view of your god has to be consistent with anybody elses, but if you don't know what it is then what do you have faith in?

If those that believe in "a god" refuse to try and explain what they consider to be god, it does make it rather difficult to discuss it. It's a bit like saying "I have something on my desk, I'm not going to tell you anything about it, but I want to discuss it". Again, this is why I keep coming back to the Abrahamic definition / concept of god, it's well known and provides a discussion point, even if it is logically inconsistent.

Is this another attribute of your god or a supposition?

Being spoken about after your death is hardly "living" by any reasonable defintion. "Their memory goes on" I'll give you, and maybe your god is long since deceased and that's all that remains?!

OllyK

I'd don't see any point in commenting on any of that other than the part I've left, and I'll I want to say on that is "Please stop doing so", pray for yourself by all means, but don't for a moment suppose that I want you to pray for me, I find it rather insulting.

Diablo

Have they not now discovered spiders trapped in tree sap from hundereds of millions of years ago?

Does that not predate the whole Adam and Eve thing?

Personally, I believe that there is some "entity" on a higher dimention (a God or Gods if that fits your beliefs), but I have a problem with the entire concept of the Bible (and indeed any other historical religious reference)

My own view is that the old and new testaments were written by deeply religious individuals certainly, but not based upon historically factual events, rather as a means of presenting a scenario which is quite magnificantly incredible (in the truest sense of the word) in a manner that makes it more credible, and therefore believable from the perspective of building a faith.

The old and new testament are flilled with events that are defined as miracles. And yet there is little, if anything, within documented historical fact of any similar significance.

Those of the faiths will tell you that you have to "believe" and that God need not prove his existence.

Fair point, but why the need to do it then, and not now?

StickyMicky

heaving?

OllyK

I wondered last night what we actually need a god for or even the concept of a god for in this day and age. It seems that our need for a god is to fill in some of the gaps, however today there are far fewer gaps than there were even a few hundred years ago. The 2 big questions seem to be "how did all this start?" and "what happens when we die?". Some people may say that their god gives them comfort or guidance, but that doesn't seem to be universal and in many ways it is derived out of the 2 questions posed anyway.

I suspect 4000 years or so ago when Judaism started to emerge out of its preceding religions that the questions relating to origin was not as broad as it is today due to lack of knowledge and may have been more simply "Who was the first mother and father and where did they come from". I can understand how early man got himself in to a "chicken and the egg" type scenario over this and so had to come up with a first couple to start the human race from. The problem then arises of where they come from. Without the concept of evolving from simpler organisms it isn't too hard to see how early man invoked a divine creator to produce that first couple (the concept exists in the religions that predate Judaism as well). So now that we have the answer to the original question it has been broadened to cover the origins of the universe.

So let’s look at the origins of the universe and some of the things we know about it and some of the things that have been hypothesised. We have a pretty good understanding of what happened a couple of milliseconds after the big bang and from that point forward. Before that point, many of the physical laws that we know today have little meaning. So what was there before the big bang? The simple answer is, we don’t know with any certainty, but does it makes sense to suppose there was nothing?

One hypothesis is that the universe has always been, that it is eternal. Those that believe in a god tend to say how preposterous an idea this is at this point. Of course they say this, not because they can’t understand it or because it does not seem feasible, but because suddenly we no longer actually need a creator for the universe, and 1 of the reasons for having a god disappears. You will of course hear all sorts of convoluted arguments about how the universe can’t be eternal (they’re usually circular arguments) but if you accept that something can be eternal i.e. a god, you suddenly start looking rather foolish if you claim that nothing else can be. Doing so is known as “special pleading” and is a logical fallacy. Now I’m not trying to claim this is how the universe is, but of the many ideas and hypotheses out there and the even fewer that I understand, there is a certain elegancy to this.

So that only really leaves us with needing a god to handle the “what happens after death” scenario. Now it may still be feasible that there is a “soul collector” if you will, to deal with all this, but it certainly seems to be a rather minor role compared to the one that god once had. I suspect the question around what happens after death will remain a much harder question to answer than that of the origins of the universe.

OllyK

I think if you read SB posts, it is apparent that his beliefs are far more akin to those of deism than those of the Abrahamic religions.

OllyK

There is nothing new in this, and the YEC / ID brigade just put it down to them being planted by the devil to try and fool you. Either that or god did it himself to test you. I've heard both explanations.

Oh god does still perform miracles, they've managed one to attribute to Pope JP2 already so that they can get him canonised.

In reality, people are not as gullible these days as they once were and we have a better knowledge of how things work and how to perform "tricks".

OllyK

Another interesting question for those that believe in the god of the bible, why pray to him (other than he demands it). I can understand thowing yourself prostrate and worshipping him, but why pray asking to save people or for help to be given to victims of disasters? If god has given man free will, then he cannot interfere, if can't interfere then he can't respond to the prayers anyway so you'll only ever be disapointed. So why do it?

Bicepius

I do believe that man was created around 6500 years ago, but the earth and universe probably millions of years ago. I do believe that eve was made from adams rib and thats why a man has 1 less rib than a woman, and why we marry come together as one etc etc. I dont believe in faires/pixies/harry potter, but angels and evil spirits/demons. I only go by what the bible teaches me and my interpretation through the holyspirit/god. Alot of the time the bible is misinterpreted, and sometimes its hard to understand but I wont go into why that happens now. The book of Genesis is pretty clear to all of us, its just whether you accept it or not.

Im sorry you took it as an insult.

Geezer

Bicepius,
Do you believe in Carbon dating? If the answer is yes, please explain why there are thousands of verified remains of humans from before 6500 years ago, and in places where they should not have been according to the bible?

If you disbelieve that techniques such as carbon dating are valid, please explain why. Answers like "God/Devil is testing us" are not good enough.

Also, men and women have the same number of ribs. Not even the bible says that men have less, but that Adam lost one to make Eve. If you lose some part of your body, do your children get born with the same disablilty? What utter tosh!

Does being a born again Christian mean you suddenly have the intelligence of a an infant? It would seem so....................

Geezer

OllyK

But they don't. Most people, regardless of sex have 12 pairs of ribs. Some people have 1 set more or less, again, regardless of sex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rib_cage

It's clear that it's mostly allegory.

Have you ever considered why it may appear to be an insult?

jasey

I believe in ghosts.

Lets face it - it's at least as plausible as believing in God

ps I don't really believe in ghosts - but I do believe that I'm always right

Ted Maul

I'm afraid it's not worth debating these points with religious people. I know of highly educated (eg cambridge Bsc)) people who are religious. When I question them on the apparant illogical stance they hold up, they seem to glaze over and are unable/unwilling to converse in a scientific debate, it just seems that they are fundamentally unable to question their faiths in this manner. You don't convince people out of being religious, it has to just happen, unfortunately. Over time, decades etc we will hopefully see a decline and this is already thankfully happening in England with the reduction of Christians, and hopefully this will happen across the world. Let's just hope that inter marriage, cultural bleeding, mixing etc will slowly erode the fundamentals that brain wash children to grow up belieiving its the right thing.

ps - for those that say I don't believe in religion but I do think that ther is a higher entity etc etc, for me this is just 21st religion, and fundamentally no different from the ancient religions, and should slowly fade away as well.

try not to treate religious people with contempt, its not their fault their like that. sympathise and move on.

Ted

lozgti

Find it interesting that those on the science side of the fence are far more intent up disproving existance as opposed to believers forcing their views.

Does the need have to be pursued so vigourously.Why not just allow those that do believe get on with it?

Or maybe it is that nagging doubt that needs to be resolved.An itch that needs to be scratched/obliterated

jasey

It's not their fault that they have "faith" in an old story book or whatever they follow - the problem arises when they prey on people who have just had a crisis and sign them up to the bollox that they believe.

They're no better than ambulance chasers in my books !

Bicepius

Ok I got that one wrong, thanx for correcting me.. I need more coffee .
This Thread can go on for ever.. we can always look at science for the answer, but the real truth is in the bible. Its all down to faith, you can take it with a pinch of salt and find out when you die.. to see if its right or wrong..but it will be to late by then. When your brown bread its not just some black void, your spirits live on for eternity, theres 2 places to go. Make your decision.

Have a nice day.