Bajie

I thought BMW were dropping their prices.
So do you buy an M3 for 46k or an M5 for 52k.
[Which puts you back in UK Skyline territory]
M5 seats are leather but horrid to sit in, well you sit on them actually. They don't hug you at all. Strange that.
There are also big differences in the 0-60 times from as little as 4.8secs to over half a second slower.

Jonathan

Why do people insist that the P1 WR would cost 37k. By the time the owner has sold the other bits its more like £34.5k. Still a lot of money I know.

Ive got my M3 on order to replace the P1 next May. The new Scooby is so ugly underpowered etc etc etc, that I couldnt at the moment be seen in one. Ive no doubt that in two years it will be sorted and there will be a desirable version.

I financed the P1 for a year only knowing my tendancy to change cars. Couldnt see any other car to change to other than the M3. 340 odd bhp, rear wheel drive sound like too much fun and IMHO is looks the dogs.

As regards performance the new M3 is 4.8 to 60 which is fairly similar to the Scooby. After that it waves goodbye. Its hitting 100 in 11.2 secs.

Jonathan

List price according to the BMW press release Ive been shown by my dealer is £38,500 including a very comprehensive spec :- Leather, Xenons, Electric Seats etc.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited 26 September 2000).]

KevMac

I think some people have misunderstood what my original question was:

Basically it’s this: We all love Scoobies and pound for pound there is no other performance car like the standard Impreza...but why would anyone buy a P1 WR when for a couple of grand more they could get the very powerful and beautufully made outside and especially inside M3?

Geezer

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kurtw:
<B>As they say, "BMW's - built by germans, driven by tossers"

The BMW could be 25k, I'd still buy the scooby.

In a scooby, people give way to you at junctions. In a BMW they think "Sod Ya!"[/quote]

Er, who's they? Not all BMW drivers are tossers, just a fair proportion of them. I have to say I've seen a fair number of tossers in Scoobs as well, and volvos, Fords, Jags etc. etc repeat to fade....

What if th BMW was £13k, would you still buy the Scooby? If image is that important you, albeit a negative one, then perhaps you should buy a BMW.

Geezer

Jonathan

The original question is flawed as the new M3 is not avaible untill at least Feb/Mar next year, so people buying a P1 could never of got an M3 at the time. Also as has been pointed out there really is no WR model, its just the full collection of Prodrive add ons. You dont get a certificate to indicate a WR. Ive got a P1 at the moment with the brake upgrade and SS exhaust. The 18" wheels will be fitted in a week or so.

The cost assuming I could of done it from new would of been around £33,500. If I'd done the seats and lamps that would of risen to £35k max. Remember dealers will give discount on the extras. My M3 will no doubt cost just over £40k after adding the 19" wheels and a couple of other extras.

So for the comparision to be fair the difference is more like £5-6k. That might be too much money for some who would already be stretched. One extra you dont get with M3 is SIDC/Scoobynet etc. We do have a community that adds an extra dimension. The P1 also get nods and thumbs up from a lot of the young lads (not sure if thats good or bad, but it does bring a smile to your face somedays, as long as your not parking nearby)
Rally fans also might like owning a car similar to the cars they follow on the World Rally.

Yes if you were buying a car based on performance, looks (subjective), interior and in Simon de Banks terms purer driving experience then there is no contest.
Its only when you are Scoobyless that you realise what you are missing. Ive done once and hated it each time I saw another Scooby. Will it feel the same when I'm at the wheel of the M3 ? Maybe I'll let you know when I have a P2/3/4 etc on the drive.

Jonathan

kurtw

Mmmmm...

Where's my Hyundai brochure. They're about 13k aren't they.

Steve_Yeowart

Not that I'm condoning this or that I'm a boy racer or anything but I have beaten an M3 in a traffic light Grand Prix (yeah sad I know but he was sat there revving his engine and creeping!!) I imagine it would have been a different story towards the top end though...but based on this I imagine the P1 should win hands done IF performance was all you were after. ( Build quality no contest , does anyone know if an M3 interior will fit into an MY99?)

kurtw

Geezer - Sorry If I've upset you. Obvioulsy not all BMW drivers are tossers, only the ones who make it plain to see by driving like plonkers.

Don't know where your analysis of the "image" thing has come from though.

I've had a BMW, so I talk from experience.

I've had my P1 two weeks now and the ownership experience is a much more enjoyable one. I like the scoob, because it is special.

Drive from one side of London to the other one day. On one hand, count all the P1's you see. On the other hand, cound all the M3's you see. Bring some chums along so they can "lend a hand" with the M3 counting.

Geezer

Kurt,
You haven't upset me, that's what the smilie and the wink are for!

Anyway, the image thing was meant to say that you wouldn't buy a BMW because of the image of BMW drivers, which means that you are obviously concerned about image, so therefore you are hugely suited to BMW ownership!

No? I'll get me coat then..............

Geezer

P.S. I was a BMW owner too, and now I'm a Scooby owner, so I'll leave you to your own conclusions. No comments blubs and Maxwell please!!!!

Gary Foster

I don't know what you're all on about.

I had an old (old old) 325i Sport (original shape one) and it was bleeding cracking. I loved it - real hooligans car, with a nice smooth 6 cylinder engine, great handling and RWD.

Way better driving experience than my Scoob. The Scooby is *way* grippier and understeers like a pram. wouldn't say it handles better at all.

Surely an M3 would be even better

Gary (wishing he could still have power on oversteer )

mphnw11

There seem to be lots of prices around for the M3 on this thread, Jay quoted £34,500 and a later quote was 100k DEM, which I assume is around £33k. Anywhere specifically where people are getting these quotes from as I am in the market for a new car next year and I intend test driving the M3 to see what it's like

Feel free to email me direct

Ta

AWD

What are the earliest delivery dates for the new M3? I assume it is quicker to get them from Europe.

Bajie

End of year/beginning of next year.
Exact specification not known.
Extra's not priced.
34,900 OTR.

AWD

Bajie - who is doing that offer?

Craig H

Wouldn't swap my Sti for it but I'd have it as a 2nd car. Looks beautiful.

Good thing about it is the bonnet, wings etc are a fair bit different to the regular ones, so there will be no "is it, isn't it" confusion between a pukka M3 and a bodykitted 316/318/320/328 etc.

Andrew O'Hara

Jay,

Where did you get the £34,500 quote from? Is that a UK car or a UK spec import, because I've had a quote from Frankfurt for approximately DEM 100,000. Can you let me know.

Thanks.

AWD

One thing that made me laugh was an ad in AutoTrader a couple of years ago. Bright red M3 replica with all the ***** and whistles on to make it look like an M3. But what was underneath ? A 316, and a 316 auto at that.

Some people buy M3s to pose in and that is a shame as they are very nice cars to drive.

I am not getting into the "Subarus are great, BMWs are crap and all who driver them are morons" type talking as that is just over-generalising rubbish.

I'd love a new M3. It sounds like it handles extremely well, and it looks pretty good too. Would I get one for £45,000. No - that is way too much money. I'd rather get something like a second hand Porsche 911 (996) Carrera 4 in a year or two - or a 911 (993) turbo - again in a year or two when they drop in price.

Don't get me wrong. I like the M3. I have one now. Admittedly when I bought it I was was warned by the dealer that people would try to race me, people would nick my mirrors and that the police would watch me much more closely. None of these seem to have happened - well apart from the occasional moron who revs his engine to want to race at the lights. It is a different type of car to the Scooby. It is much heavier and has more power than the standard Scooby. One thing that I do prefer in the Scooby is the 4WD, even in standard form when it rains I prefer driving the Scooby.

For £30,000 (from Europe) I'd definitely consider the new M3 though.

Andrew O'Hara

AWD,

I agree with you, but after owning two M3's E30 M3 Evo and an E36 M3 Evo I fancied a change and bought a P1. The E36 was a disappointment, albeit it had bags of torque and was very quick in a straight line it wasn't and will never be the drivers car the E30 was.
The P1 is not run in yet, so I can't compare the two or three. I think that my next car will probably be the E46 M3, but from Germany and not from any UK dealer, especially after the experiences I've had with their shark like salesmen.

dumpsonscoobs

I agree with craig about the anti copy bodywork - lets hope it works!
Martin

Bajie

Allegedly, BMW will not sell 'M' parts for anything other than the M3.
Time will tell.
The general opinion of those who have driven the car is that BMW have tried [and succeeded?] in recapturing the ethos of the original 4pot M3.
I bought a car in Germany and went to many showrooms. They don't seem to be bothered who buys the cars as long as they don't stay in the showrooms. A good thing in my opinion.

Scott J Davies

Hang On Hang On.

There is a car that no one has mentioned yet that has the build quality of the Bob Marley and the driving thrills of the Scoob, plus would kick both there Asses on the Track.

The Skyline R34 GTR non V Spec.

I need say nothing about its abilities or heritage. You can get a non V Spec second hand for well under 37K, spend a further 3 - 4 K on the engine etc then you can go Ferrari worrying.

Gents, especially the ones that are looking to buy an M3 next look again at the Skyline they are the way forward.

I shall be purchasing this March as a B day presy to myself. Harj its me and you kid.

Bajie

Unfortunately I just know I'd spend more than 3-4k on a Skyline if I bought one. And at the moment we are talking about warranteed additions. Do you know how much Middlehurst will charge to take a Skyline to 500bhp.
The only thing I would add to the BM is the 19" alloys and titanium interior.
Skyline, well the Sky's the limit.
And the R35 will be a naturally aspirated V8 [allegedly].

Scott J Davies

You can get a warranty on a used Jap Imoprt, ok its not a uk warranty.

But the difference being is that you get a car that is in a differnt league to the M3 and the P1.

Bajie

I didn't mean to shoot you down, sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I adore Skylines, I really do.
But, for good or bad, I'm a poser.
This means leather, 500bhp, and a Veilside bodykit would be in my mind as soon as I bought the Skyline [drove the 300 miles to Middlehurst to look at one coz it had a tv!]
The Skyline is the best option, 4WD and 185mph ... argument done!

AWD

BMW state that they do not sell M parts to anyone without a valid M chassis number. However, there are many breakers around and also a large number of non BMW clone part manufacturers - e.g. for the M3 mirrors.

The new E46 M3 will have one part which will be hard to clone. 4 exhaust pipes. This should put off all but the most extreme copier (and if they do it will cost them a fair amount of cash to emulate this effect).

If you're comparing prices 'like for like' you have to compare the European import M3 (at around £30,000) to the Japanese imported non GTR Skyline R34. Otherwise you should compare the UK spec M3 at £38,500 with the UK Spec GTR at £53,000.

What are the differences between the non GTR R34 Skyline and the R34 GTR?

Scott J Davies

No Worries B.

No what you are saying I have just read about the Option Motorsport Skyline in Jap Performance, 600 BHP on 1.2 bar and a flick switch to take you momenatarily up to 830 Bhp . They reckon it will last as long as a normal Skyline due to all the internal mods.

OOOOooohhhhh I want one it must cost a wedge though

Scott J Davies

AWD

I was referring to the V Spec and the Non V spec. The official UK car is a V spec. The difference is harder suspension and the belly diffuser.

Regardless of new or old uk warranty or after market warranty. £38 k is still £38k and I for one would be looking at all options. And I feel that the R34 non V spec is to difficult to ignore when spending that sort of wedge.

If you talking importing you could import one your self direct with a few Nismo options for £30k ish.

AWD

I've always fancied a Skyline.. ever since I heard of them many years ago....

Insurance must be pretty horrendous on the modified ones though.

Bajie

My insurance company is aware of all the modifications to my car and it hasn't affected the policy at all.
If you buy something like the Skyline or a standard [?] Scooby, you should let them know your intentions before you commit to the policy. We all know the kind of mods that can be done. And, ultimately, so do they.

Bajie

I'll tell you when mines been delivered!

But condsidering they advertise on Scoobynet
[tell them you saw it here] here is there website :