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Old 11 November 2005, 12:35 PM
  #91  
Mungo
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I honestly can't understand people who are side-stepping the "official" (IM and their dealer network) route to save money with the likes of Motorpoint, but then want IM and its dealers to resolve their warranty claims.
IM is a company independent entirely of Subaru in Japan (Fuji Heavy Industries). Although they are currently the official importer of Subarus to the UK, they could lose that right to another company. Alternatively, FHI could well decide to establish its own UK subsidiary (like the larger manufacturers) to do the import work. IM is obviously going to do all it can within the law to protect its position and its right to supply new Subaru vehicles within the UK. Why on earth (unless FHI or EU laws tell them to) should IM have to act as the go-between to Liaco (or any other European importer) and dealers/owners with warranty claims?
As Motorpoint is the company making a profit out of these non-official imports, they should be the ones liaising between the dealers and their non-UK suppliers over warranty claims.
I'd be pretty sure that the UK dealers would be happy to fill their job-books with non-UK car warranty work, as long as they can be sure they'll get paid for it. If the warranty is from a non-UK importer, is there a proper process for them to claim?
What really lies at the foot of this whole mess is probably who actually ends up paying for warranty claims - the local importer or FHI. If it is the former, and they're supposed to pay for warranty claims out of their profits, then it's no wonder that IM aren't willing to do anything to help! If it's the latter, then you're still expecting IM to do administrative work that they may not get paid for by FHI. Again, why should IM feel in anyway inclined to do that?
Old 11 November 2005, 12:41 PM
  #92  
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As posted earlier.

Dealer informed me all cars (parrallel imports or UK) have to be registered with IM to be eligible for Warranty work in the UK.

He said he is not allowed to contact Subaru MT direct for warranty clearance on Maltese Subarus, he is bound by strict guidelines issued by IM.

As to why this is you tell me!!
Old 11 November 2005, 02:10 PM
  #93  
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No doubt in his franchise contract with IM as an "official" Subaru dealer, he is disqualified from performing warranty work without reference to IM. I'm pretty sure that official UK Subaru dealers have to get approval for ALL warranty work anyway - they can't just replace a gearbox and expect IM to cough up, even on a "proper" UK car. No doubt they have to go through the same channels for imports, and IM just isn't interested in supporting that.
Herein lies the problem for Motorpoint's customers, particularly if IM is allowed to behave like this. Sounds like Motorpoint will have to act as the liaison with Liaco, and underwrite the cost of warranty repairs, but who does the work? I'm assuming Liaco wants official Subaru dealers to do it, but IM won't let them.
Catch-22 anyone?!
Old 11 November 2005, 02:21 PM
  #94  
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If this route gets taken and Motorpoint/Alliance/whoever start dealing with the warranty stuff, the dealers can do the work and say nothing to IM as it will be (per IM) nothing to do with warranty work and more like a private repair.
Old 11 November 2005, 03:31 PM
  #95  
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Catch 22 indeed m8

AND

If say in 18 months I decide to trade in my pride and joy. Wheras before I could stoll in to the showroom and say with confidence I have 18 months left to run on my Manufacturers warranty.

Now I will have to slink in through the side door and have the Salesman look down his nose at me and say "Oh you are one of those are you" and knock two grand off the trade in price.

I believe IM are sending out placards to us, that you have to hang around your neck when entering Subaru premises, with the word "UNCLEAN" in big red letters.
Old 11 November 2005, 04:50 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Mungo
I honestly can't understand people who are side-stepping the "official" (IM and their dealer network) route to save money with the likes of Motorpoint, but then want IM and its dealers to resolve their warranty claims.
IM is a company independent entirely of Subaru in Japan (Fuji Heavy Industries). Although they are currently the official importer of Subarus to the UK, they could lose that right to another company. Alternatively, FHI could well decide to establish its own UK subsidiary (like the larger manufacturers) to do the import work. IM is obviously going to do all it can within the law to protect its position and its right to supply new Subaru vehicles within the UK. Why on earth (unless FHI or EU laws tell them to) should IM have to act as the go-between to Liaco (or any other European importer) and dealers/owners with warranty claims?
As Motorpoint is the company making a profit out of these non-official imports, they should be the ones liaising between the dealers and their non-UK suppliers over warranty claims.
I'd be pretty sure that the UK dealers would be happy to fill their job-books with non-UK car warranty work, as long as they can be sure they'll get paid for it. If the warranty is from a non-UK importer, is there a proper process for them to claim?
What really lies at the foot of this whole mess is probably who actually ends up paying for warranty claims - the local importer or FHI. If it is the former, and they're supposed to pay for warranty claims out of their profits, then it's no wonder that IM aren't willing to do anything to help! If it's the latter, then you're still expecting IM to do administrative work that they may not get paid for by FHI. Again, why should IM feel in anyway inclined to do that?
Just wondering what part of 5K you dont understand
Old 11 November 2005, 04:53 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by gubby
Catch 22 indeed m8

AND

If say in 18 months I decide to trade in my pride and joy. Wheras before I could stoll in to the showroom and say with confidence I have 18 months left to run on my Manufacturers warranty.

Now I will have to slink in through the side door and have the Salesman look down his nose at me and say "Oh you are one of those are you" and knock two grand off the trade in price.

I believe IM are sending out placards to us, that you have to hang around your neck when entering Subaru premises, with the word "UNCLEAN" in big red letters.
Ok knock 2K off trade price you would have saved 5K so RESULT you are 3K up
Old 11 November 2005, 05:13 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by donutman
surely you need to ask liaco if they use exclusive distribution or a selective distribution system then. As Im would not be able to tell another distributor which to use, and just because they use one way does not mean they can block warranty claims. If they also use the selective system then it might be a different matter
It is the manufacturer that selects which distribution model to use either selective or exclusive, so in this case it would be Japan who set the policy for all their distributors to follow so if Subaru Uk are using this model in effect all should be. Therefore Malta are acting illegally, that is if the information i got from Subaru Uk is correct.

There are still so many unanswered questions but Subaru Uk are taking it serious as i have been given details of their solicitors so that my legal aid can speak direct to them.

I just think if we all make it a big enough problem for Motorpoint and Subaru Uk we will force the issue and therefore force a solution to the problem sooner rather than later.
Old 11 November 2005, 05:14 PM
  #99  
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plus we all paid £600 for cat 1+ tracker + 100 underseal needed + 35 locking wheel nuts

so probably nearer £2k up. still nothing to be sniffed at.

Although i am considering forcing a refund and going for a new contract hire from subaru. i'd get MY06 for £850 deposit + £299 per month. (they didn't used to do contract hire on WRX's, now you can even do it on an STi!)

so total costs over 3 years (36*£299) = £10,764
(additional charges of 10p per mile if you go over 10,000 a year)

when you compare that to impreza depreciation over 3 years its probably about even, plus -

No hassle selling it at the end
you can buy it if you want
if the thing turns out to be a lemon/ engine blows up etc its their problem not yours trying to get it fixed under warranty.
cashflow advantage, no need to stump up a big deposit and end up paying interest on your loan, so i can stick my £8000 deposit into my flexible mortgage, and no interest to pay on the £9000 loan i have!- JOBS A GOOD'UN

any thoughts? (obviously you can't start modding it!)

Last edited by DonnieDarko; 11 November 2005 at 05:16 PM.
Old 11 November 2005, 07:51 PM
  #100  
tim's wrx
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Originally Posted by Silver Knight
Their is no problem with liaco selling cars to anybody in Europe and the warranty will still be valid.
The problem is with Motorpoint and the like selling them as new cars. This is something they are not authorised to do by Subaru so they are illegal imports and as such the warranty is not valid in the UK through the UK system.
The cars can be worked on if Malta are willing to pay but not many if any dealers would be willing to take the risk.
If the cars are sold as second hand or personally imported, no problem. But any commerical operation bringing them in from any european country will have the same problems.

IM in this country will not lose business by stopping thease imports but may even improve sales and profits which enable them to lower prices further (said tongue in cheek)
I’ve just joined up after reading messages about warranties on cars from Motorpoint and sourced from Liaco in Malta.

I purchased a WRX wagon from Motorpoint in January 2005 knowing that it was sourced from Malta. Fortunately I’ve not had any problems with the car, so I don’t know what sort of reception I would get from my local Subaru UK dealer. I suppose many other purchasers from Motorpoint will be in the same position as myself and are left wondering just what would happen if a warranty claim did arise. After all, a warranty is supposed to give peace of mind!

However, I have absolutely no problem with Motorpoint - the whole purchasing transaction was done very professionally and they stuck to their word on everything. The only thing which took longer than expected was obtaining the UK registration certificate from DVLA. Motorpoint said they had sent the paperwork to DVLA but DVLA said they hadn’t received it. However, this was eventually sorted out at no cost to me.

There have been a lot of messages about the legitimacy of Motorpoint selling “new” Subarus, unauthorised resellers, block exemption, selective distributors and lots of other EC jargon. However, the fact is that Motorpoint did not market the car as new - they said I would not be the first registered keeper. So in my book, whilst it only had 5 miles on the clock, it’s not legally a new car - I bought a second hand WRX wagon from Motorpoint and saved about £4,000.

Now to my main point, my 3 year warranty is directly with Liaco Limited (Subaru Malta), the company officially appointed by Fuji Heavy Industries as the distributor in Malta.

The terms of the warranty are quite explicit and go way beyond the minimum requirements of EC legislation. For example, it has European cross border application - it’s not even restricted to countries in the EC. So rather than getting hung up on trying to interpret complicated EC legislation, I’ll rely on the contractual commitment given by my chosen Subaru distributor who say that if the car needs warranty work, then I just need to go to my nearest Authorised Subaru Repairer who will guide me through the process and will not charge me for the repairs.

Now if the official Subaru UK distribution network is obstructing the operation of Europe wide warranties given by the official Malta distributor, then Fuji Heavy Industries Japan have to sort this. They need to issue a directive to their UK distribution network to facilitate the operation of the Europe wide warranty issued by the official Malta distributors. I don’t see the issue has anything to do with EC legislation at all - it’s a simple case of UK distribution network breaking the terms of its contract with Fuji Heavy Industries which requires it to participate in a European cross border warranty scheme, along with all other officially appointed European distributors.

Incidentally, I’ve just seen that Motorpoint are listing “new” 2006 WRX’s on their site. I say to everyone - Go and buy one and keep up the pressure on Subaru rip-off UK !

Old 11 November 2005, 09:09 PM
  #101  
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Isnt a pan European warranty only 2 years?

How are Motorpoint able to do 3 when Fuji only offer 2?

IM out of their own pocket support the third year. WHY WHY WHY would they want to honor a car bought in Malta?

Not heard ONE logical reason from someone that has bought from Motorpoint, but then again these people thought they knew best and are now coming unstuck.
Old 11 November 2005, 09:58 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Chins
Isnt a pan European warranty only 2 years?

How are Motorpoint able to do 3 when Fuji only offer 2?

IM out of their own pocket support the third year. WHY WHY WHY would they want to honor a car bought in Malta?

Not heard ONE logical reason from someone that has bought from Motorpoint, but then again these people thought they knew best and are now coming unstuck.
I can only relate my own experience of buying a Malta sourced WRX wagon from Motorpoint in Jan 2005. The car comes with a 3 year manufacturer's warranty directly from Liaco Limited the official Subaru distributor for Malta - the warranty isn't with Motorpoint. I can understand why Subaru UK wouldn't want to honour the warranty on a car bought from Malta so I think it's up to Fuji Heavy Industries to instruct Subaru UK network to start acting like its part of Europe rather than trying to wriggle out of its obligations on pan European warranties !
Old 11 November 2005, 10:34 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by tim's wrx
I can only relate my own experience of buying a Malta sourced WRX wagon from Motorpoint in Jan 2005. The car comes with a 3 year manufacturer's warranty directly from Liaco Limited the official Subaru distributor for Malta - the warranty isn't with Motorpoint. I can understand why Subaru UK wouldn't want to honour the warranty on a car bought from Malta so I think it's up to Fuji Heavy Industries to instruct Subaru UK network to start acting like its part of Europe rather than trying to wriggle out of its obligations on pan European warranties !
But a European is TWO years not three. Motorpoint seem to be misinformed and therefore taking owners in. Fuji could only ask IM to accept 2 years.

Who dreamed up three years - sounds like a Motorpoint pitch to get the gulible?
Old 11 November 2005, 11:03 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Chins
But a European is TWO years not three. Motorpoint seem to be misinformed and therefore taking owners in. Fuji could only ask IM to accept 2 years.

Who dreamed up three years - sounds like a Motorpoint pitch to get the gulible?
The Subaru pan european warranty is 3 years or 60,000 miles whichever is sooner. Don't forget IM import the cars with no warranty and apply thier own (pretty sure they are unique in Europe with this) as all other EU cars come with the original manufacturers warranty.
Old 12 November 2005, 09:08 AM
  #105  
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Not heard ONE logical reason from someone that has bought from Motorpoint, but then again these people thought they knew best and are now coming unstuck.
Who dreamed up three years - sounds like a Motorpoint pitch to get the gulible?
What's your problem..? I see it no differently than a man who goes to Makro say and buys a 42 inch Sony Plasma screen tv, sold with it's manufacturers warranty but pays maybe £700 less.. then a year down the line it goes wrong so he takes it to a approved Sony service point where they say.. " sorry chum, if you'd come to us and not saved yourself a few quid when you bought it, everything would be fine.. but as you didn't we're not going to repair it under warranty"..

You obviously are that man who never tries to get a good deal or save any money and buys the most expensive item everytime..
Old 12 November 2005, 09:40 AM
  #106  
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Just out of interest, would it be possible for someone to go on a day trip to France and get a Motorpoint sourced car repaired in a Suburu garage over there? I appreciate it could be a right pain for some people.

You could have a day away, buy cheap beer and get your car sorted in one go

Mind you, could could come back to a burnt out car I suppose
Old 12 November 2005, 10:26 AM
  #107  
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The euro legislation stated manufacturer have to provide a minimum two year euro warranty, if the mftr chooses to go for more then that is up to them, this is what FHI chose to do as I understand it, nothing to do with Motorpoint and what they suggest - they were accurate at the time. Still sounds to me like IM just want out of the process for cars they are not seeing revenue for. Why should they manage the process and fund people in their organisation for cars they have not sold.

Sounds like the answer at the moment is for Motorpoint to revert back to the pre-registering process they did (and may still do for some) in which case the car is no longer new and they are then authorised to sell and retain the full mftr warranty? Alternatively they need to act as an 'agent' to Subaru Malta and in effect provide a service to facilitate personal imports.

Won't stop me buying an import if I wanted, money still to be saved and even if that means going for an insurance warranty still cheaper
Old 12 November 2005, 11:32 AM
  #108  
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It is still being discussed as to what is a USED car.
Is a 1 mth old/100 miles car a used one or a way of sidestepping regulations?????
Bimta are fighting this at the moment.
Old 12 November 2005, 11:49 AM
  #109  
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Ok knock 2K off trade price you would have saved 5K so RESULT you are 3K up
Good point well made

Cheers m8, I feel a whole lot better now!

You are obviously a lot brighter than me.
Old 12 November 2005, 11:56 AM
  #110  
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It is still being discussed as to what is a USED car.
Is a 1 mth old/100 miles car a used one
I bought my car in September but it was registered in May (So effectively I lose 4 months of my three year warranty)

So I bought a Car with 15 Miles on the Clock that was 4 months old, I am the second owner on the V5 and it has 2 years and 8 months warranty.

You wouldn't class that as a new car, but it is not exactly used either is it?

I suppose you could call it pre owned. Would that do?
Old 12 November 2005, 12:18 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Chins
But a European is TWO years not three. Motorpoint seem to be misinformed and therefore taking owners in. Fuji could only ask IM to accept 2 years.

Who dreamed up three years - sounds like a Motorpoint pitch to get the gulible?
Looks like you are another pi$$ed of subaru main dealer customer that paid well over the odds for there new car
Old 12 November 2005, 12:25 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by tim's wrx
I’ve just joined up after reading messages about warranties on cars from Motorpoint and sourced from Liaco in Malta.

I purchased a WRX wagon from Motorpoint in January 2005 knowing that it was sourced from Malta. Fortunately I’ve not had any problems with the car, so I don’t know what sort of reception I would get from my local Subaru UK dealer. I suppose many other purchasers from Motorpoint will be in the same position as myself and are left wondering just what would happen if a warranty claim did arise. After all, a warranty is supposed to give peace of mind!

However, I have absolutely no problem with Motorpoint - the whole purchasing transaction was done very professionally and they stuck to their word on everything. The only thing which took longer than expected was obtaining the UK registration certificate from DVLA. Motorpoint said they had sent the paperwork to DVLA but DVLA said they hadn’t received it. However, this was eventually sorted out at no cost to me.

There have been a lot of messages about the legitimacy of Motorpoint selling “new” Subarus, unauthorised resellers, block exemption, selective distributors and lots of other EC jargon. However, the fact is that Motorpoint did not market the car as new - they said I would not be the first registered keeper. So in my book, whilst it only had 5 miles on the clock, it’s not legally a new car - I bought a second hand WRX wagon from Motorpoint and saved about £4,000.

Now to my main point, my 3 year warranty is directly with Liaco Limited (Subaru Malta), the company officially appointed by Fuji Heavy Industries as the distributor in Malta.

The terms of the warranty are quite explicit and go way beyond the minimum requirements of EC legislation. For example, it has European cross border application - it’s not even restricted to countries in the EC. So rather than getting hung up on trying to interpret complicated EC legislation, I’ll rely on the contractual commitment given by my chosen Subaru distributor who say that if the car needs warranty work, then I just need to go to my nearest Authorised Subaru Repairer who will guide me through the process and will not charge me for the repairs.

Now if the official Subaru UK distribution network is obstructing the operation of Europe wide warranties given by the official Malta distributor, then Fuji Heavy Industries Japan have to sort this. They need to issue a directive to their UK distribution network to facilitate the operation of the Europe wide warranty issued by the official Malta distributors. I don’t see the issue has anything to do with EC legislation at all - it’s a simple case of UK distribution network breaking the terms of its contract with Fuji Heavy Industries which requires it to participate in a European cross border warranty scheme, along with all other officially appointed European distributors.

Incidentally, I’ve just seen that Motorpoint are listing “new” 2006 WRX’s on their site. I say to everyone - Go and buy one and keep up the pressure on Subaru rip-off UK !

JUst had a look at there website too how cheap are they.......2.5 wrx £16999

2.5 sti £21999 that is just unreal ............... I know where I will buy my next one from incidently its the same place I bought my last 2 from whats the point
Old 12 November 2005, 01:27 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Chins
But a European is TWO years not three. Motorpoint seem to be misinformed and therefore taking owners in. Fuji could only ask IM to accept 2 years.

Who dreamed up three years - sounds like a Motorpoint pitch to get the gulible?
Old 12 November 2005, 02:13 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by carnutter
Just wondering what part of 5K you dont understand
Carnutter. Just wonder which part of breaking EU law you don't understand.(Which incidentally can lead to companies being fined 25% of annual profit. Ask Volkswagen they will tell you).
Old 12 November 2005, 02:18 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by tim's wrx
"... I can understand why Subaru UK wouldn't want to honour the warranty on a car bought from Malta so I think it's up to Fuji Heavy Industries to instruct Subaru UK network to start acting like its part of Europe rather than trying to wriggle out of its obligations on pan European warranties !
I think you will find it is up to Subaru Japan to tell Malta etc to stop selling cars unlawfully. If IM are trying to wriggle then why are there are so many people who have posted on here in the past that have cars from Malta, Cyprus, Holland, Belgium etc thet have Pan European warranty administered by IM.
Old 12 November 2005, 02:19 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Silver Knight
It is still being discussed as to what is a USED car.
Is a 1 mth old/100 miles car a used one or a way of sidestepping regulations?????
Bimta are fighting this at the moment.
BIMTA are fighting in relation to Grey imports from Thailand. Not unlawfull imports from Europe.
Old 12 November 2005, 02:32 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by firewire
Carnutter. Just wonder which part of breaking EU law you don't understand.(Which incidentally can lead to companies being fined 25% of annual profit. Ask Volkswagen they will tell you).
Breaking what law looks to me like you have a few wires crossed there is no law stopping people bringing European Imported Vehicles into the UK be that a company or private person
Old 12 November 2005, 03:16 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by carnutter
Breaking what law looks to me like you have a few wires crossed there is no law stopping people bringing European Imported Vehicles into the UK be that a company or private person


maybe Subaru UK will get a big fine like VW for breaking EU law by introducing anti competitive practices in an effort to stop punters like you and me getting the best deal !!
Old 12 November 2005, 03:20 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by tim's wrx


maybe Subaru UK will get a big fine like VW for breaking EU law by introducing anti competitive practices in an effort to stop punters like you and me getting the best deal !!
About time someone that sees sence in all of this
Old 12 November 2005, 04:20 PM
  #120  
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Exactly..


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