JTaylor

I don't mean to pick on you here RedFive....but you seem to talk a lot of drivel, dangerously wrapped up and disguised in coherant sentances.

furrydice79

JTaylor

That's nice Furrydice.

Could you add some supporting text to indicate your point please?

Geezer

I must admit, I was a bit lost on that one too!

Maybe he means the Masons created it all................

Geezer

JTaylor

I'm guessing Furydice has just finished one or more of the Dan Brown books.

OllyK

It isn't quite as simple as you are trying to make it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Leslie

This is a question that you can argue and discuss as much as you like, with seemingly convincing arguments and so called facts and theories on both sides, but you will never come to an answer. It is Life's great mystery.

It eventually comes down to what your own conscience tells you what to personally believe.

There are many reasons for what you actually believe or tell yourself to believe also.

Les

OllyK

Science has proposed a number of hypotheses, religion has asserted an absolute position. Religion cannot progress from its position, science can.

rb5_336

My personal beliefs have in the last few years become clear, and even though i was brought up as a catholic and had it forced down my throat as a kid, i am now a complete atheist. And even more so I do believe religion has a lot to answer for, and the roots of a lot of evil in this world is down to strong religious beliefs.

I think people should wake up and smell the coffee, and indeed as per the thread title, get over the fact there (probbaly) is no god. At the same time I have no issue with people persuing their own beliefs, but I do find it disturbing that there has been a sigificant rise of religious hatred across the world in recent times.

Geezer

Les, there are no facts on the religion side, only myths and heresay.

Admittedly science has a lot of theories that are not proven, but at least we can modify it as we learn more, there is no such flexibility in religion, so it becomes a victim of it's own contradicitons.

However, this sort of discussion does have it's uses. As far as I'm aware, Religious Education is still taught in primary schools and it still teaches this rubbish. So, with that in mind, as children we all believed it (probably), and some of us questioned it as we got older and learned more, and some rejected the idea. This discussion will allow people to help make up their minds.

It has to be said, though, that more people turn their backs on religion from a standpoint of belief then the other way round, and that is very telling.

And, it makes for a good thread

Geezer

OllyK

Please....they are hypotheses not a theories. They are a way off testing ideas like strings.

Mick

iTrader: (1)

I don't belive in religion... I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way we can get to heaven when we die. I have faith in him. I live my life trying to keep his commands and in the way that he did.

Jesus said 'But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
- Matthew 5:44, KJV'

There is no room for hate in a life as a disciple of Jesus Christ.

furrydice79

havent read any dan brown books,,have read a few david icke books tho,, havent got anything to write, cant be bothered really, i enjoyed reading the article and just thought id throw in this pic as a statement..
pick the bones from what i wrote by all means i dnt mind

OllyK

You've contradicted yourself already

What about

Sbradley

Geezer, God doesn't preach anything. Preaching is done by people in His name, often to a less than divine agenda.

As I have said before, organised religion, those who bend organised religion to their own aims and God actually have very little in common.

Many people seem to confuse God with religion. Religion is a way (the right way, naturally) of worshipping God. Each religion will tell you that their way is the right way, the only way, and that through them you will achieve paradise in whatever form that may be. Needless to say, if you follow any other path you will be damned in some way for a variable period of time.

Religion may well be a crock.

But God, in my opinion, isn't. That's my opinion - you may not agree but that's up to you. I have no interest in converting you. I'll discuss opinions with you until the cows come home, but your relationship with God is between the two of you. If you choose not to believe in Him then that's your call.

Science has taught us a lot, and will continue to teach us more and more. One day, perhaps, we will have all the answers. I am a big fan of science and if progress - I see nothing at odds with my faith there. But it amuses me to see the number of people on this tread who claim to have a scientific approach but whose minds are as closed to the possibility of something other than their narrow set of beliefs as the most radical cleric...

SB

RedFive

Excuse me ?

Sbradley

Hi Geezer,

Not picking on you - honest

RE is stll taught in schools, yes, but these days its place is far more in educating our children about the beliefs and customs of people from a different background than it is teaching about God. Indeed, even when I was at school (and I'm 42 now) RE was closer to history than to a religious study, with an amount of sociology thrown in. So I think it still has a place as a means of helping our children grow into well informed bigots rather than ignorant ones...

That last bit was a joke, by the way. In case those of you with the official Scoobynet humour bypass didn't realise.

SB

OllyK

Organised religion has it's own agenda.

There are more religions than those derived from the 3 Abrahamic ones. Bhuddism for example, makes no mention of damnation IIRC.

The scientific mind isn't closed, it just works within the realms of what is known, things for which there is evidence. If science finds evidence for a deivine creator, I'd have no problem accepting that there is one, but I'm certainly not going to believe something merely on somebodies say so.

It wouldn't take much for me to change my mind and accept the existence of a god. What would it take for the average god beliver to change their mind? If you cannot think of something then maybe you're trying to pin the closed minded label to the wrong person!

Geezer

Hang on a minute, the bible is Gods word. The ten commandments are Gods commandments, as written down by Moses. Surely, all the preaching is based upon Gods word. God/Jesus preaches to a few, they preach to more, and so on.


You ain't wrong there! However, seeing as I don't believe in God, it is impossible to seperate the two, as God is an invention of man.

Once again, this is Gods word, only preached to the rest of us by priests etc. because God is busy doing something else.


That's an interesting viewpoint, because faith is actually based upon belief without proof, so whilst you say athiests are blinkered, anyone who says they believe in God is automatically as blinkered as the most radical cleric.

Non believers base their non-belief upon a lack of evidence, nothing more. Oue view of reality changes as new discoveries are made instead of being stuck with old doctrines. Although I don't believe God exists, if someone proves he exists, I will gladly (well, maybe not gladly) accept it. However, if it were ever possible to prove he did not exist, people would still believe it. Now that is blinkered!

And I don't think you're picking on me, this is what the internet is all about! I luuuuurve Scoobynet discussions!

Geezer

OllyK

This isn't your own work now is it??

I'd accept there is a god if there was proof, still doesn't mean I'd worship him though, especially if he is the pentulant child that is the Abrahamic god.

Sbradley

But Olly, the truth is that, short of God showing Himself on earth, there is never going to be incontrovertible proof of his existence. And likewise it's essentially impossible to disprove it as well, because if a person wants to believe then they will always find a flaw in the proof. In the same way that His appearance would still fail to convince some of the sceptics who would find a "rational" explanation for it.

The simple word "existence" offers huge scope for debate. When does someting cease to exist? Or indeed, when does it start? Because something isn't visible or detectable with the equipment you have available, does that mean it doesn't exist? Can something which exists only in concept be said to exist at all? What about if you remember something that is no longer in a physical form? Is that an existence?

So there are so many variables, what-ifs and alternative approaches that neither of us will ever have a concrete answer. Until we die, of course. Then we may, or may not, have the proof we need. Well actually we will have the proof. Whether we are able to recognise it as such is another matter entirely, and depends rather on whether you're right or I am.

Of course, we could both be right. Maybe you get what you believe when all's said and done. All I know for sure is that it's the last great adventure, and one I go to without fear because I know that, even if I'm in for a while of figurative boiler stoking, at least I'll know the answer! Or te first decent night's sleep I've had for a while...



SB

OllyK

Unless you can tell me what god looks like, you're on to a loser with that one. It's about looking at the claims made about god and testing them. The definition of god isn't even consistent which makes the testing rather difficult. Once those that believe can tell us what we are supposed to be looking for, we can start devising some experiments.

As I have said, you example is a poor one and not how science would provide evidence anyway. We can only really disprove something in a mathematical sense, the other sciences are not that precise. As a result it works on the basis of observing things, and from observing what is happening proposing a hypothesis to try and explain those observations, from there tests are devised to see if the hypothesis has any validity and if it does we can propose a theory. At the moment, at least as far as god is concerned, we haven't even really got to the observational stage. There is no observed effect to disprove.

There is debate outside the more formal sciences such as in philosophy. In the formal sciences it really boils down to is there any evidence to suggest the described thing exists, can it be observed or does it cause an effect that can be observed? You can't see a virus with the naked eye, but you can certainly observe it's effect. If you propose there is something out there, that cannot be observed directly and has no observable effect on anything, to all intents and purposes it does not exist, i.e. even if it does it may as well not for all the effect it has.

You seem to want to complicate things beyond what is necessary. What else do you belive in with no evidence?

Not if you believe in the Abrahmic god, it's hell, heaven or purgatory, there is not "nothing" option, or the bible is wrong, and that opens a whole new can of worms.

JTaylor

You articulate your points in a relatively coherant way R5 but suggest that Snet users would refer to your Muslim friend as a 'paki'; I would suggest this is way out of line.

"Stop spouting email-linked opinions, start reading FFS." was your advice to Fuzz and you may well have studied Theology and Physics, but your prostylizing is laughable.

I didn't want to get into a row, but took issue with the flippant 'paki' comment.

You are not excused.

StickyMicky

how long before i can unlock the part of my brain that will let me teleport and read peoples minds


strange thread this, considering i watched monty pythons "meaning of life" last night

its all about the fish isnt it

StickyMicky

the G/F`s grandad was/might still be? a "Master of the Lodge"
he refuses to talk about it

"they" keep giving him "gifts" like big *** bling watches and jewellery, I'm told the wives had a supporting group, its interesting as hell, but you never get any real info from them.

JTaylor

This was the post R5

" His girlfriend is a Muslim BTW, and a very very nice person she is too." Goodness me, a nice Muslim . Wow, you're so liberal and inclusive R5!

"I guess Scoobynet would call him a "Paki". Sure R5

<must..... read....the...Guardian and....consider...getting...coloured.. friend.>

OllyK

Interestingly (or maybe not ) a lot of psychics claim that we only use 10-20% of our brians and they have managed to unlock the remaining part where the psychic abilities exist.

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

StickyMicky

i belive we do not use all our brians

some more then others

this stuff intrests me quite a bit

OllyK

Oh we use it all alright, some people may not use it all very effectively, but they use it all.