There is no GOD, get over it.
17 March 2006, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuzz
I think it stemed from Illness for one of my family.
Where's this morsel heading?
You think they need "something" to hang onto because maybe the man in the dark cloak is sharpening his scythe ?
Andy
Where's this morsel heading?
You think they need "something" to hang onto because maybe the man in the dark cloak is sharpening his scythe ?
Andy
I've yet to meet a born-again anything who just woke up one morning and just decided that God must really exist.
I suspect you will be the only person brave enough to answer my question - cheers.
When someone dies - you only have the memories - so make sure you build up enough good memories when they are alive. I reckon that turning to God at the point of death happens when you've not done what you wanted to when you were living your one and only life !
17 March 2006, 08:06 AM
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Too much emphasis on people 'wasting' their time believing in God.
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
17 March 2006, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Too much emphasis on people 'wasting' their time believing in God.
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
.SB - This is a joke
17 March 2006, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
Olly, does your atheism also preclude humour?
17 March 2006, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Too much emphasis on people 'wasting' their time believing in God.
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
It doesn't take up any time you know and it doesn't detract from having a great life with your loved ones.Those that do believe do have an absolutely normal life....they just happen to have a belief that many take great pains to try and show they must be mad.
Sometimes that is as amusing as the atheists find 'believing' is amusing
If your god has no impact on your life - why continue to believe in it?
17 March 2006, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jasey
What about all those Sunday mornings worshipping a bloke from a story book when you could be ******** the wife .
SB - This is a joke
.SB - This is a joke
I'm married with kids.What's ******** I do believe the Human Race thinks it is far cleverer than it actually is though.Can't remember the article but there was something about our rate of inventing learning and understanding is less than it was in about 1700.The best we have come up with in recent times is the i-pod.
Reason for my statement? I think earth and the Human Race are a tiny blip in an enourmous picture that none of will ever understand.Even sending a crappy knackered probe to have a nose at Mars doesn't help.I do believe we are not alone in terms of other races (are we so arrogant to believe we are the only planet bumping around the Universe with people clinging on?)
And yes,I believe there is God behind all of it,possibly having a snigger at our attepts to unravel it all(with the help of a thousand tunes on the i pod)
17 March 2006, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I'm married with kids.What's ********
Originally Posted by lozgti
I do believe we are not alone in terms of other races (are we so arrogant to believe we are the only planet bumping around the Universe with people clinging on?)
Originally Posted by lozgti
And yes,I believe there is God behind all of it,possibly having a snigger at our attepts to unravel it all(with the help of a thousand tunes on the i pod)
My best bet is that he will do this through his latest son - George W Bush !
17 March 2006, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
While believing in a "personal god" may not have a significant impact, that is not the case for devout muslims who dedicate a significant part of their life to being on their knees and facing Mecca. Devout christians expend a lot of time and effort in their churches, the JW's spend it doing that AND pestering people in their homes.
If your god has no impact on your life - why continue to believe in it?
SB
17 March 2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jasey
What about all those Sunday mornings worshipping a bloke from a story book when you could be ******** the wife .
SB - This is a joke
.SB - This is a joke
Priorities and free will. Plus He gave us the ability to enjoy sex and it seems rude and ungrateful not to...
This may or may not be a joke
SB
17 March 2006, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I do believe the Human Race thinks it is far cleverer than it actually is though.Can't remember the article but there was something about our rate of inventing learning and understanding is less than it was in about 1700.The best we have come up with in recent times is the i-pod.
Reason for my statement? I think earth and the Human Race are a tiny blip in an enourmous picture that none of will ever understand.Even sending a crappy knackered probe to have a nose at Mars doesn't help.I do believe we are not alone in terms of other races (are we so arrogant to believe we are the only planet bumping around the Universe with people clinging on?)
And yes,I believe there is God behind all of it,possibly having a snigger at our attepts to unravel it all(with the help of a thousand tunes on the i pod)
Reason for my statement? I think earth and the Human Race are a tiny blip in an enourmous picture that none of will ever understand.Even sending a crappy knackered probe to have a nose at Mars doesn't help.I do believe we are not alone in terms of other races (are we so arrogant to believe we are the only planet bumping around the Universe with people clinging on?)
And yes,I believe there is God behind all of it,possibly having a snigger at our attepts to unravel it all(with the help of a thousand tunes on the i pod)
Our understanding of the universe grows all the time. We may already may know much of what there is to know, we may know and tiny piece of it all, it's impossible to say. Sending probes to Mars is just the early steps of what will undoutbedly be a very long an interesting journey. A journey that is eminently more more enlightening than the being stuck in the bitgotted doctrines of organised religion.
Geezer
17 March 2006, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I do believe the Human Race thinks it is far cleverer than it actually is though.Can't remember the article but there was something about our rate of inventing learning and understanding is less than it was in about 1700.The best we have come up with in recent times is the i-pod.
HTH
17 March 2006, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by warrenm2
This is absolute claptrap and Im surprised you expose yourself to public ridicule with such ignorant dross
HTH
HTH
Perhaps read it,maybe even consider it.You might even be surprised.
17 March 2006, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Perhaps read it,maybe even consider it.You might even be surprised.
And I will read it if you provide a link.....
17 March 2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by warrenm2
Im surprised at how stupid you are, yes. And I will read it if you provide a link.....
And I will read it if you provide a link.....Disappointingly they didn't ask for scoobynet's opinion.
We might be moving off at a tangent here.Thanks for the nice comments BTW
17 March 2006, 03:29 PM
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What exactly do you think that article proves? We are running out of resources and over populating the planet, but we already know that. What does this have to do with the existence of God?
It doesn't say we aren't as clever, just it's harder to come up with new ideas. That's not really that difficult to see.
Geezer
It doesn't say we aren't as clever, just it's harder to come up with new ideas. That's not really that difficult to see.
Geezer
17 March 2006, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Geezer
What exactly do you think that article proves? We are running out of resources and over populating the planet, but we already know that. What does this have to do with the existence of God?
It doesn't say we aren't as clever, just it's harder to come up with new ideas. That's not really that difficult to see.
Geezer
It doesn't say we aren't as clever, just it's harder to come up with new ideas. That's not really that difficult to see.
Geezer
.Anyway - have a good weekend one and all.
May your "God" be with you.
17 March 2006, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
While I've been in the internet free void for the last couple of days I have had a chance to do some navel gazing and try to figure out some sort of definition for what I see as God.
As several people have asked, here's a stab at a definition.
This is not easy, but it's a basis for what I believe in. Please note that we are talking about God here - not the church, the bible or any religion you like. Nor am I referring to any of His authorised representatives on earth, claimed or otherwise.
Please preface all the following comments with "I believe" or something of that ilk.
Right.
God isn't an elderly chap sitting on a cloud. Nor is he one of many manifestations we see represented lobbing thunderbolts around. God, if He has a shape at all, is somewhat amorphous. In fact amoebic might be a better description, as I'll attempt to explain later.
Several sources say "God is love." I prefer to see God as positive energy. That's love, happiness, kindness and so on. Energy is the only word I can use though it isn't really the right term - at least not in our current frame of reference - because this energy attracts like for like. So positive energy accumulates together. Perhaps there is an opposite as well, where all the nasty stuff - hate, fear, anger etc - gathers. I don't know.
So God is an amoebic blob of positive energy. We know that our thoughts, feeling, emotions and indeed our actions are all the result pulses of electricity going from a part of our brains to another part, either firing a physical or a chemical response. We also know that when we die that electrical activity stops. We also know that any electrical pulses are detectable and that they affect things around them - magnetic fields, for example. Now maybe the energy that we produce constantly as a function of our living goes off into the void and collects with its similar energy. If we do lots of good, positive suff then it collects with the good, and vice versa. So we are, in essence (literally) with God. And when we die, the last vestiges of our electrical energy peter out and disperse the same way.
Of course, like any other single celled organism, there is a nucleus. That bit I can't explain, even vaguely. I can't explain how God made everything. Maybe He's been around for a very long time and is simply the acumulated energy of many, many previous life forces in many, many previous universes, gradually developing the sentient power to influence His environment. In honesty I can't even put my hand on my heart and declare that I truly believe He did create it all. But I can see no problem with evolutionists and creationists living side by side if you accept that when God created man in His own image he created a single celled creature. And that single cell creature divided (figuratively giving up that mythical rib) to create another. And we evolved from there. He may well have put the mechanisms in place to allow that evolution, but I still don't see a problem with being a believer in evolution and in God.
That'll do for the moment. More when I can get my head around some other bits.
SB
As several people have asked, here's a stab at a definition.
This is not easy, but it's a basis for what I believe in. Please note that we are talking about God here - not the church, the bible or any religion you like. Nor am I referring to any of His authorised representatives on earth, claimed or otherwise.
Please preface all the following comments with "I believe" or something of that ilk.
Right.
God isn't an elderly chap sitting on a cloud. Nor is he one of many manifestations we see represented lobbing thunderbolts around. God, if He has a shape at all, is somewhat amorphous. In fact amoebic might be a better description, as I'll attempt to explain later.
Several sources say "God is love." I prefer to see God as positive energy. That's love, happiness, kindness and so on. Energy is the only word I can use though it isn't really the right term - at least not in our current frame of reference - because this energy attracts like for like. So positive energy accumulates together. Perhaps there is an opposite as well, where all the nasty stuff - hate, fear, anger etc - gathers. I don't know.
So God is an amoebic blob of positive energy. We know that our thoughts, feeling, emotions and indeed our actions are all the result pulses of electricity going from a part of our brains to another part, either firing a physical or a chemical response. We also know that when we die that electrical activity stops. We also know that any electrical pulses are detectable and that they affect things around them - magnetic fields, for example. Now maybe the energy that we produce constantly as a function of our living goes off into the void and collects with its similar energy. If we do lots of good, positive suff then it collects with the good, and vice versa. So we are, in essence (literally) with God. And when we die, the last vestiges of our electrical energy peter out and disperse the same way.
Of course, like any other single celled organism, there is a nucleus. That bit I can't explain, even vaguely. I can't explain how God made everything. Maybe He's been around for a very long time and is simply the acumulated energy of many, many previous life forces in many, many previous universes, gradually developing the sentient power to influence His environment. In honesty I can't even put my hand on my heart and declare that I truly believe He did create it all. But I can see no problem with evolutionists and creationists living side by side if you accept that when God created man in His own image he created a single celled creature. And that single cell creature divided (figuratively giving up that mythical rib) to create another. And we evolved from there. He may well have put the mechanisms in place to allow that evolution, but I still don't see a problem with being a believer in evolution and in God.
That'll do for the moment. More when I can get my head around some other bits.
SB
Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, merely transformed from one to the other (in either direction), so in that respect we are eternal. You don't seem to be suggesting any kind of sentient afterlife, merely the conservation of energy - or have I missed something?
17 March 2006, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Can't remember the article but there was something about our rate of inventing learning and understanding is less than it was in about 1700.The best we have come up with in recent times is the i-pod.
ETA: And indeed you were. The level of innovation peaked, according to the article in 1873, but there is no mention of learning or understanding. Looking purely at new things invented is a rather short sighted way of looking at things. While the microchip has been around for decades, the ones we have today bare little resemblance to the ones of the early 90's never mind before that.
Last edited by OllyK; 17 March 2006 at 04:27 PM.
17 March 2006, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
You're still blurring the line between believing in God and believing in the church. Religion was not the title of the thread and its rights and wrongs should be in a different thread
Belief in God can have a huge impact on one's life without demanding a massive change in behaviour or waste of effort.
SB
SB
17 March 2006, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Please try and recall it as I think you are flat out wrong on that.
I will just continue to read with interest As said above,have a good weekend everyone.
17 March 2006, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Remove the concept of good and bad from energy, remove the labels of "him" and "god" and you've pretty much described the natural universe.
Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, merely transformed from one to the other (in either direction), so in that respect we are eternal. You don't seem to be suggesting any kind of sentient afterlife, merely the conservation of energy - or have I missed something?
Originally Posted by me
Of course, like any other single celled organism, there is a nucleus. That bit I can't explain, even vaguely. I can't explain how God made everything. Maybe He's been around for a very long time and is simply the acumulated energy of many, many previous life forces in many, many previous universes, gradually developing the sentient power to influence His environment. In honesty I can't even put my hand on my heart and declare that I truly believe He did create it all. But I can see no problem with evolutionists and creationists living side by side if you accept that when God created man in His own image he created a single celled creature. And that single cell creature divided (figuratively giving up that mythical rib) to create another. And we evolved from there. He may well have put the mechanisms in place to allow that evolution, but I still don't see a problem with being a believer in evolution and in God.
SB
17 March 2006, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
I am well aware you can believe in a god without it being associated with an organised religion and I explicitly removed that group at the start of my response. Where people believe in a god through a specific religion, then that has a very real effect on the way they live their life.
I didn't say the belief in god, I said if your actual god itself has no impact in your life.
Unless you're asking me if the daily direct influence that God has on, say, my daily commute (I don't need to use a bridge - He parts the Thames for me and I just drive through) then I'm afraid I don't understand your point.
SB
Last edited by Sbradley; 18 March 2006 at 12:12 PM.
18 March 2006, 11:20 AM
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I wonder why a thread about the existence of God generates so much of a response. Most of it comes from the non believers who bust a gut trying to justify themselves.
I sometimes wonder if they are really a little frightened of saying that He does not exist just in case they suddenly find out that He does-but too late.
It could be most inconvenient of course having to follow religious beliefs instead of just breezing through life without another thought.
Can't see what all the fuss is about anyway. We are all entitled to our own honest beliefs and why not respect that even if they are opposite to your own?
Olly,
There is not a single oxymoron in my previous post, look up the meaning of Fundamentalist. I was also comparing atheism to a religion in your case, not saying that it is one. And yes I do not disrespect your beliefs either. The post was intended to be mildy humorous anyway without being unpleasant. I think you took it too literally.
Les
I sometimes wonder if they are really a little frightened of saying that He does not exist just in case they suddenly find out that He does-but too late.
It could be most inconvenient of course having to follow religious beliefs instead of just breezing through life without another thought.
Can't see what all the fuss is about anyway. We are all entitled to our own honest beliefs and why not respect that even if they are opposite to your own?
Olly,
There is not a single oxymoron in my previous post, look up the meaning of Fundamentalist. I was also comparing atheism to a religion in your case, not saying that it is one. And yes I do not disrespect your beliefs either. The post was intended to be mildy humorous anyway without being unpleasant. I think you took it too literally.
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 18 March 2006 at 11:29 AM.
20 March 2006, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I sometimes wonder if they are really a little frightened of saying that He does not exist just in case they suddenly find out that He does-but too late.
20 March 2006, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
So my version of God is perfectly acceptable for you to believe in, then?
I mean, call him/her/it what you will - that's what other religions do so why shouldn't you - but it seems to me you're accepting that there *is* a God after all. You didn't set a frame of reference in the first place, after all...
20 March 2006, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
But the thread title is "There is no GOD..." not "The Church is a crock..." My argument is that the two are very distinct and different statements, but you keep blurring the line between them. And then saying you understand the difference before doing it again...
How is this different? Sorry - if I don't believe in God then there is no God in my life; conversely if I do believe then there is God in my life. So either I believe in which case God has an impact or I don't in which case the point is moot.
Unless you're asking me if the daily direct influence that God has on, say, my daily commute (I don't need to use a bridge - He parts the Thames for me and I just drive through) then I'm afraid I don't understand your point.
SB
SB
20 March 2006, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I wonder why a thread about the existence of God generates so much of a response. Most of it comes from the non believers who bust a gut trying to justify themselves.
I sometimes wonder if they are really a little frightened of saying that He does not exist just in case they suddenly find out that He does-but too late.
It could be most inconvenient of course having to follow religious beliefs instead of just breezing through life without another thought.
Can't see what all the fuss is about anyway. We are all entitled to our own honest beliefs and why not respect that even if they are opposite to your own?
Olly,
There is not a single oxymoron in my previous post, look up the meaning of Fundamentalist.
A belief in the infallibility, and literal interpretation, of a particular religion’s doctrine or holy books. When applied in Abrahamic sects, it can lead to extreme prejudice and violence due to the nature of the Bible. The Crusades, the Inquisition, and witch-burning were due to fundamentalist ideals.
And a few others:
Fundamentalism is the belief in absolute religious authority and the demand that this religious authority be legally enforced. Often, fundamentalism involves the willingness to do battle for one's faith. Fundamentalists make up only one part of any religion's followers, who usually fall along a wide spectrum of different interpretations, values and beliefs.
www.gsanetwork.org/justiceforall/definitions.htm
A term originally applied to conservative, Bible-centered Protestant Christians (many of whom now prefer to call themselves "evangelicals"), but more recently extended to apply to the religiously authoritarian of all sorts (including classical Christians, Jews, and Muslims) who interpret their scriptures literally and in general favor a strict adherence to certain traditional doctrines and practices.
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site...l/content2.asp
www.gsanetwork.org/justiceforall/definitions.htm
A term originally applied to conservative, Bible-centered Protestant Christians (many of whom now prefer to call themselves "evangelicals"), but more recently extended to apply to the religiously authoritarian of all sorts (including classical Christians, Jews, and Muslims) who interpret their scriptures literally and in general favor a strict adherence to certain traditional doctrines and practices.
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site...l/content2.asp
20 March 2006, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
The 2 are very distinct to you, but the majority of those that believe in a god, believe in one as defined by a given religion. This is a context that the wider audience are familiar with and until you tried to describe your god, it was the only reference point we had.
You're missing the other glaringly obvious option, you believe in a god, but there isn't one.
You choose an extreme example, but that's kind of the gist of it.
SB
20 March 2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
For someone who seems to pride himsef on accuracy to the point of being pedantic, though, surely it's a slightly double standard that you're adopting here?
But as you haven't yet defined existence, or even given any frames of reference, then it's still valid to say that if one believes in God the He does exist. I've had a stab at defining God, how about you define existence so we have some more guidelines?
Really? That's an pretty unlikely stance for an otherwise reasonably logical chap to take, I'd have thought. Be fascinated to hear you elaborate on that...
SB
SB
This is what I am trying to discover, if your god has an effect or an impact on you, in what way does it influence you or effect your life. If the simple answer is "it doesn't" then why carry the baggage.