AndyC

During the fuel crisis I found myself having to fill up with 95 RON fuel a couple of times (unmodified MY00), and there was a definite loss of torque and increase in NVH at very low revs compared to the SUL I normally use. Now that I'm back on 97 RON, do I need to do anything to the ECU to make it realise the improvement, or will it eventually learn about the better fuel? I've heard that the MY99-MY00 ECU is better than earlier models in this respect.

Maybe I should just treat it as an excuse to get the PPP after all. Can I try yours please Gary?

AndyMc

AndyC

I have tried 95 ron and 97 ron, with and with out ecu resets in between. The only difference I could tell was less noise and vibration when the engine labours below 2000 revs on 97 ron.(MY98)

I didn't notice any difference in performance and the peak/held boost was the same.
I do get 30 miles more to a tank full if I use 97 ron though.(270 with SUL and 240 with NUL).

Resetting the ECU (leaving the battery disconnected for an hour or so)had no effect on performance that I could tell but it did make the car smoother at low revs for a couple of days, but it soon returned to normal.

Given the extra miles I get on SUL there is no extra cost for using it .

Any body else get more miles on SUL?

Mike Wood
Hi
Do you know if the ECU goes through the same learning process as when it is first installed if you "reset" the ECU by disconnecting the battery or is it different in some way?

Also if I have interpreted your post correcty you have said that the ECU responds instantly to better fuel is this correct and is the same true of the earlier ECU's?.

Also does anybody know if one litre of SUL has more energy in it than one litre of NUL?

I am trying to work out why I get more miles from the same amount of SUL and why this change is instant.If it was because the ECU was responding to the fuel I would have thought I would have noticed a change in performance too.

Andy

Jonathan

Doc Jock

Ive read the thread a couple of times and am trying to see whos's taking the ****. Can only assume its me. One problem with the BBS is that certain people have exchanged emails, thoughts on other threads before. Met at meets etc. Others that then read the thread will think that people are taking the mickey, when in fact they are not in a nasty way.

My example would be I remember swapping emails with Sunil when he first bought a Scooby and was deliberating on PPP. Which I recomended. Now he has this monster car which most should be proud of. I also know Branco and Bob Rawle of BRD personally and have a lot of time for them. Its great to see Sunil spend so much with them, and for me
see a UK car taken to such an extreme. If I
was an accountant I'd certainly offer my
services for free in exchange for free goods.
My statement was VERY tongue in cheek and not serious.

Maybe Ive misinterpreted your email and shown my defensive qualities too soon, who knows ?

Jonathan

Rico

Well I think that post just about made it full circle.....after reading muchos info on the PPP recently I think I've concluded that it's circa 20% overpriced but what the hell Prodrive has got us by the b..s.My 20% OVERPRICED REMARK IS BASED ON ALTERATIVE KIT SAY 1250 QUID? +25% TO KEEP WARRANTY = CIRCA 1600 QUID...A MUCH MORE INTERSTING PROPOSITION. MIKE WOOD .....HAVE YOURSELF AND PRODRIVE GIVEN ANY CONSIDERATION TO REDUCING THE COST OF THE PPP IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHIFT MORE UNITS ? ( ESP WITH NEW MODEL COMING OUT)I THINK 2K TO A LOT OF US IS A LOT OF MONEY BUT SOMETHING NEARER 1500 WOULD SELL A SHED LOT MORE UNITS FOR YOU.ALSO I HAVE A REPLACEMENT BACK BOX ALREADY..I'M RATHER DISAPPOINTED THAT PRODRIVE WON'T SELL ME A PPP ( SANS BACKBOX) FOR 1600 PLUS POUNDS

SUNIL ..ARE YOU STILL SELLING YOUR PPP ?

ANYONE ..IS A 'DEP' A DOWNPIPE ?

Rico

I've asked this before but...is there anyone who would be willing to give me a short PASSENGER ride in a MY99 PPP car...I live in Edinburgh....

cheers
R

Steve_Yeowart

Sunilp that may be your opinion but I speak from experience on Northern Meet 2 My car RB5has a Scorpion exhaust B/B and C/P and a GGR air filter and I can assure you I was matching an MY99 PPP everystep of the way in fact at one point gaining every so slightly on it going onto the motorway.. and before you say anything the care I was following was being driven damned hard as well. So too put things in a nut shell £650 for equivalent if not better than the £2000 PPP OK maybe if you are particulary worried about your warranty but its a 15 minute job to return it to normal should any one from IM need to look? For a huge saving

Steve_Yeowart

Thats a CAR I was following not a CARE!!! My infamous spelling strikes again!!!

Mr Leigh

Jonathan, I never said peolple would agree on a fully breathing modified Scooby being faster than a PPP car!!

I think we all have our own veiws on this. I have driven a PPP car and felt little difference either way in terms of performance. I have yet to be beaten on the day 0-60 by an Sti, best time 5.37 worst time 5.8 over 8 runs. 13.598 over quarter mile and can read 154-8mph on the speedo, which I assume over reads.


On a seperate point, with full breathing mods my dealer is still covering warrenty and it sounds to my ears better than a std PPP car. Total cost including fitting 400 pounds.



[This message has been edited by Mr Leigh (edited 07 October 2000).]

Sam Elassar

HI Guys
one thing you all seem to be missing.

more boost = more power = faster car. IT IS VERY SIMPLE. unless you think you can argue the basic principles of car tuning. PPP runs more boost than the standard car so IT WILL HAVE TO BE FASTER. however every car is different so if you get one car it will be faster with PPP than without. it will also be faster with PPP than with air filter and back box ( Scooby sport or no Scooby sport ). and it will be fastest with PPP AND full exhaust system and air filter. that is all if applied to the same car.
you can't assess the power of a car by following the other car on the road or on a track. and also you can't compare cars of different ages and mileage on the clock. and even if both were the same age they would have probably been driven differently.
that is why sunilp has felt the difference because they were all applied to the same car, so if you are happy with your car's performance with a back box and holding the baby boost of 13psi that most UK impreza hold you would love the PPP which would allow you to hold 16psi ( i think ). Link is just a different story all together

sam
another happy custmor with link etc... and BRD.

DocJock

Jonathan

If I misinterpreted your post (as I obviously have) then please accept my apologies.
In mitigation I use lack of smilies as a (poor) excuse

DJ

sunilp

Come on guys, lets not go there.

Daz 4 - i went for the Magnex at the time as it has a built in resonator to keep noise levels down. I think the SS centre can now come with that option (Pete?) so nothing in it now.

Doc Jock - thanks for keeping things in check!
Jonathan gave me loads of advice when i was first thinking of my scooby and what to do to it and we have also met at rolling road days etc. His comment is entirely tongue in cheek so no worries there

I only put up credit where credit is due (and can also do the opposite quite well when its not due ), and to date, BRD and Steve J Lawson, , have NEVER let me down - i think its very important from a consumer angle to highlight this for the benefit of others. We also can see whose famous exhaust system i happily run from the spec sheet so i dont need to mention their name explcitly above anyhow.

Regards

Sunil

PS - I think the J in Steve J Lawson stands for "Johnson"

[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 08 October 2000).]

sunilp

Steve Yeowart, we can only go by our own experiences and i have never seen a filter and exhaust alone give the figures i quoted on a UK MY99. A UKMY99 with a PPP can quite happily keep up with a std STi5. Its also down to driver ability etc too (even in a straight line)

I dont really want to get into a VFM debatre about the PPP.

I'll agree to disagree (for once), but then again you also thought the the 7,500 mile service included an air filter change

Sunil

[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 08 October 2000).]

Steve_Yeowart

Agree or disagree where you like but as I didn't have the filter change done on mine due to having an induction kit!!! I was trying to remember what I had done on my previous car, So drop the smug winks!!"

THE SIMPLE FACT IS MY CAR WAS EQUAL TOO A PPP CAR OF THE SAME YEAR and you saying I'll agree to disagree this time does not change that fact!! I don't car what all your figures say I say it in practice!! SO I'll agree to disagree ok

Rider

Boy, don't you guys get het up? I've been running my MY99 on 95 RON since day one, with the occasional special treat of SUL (pay day). Yes, I notice a mild difference if I run SUL for a few weeks, but that's just to my wallet.
My Scooby uses more than enough juice in standard, unmodified form, and I'm more than happy with the performance. Except now I need new tyres. Oh, and maybe a diesel to drive during the week!

Jonathan

Steve

Using your logic that your car was the equal of a PPP car of the same year, and that some PPP cars have had the same pace of an STI of the same year. This would say your car is the same pace as an STI ?

What was pointed out earlier in this thread was how there can be a vast difference between cars of the same age. During the Rolling road test we have done just sitting in cars of the same age, mileage and mods leads to different boost presures. Ive seen UK cars hold 15psi and others only 13, 1 psi is approx 12bhp. Multiply that by 2 and the extra 24bhp is close to the gain of a PPP.

Ive owned 3 UK cars in std form a 98, 99RB5 and 00. My 99 was substanialy quicker than my 00. The other thing was when the 99 was fitted with a PPP the difference it made was way in excess of when I fitted new exhaust and Ram Induction kit to the 00.

Maybe ask Sunil to borrow his ECU and see the extra difference this makes.

Jonathan

Steve_Yeowart

I'm not denying what you are saying never got to try it against an STi, But on the day in question my RB5 with scorpion centre and backbox and GGR filter was equivalent to a MY99 PPP car, of course if I put sunil's ECU in mine it is going to gain from this as well as the mods already done so I would expect it to perform differently, but if I remember rightly there was a graph somewhere of an MY99 with the exact mods I had done putting out 253 or 256 bhp something like that. (Can't remember exact figures)

Whish I could get my hands on a relatively cheap PPP ecu as I would fit it and gain once again. Your argument almost says that if I had a PPP car then added my mods I would see no difference, in effect the more you mod the faster the damned thing should go !!!

MikeWood

Stef

The idea of doing the test was to establish the real gain from the package so it aws important that the car did not suufer during the test by abusing either the cluch or the gearbox. We managed to do at least 3 runs in both std and modified form without any clutch deterioration (we tested it returned to std after the test and there was no difference). In fact the car has now covered 60,000 miles on it's original clutch.

As you say, it's sometimes possible to get better figures in the wet, particularly on std tyres as you can get a little wheelspin 'off the line'. Once you have traction it doesn't matter if it's wet or dry.


Rico

A reduction in price by the order you suggest would mean that we would have to sell below cost. Not a long term strategy for success!! You could try talking to your dealer, he may be able to tempt you.
Please also remember that these parts have to be developed and that costs money. It's not as easy as saying all the components cost X so we should sell it at X + Y%

Regards

Mike

Stef

Mike.
Cheers.
I guess if both cars are being driven the same then it would make the comparitive figures fair in relation to each other.
My original clutch actually lasted nearly 50,000 miles which also negates the theory that I abused it. I now have an AP one.
Perhaps all your tests should be done in the wet?

Stef.

Stef

Mike.
What do you consider a 'repeatable manner'? Is the purpose of doing performance tests not to extract the absolute best from the car? I do not see how there can be a technique which anyone can consider a safe 'repeatable manner'. If you are getting a UK car to 60 in 5.5secs you are abusing it, period.
I admit I probably did more hard launches in my car than most, but not once did I ever rev it's nuts off and dump the clutch.
I have suffered one gearbox failure, but it was third gear that disintegrated. I presume therefore that it was not these hard launches that caused the problem, as I also know of several other cars that suffered the same fate, none of which were ever used as often as me at various 'test sites' .
Also, my best ever time of 4.5s was achieved in the wet, which I again presume would be less stressful on the transmission than in the dry?
Regards.

Stef.

MikeWood

Stef

I never did suggest you abused the clutch on your car!

Mike

Rico

Mike

I can't remember exactly what I asked initially...but I'm just saying I'm in the position of having a new (340 quid)back box ( non Prodrive...in fact hand made by a guy who specialises in this )This means that I'm rather reluctant to fork out the full 2k but would be happy to fork out 1600+ quid for the PPP without BB.Is there no way of catering for people in this position?

cheers

Rico

Jonathan

Buy the PPP. Get the Prodrive Backbox and sell it as new to someone else.

Jonathan

sunilp

Rico, wanna buy a PPP ecu?

Sunil

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Steve_Yeowart:
<B>Sunilp that may be your opinion but I speak from experience on Northern Meet 2 My car RB5has a Scorpion exhaust B/B and C/P and a GGR air filter and I can assure you I was matching an MY99 PPP everystep of the way in fact at one point gaining every so slightly on it going onto the motorway.. and before you say anything the care I was following was being driven damned hard as well. So too put things in a nut shell £650 for equivalent if not better than the £2000 PPP OK maybe if you are particulary worried about your warranty but its a 15 minute job to return it to normal should any one from IM need to look? For a huge saving[/quote]

Steve - was that me you were following on to the M62?....while I was talking on the phone to the late arriver from Warrington?? not so 'damned hard' - will let you have a 'go' now

MikeWood

Rico

This is a difficult situation and part of the reason why we have never previously supplied a rear silencer on it's own. We would get this situation all the time where customers already have a silencer fitted. As the whole package has been designed to run with our silencer, fitting a different one may have a negative effect and in extreme circumstances lead to engine damage (unlikely but possible)
Our agreement with Subaru UK is that we only fit the complete package so that the warranty remains intact. What you as the the customer chooses to fit afterwards is you choice but NO other silencer is approved within the terms of the warranty agreement.

This policy also helps protect you as a customer as it's should be immediately obvious that the car has a performance package fitted by the fact that it has a Prodrive rear silencer. The resale value is also protected as the car has been modified with approved parts and not just a collection of aftermarket accessories. Witness the reluctance of people to buy modified Cosworths whereas an Impreza with a PPP attracts a premium.

I know which I would prefer if it was my money!

Regards

Mike

sunilp

i'd buy a Cossie too Mike

Rico

Sunilp

Circa how much for your PPP ?
Warranty would still be in place presumably ? ( ignoring my backbox for the time being)
Can it be fitted by me ( non mechanic)?
cheers
r

sunilp

Rico, 1k for the ECU. Please dont offer any less as i dont need the cash and can keep it on the car for 1k extra trade in when i sell it

Dont know about warranty, ask your dealer or prodrive. I have asked Prodrive on here before but they have chosen to ignore the question, (maybe because there is nothing in it for them?)

Very easy to fit, plug and play.

Sunil

sasim

Since we are on the subject of PPP, can anyone tell me how I can find out if my MY96 has PPP upgrade.

When I bought it, in May this year, the description label on it said "Prodrive Upgrade". I could not ask the dealer as they had just folded and it was basically a free for all to get the car (3.5k less that ticket price).

Is there a way to tell for sure what is going on, bearing in mind that the exhaust, and other parts have probably been changed in the last 4 years.

SS
(Hoping I'm PPP'd)