Why do you frown at dump valves?
17 October 2005, 06:52 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by frayz
GENUINE QUESTION!!!
Ive read through countless DV threads and cannot come to a propper conclusion.
I have an 02 sti of which will be remapped soon. I would actually like to fit an HKS SSQ VTA. If fitting a VTA make the car jerky will this be recified by mapping?
Also ive heard that induction kits kill MAF sensors?
Will mapping make these mods safe? or am i better sticking with a green panel filter?
I would much rather the chatter of an induction kit like i had on my cossie but if this is going to screw my MAF then i wont get one. Hence the interest in a HKS VTA as my gearchanges are currently boring to listen to
Please only constructive replys to this, thank you
Ive read through countless DV threads and cannot come to a propper conclusion.
I have an 02 sti of which will be remapped soon. I would actually like to fit an HKS SSQ VTA. If fitting a VTA make the car jerky will this be recified by mapping?
Also ive heard that induction kits kill MAF sensors?
Will mapping make these mods safe? or am i better sticking with a green panel filter?
I would much rather the chatter of an induction kit like i had on my cossie but if this is going to screw my MAF then i wont get one. Hence the interest in a HKS VTA as my gearchanges are currently boring to listen to
Please only constructive replys to this, thank you
So the engine will maybe hesitate after the SSQV vents to atmosphere, but otherwise should not be jerky. Remapping will make no difference to this effect as you are doing something the ECU knows nothing about.
I have to say that when I first bought my car I loved the whoosh sound, but I've tired of it. It's not a performance mod, if anything it will adversely affect the performance. But if you are happy with that to make the car sound more interesting, go for it.
PM me if interested in buying my SSQV
17 October 2005, 08:18 AM
#92
It's not a performance mod, if anything it will adversely affect the performance. But if you are happy with that to make the car sound more interesting, go for it.
Let's leave Suabru out of it then: they are constricted by costs, emission regs etc etc.
But Prodrive? Why don't prodrive use a vta valve, even on the rally cars? If it's a performance mod, then why not? Surely, if it WAS a perfotrmance mod, they would, as any extra bhp you can squeeze from a car is worth it, in WRC terms, but no.........they don't
As for posts telling people to get one for a Scoob, because they had one on a series 1 RS Turbo, and it's still going strong................PLEASE!!!!
The RS Turbo engine is a little different to the Scoob engine, you'd agree? Not QUITE as powerful an ecu? Not so modern?
The Scoob ecu meters lots of stuff, one thing being the airflow. Once you mess with the airflow, you're messing with the engine.
If you fit as vta valve to a Scoob, your car will meter the airflow, and fuel for it. You then dump part of the air, but the car CAN'T adjust the fuelling, it comes in AFTER the dumpvalve. So you get a rich mixture. Excess fuel will either wash down the bores, removing oil, or it could pass into your cats or exhaust, exploding there and causing damage.
Saying that an RS turbo had one and was OK is rather like saying "this car I used to have, ran on diesel, and was OK, so I'll put diesel in my scoob: it'll be OK too"
A bit extreme, but you get my drift? NOT all cars are the same. What's good for one could wreck another. READ advice, and LISTEN to it.
I'm not going to bother posting on this thread any more. It seems to be filled with folk who either KNOW,
, those who haven't really read a thing others have written and just keep saying "yeah, but, no, but......get one they're OK, cool etc, and those who muddy the waters by referring to other cars.
The bottom line is: it's YOUR car, paid for generally with YOUR hard-earned cash. Of course you can put EXACTLY what you like on it, and to hell with everyone else. I just hope you don't post on here in 6 months asking what to do about engine repairs, or slagging off Scoobs for being unreliable.
Oh, and for the record: I'd not even think about doing my own oil changes, pre-oiled or not
The car goes to a reputable garage who do it for me for the price of the oil and the filter. HOW they do it is up to them: they are the professionals, I'm not. The difference being, when I'm given advice by professionals, I LISTEN.Alcazar
17 October 2005, 10:02 AM
#93
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Which is exactly what I've been saying.
Let's leave Suabru out of it then: they are constricted by costs, emission regs etc etc.
But Prodrive? Why don't prodrive use a vta valve, even on the rally cars? If it's a performance mod, then why not? Surely, if it WAS a perfotrmance mod, they would, as any extra bhp you can squeeze from a car is worth it, in WRC terms, but no.........they don't
As for posts telling people to get one for a Scoob, because they had one on a series 1 RS Turbo, and it's still going strong................PLEASE!!!!
The RS Turbo engine is a little different to the Scoob engine, you'd agree? Not QUITE as powerful an ecu? Not so modern?
The Scoob ecu meters lots of stuff, one thing being the airflow. Once you mess with the airflow, you're messing with the engine.
If you fit as vta valve to a Scoob, your car will meter the airflow, and fuel for it. You then dump part of the air, but the car CAN'T adjust the fuelling, it comes in AFTER the dumpvalve. So you get a rich mixture. Excess fuel will either wash down the bores, removing oil, or it could pass into your cats or exhaust, exploding there and causing damage.
Saying that an RS turbo had one and was OK is rather like saying "this car I used to have, ran on diesel, and was OK, so I'll put diesel in my scoob: it'll be OK too"
A bit extreme, but you get my drift? NOT all cars are the same. What's good for one could wreck another. READ advice, and LISTEN to it.
I'm not going to bother posting on this thread any more. It seems to be filled with folk who either KNOW,, those who haven't really read a thing others have written and just keep saying "yeah, but, no, but......get one they're OK, cool etc, and those who muddy the waters by referring to other cars.
The bottom line is: it's YOUR car, paid for generally with YOUR hard-earned cash. Of course you can put EXACTLY what you like on it, and to hell with everyone else. I just hope you don't post on here in 6 months asking what to do about engine repairs, or slagging off Scoobs for being unreliable.
Oh, and for the record: I'd not even think about doing my own oil changes, pre-oiled or not The car goes to a reputable garage who do it for me for the price of the oil and the filter. HOW they do it is up to them: they are the professionals, I'm not. The difference being, when I'm given advice by professionals, I LISTEN.
Alcazar
Let's leave Suabru out of it then: they are constricted by costs, emission regs etc etc.
But Prodrive? Why don't prodrive use a vta valve, even on the rally cars? If it's a performance mod, then why not? Surely, if it WAS a perfotrmance mod, they would, as any extra bhp you can squeeze from a car is worth it, in WRC terms, but no.........they don't
As for posts telling people to get one for a Scoob, because they had one on a series 1 RS Turbo, and it's still going strong................PLEASE!!!!
The RS Turbo engine is a little different to the Scoob engine, you'd agree? Not QUITE as powerful an ecu? Not so modern?
The Scoob ecu meters lots of stuff, one thing being the airflow. Once you mess with the airflow, you're messing with the engine.
If you fit as vta valve to a Scoob, your car will meter the airflow, and fuel for it. You then dump part of the air, but the car CAN'T adjust the fuelling, it comes in AFTER the dumpvalve. So you get a rich mixture. Excess fuel will either wash down the bores, removing oil, or it could pass into your cats or exhaust, exploding there and causing damage.
Saying that an RS turbo had one and was OK is rather like saying "this car I used to have, ran on diesel, and was OK, so I'll put diesel in my scoob: it'll be OK too"
A bit extreme, but you get my drift? NOT all cars are the same. What's good for one could wreck another. READ advice, and LISTEN to it.
I'm not going to bother posting on this thread any more. It seems to be filled with folk who either KNOW,
, those who haven't really read a thing others have written and just keep saying "yeah, but, no, but......get one they're OK, cool etc, and those who muddy the waters by referring to other cars.The bottom line is: it's YOUR car, paid for generally with YOUR hard-earned cash. Of course you can put EXACTLY what you like on it, and to hell with everyone else. I just hope you don't post on here in 6 months asking what to do about engine repairs, or slagging off Scoobs for being unreliable.
Oh, and for the record: I'd not even think about doing my own oil changes, pre-oiled or not
The car goes to a reputable garage who do it for me for the price of the oil and the filter. HOW they do it is up to them: they are the professionals, I'm not. The difference being, when I'm given advice by professionals, I LISTEN.Alcazar
I.ll tell you something, you talk quite alot of sense mate, just been reading ure posts on this thread and you speak wise words my friend.
17 October 2005, 12:41 PM
#94
Originally Posted by leonpoole
Personally i dont think dumpvalves do that much damage.
My old C reg series 1 rs had one on for over 10 years and is still going strong.
No doubt ill get people saying the usual modern day engine thing
My old C reg series 1 rs had one on for over 10 years and is still going strong.
No doubt ill get people saying the usual modern day engine thing
RS turbos and cossies work fine with them...different ECU system. (MAP based rather than MAF )
(except for EECIV T25 Escort Cossies - a VTA DV messes them up too
)
Last edited by ALi-B; 17 October 2005 at 12:44 PM.
17 October 2005, 01:19 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Oh, and for the record: I'd not even think about doing my own oil changes, Alcazar
For those of us who did our training with a spanner in one hand and a hammer in the other would not wish anyone else to do such a simple job for us!
Dump valves are for kids .......... btw!!
Pete
17 October 2005, 02:09 PM
#98
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I too have the hks ssqv. Love the little chirp and everything ran fine with it, after the car had hks fcon ecu it appeared to vent differently than before hand. as in to say now it doesn't vent at lower revs when before it would. also i did experience some jerking between gears prior to hks ecu, however now its ultra smooth.
17 October 2005, 03:04 PM
#99
\m/ ^_^ \m/
Originally Posted by RedFive
So you removed yours then ?
19 October 2005, 01:11 PM
#102
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Thanks,
ive just got back late to work, after lunch ...reading this thread..
More, more..!!!
Seriously tho .... after all the posts on SN, about vta's, there does appear to be some technical reasons to stick with recirc. I personally like the sound of the VTA, but ive reverted back to my oem recirc. ive noticed no difference whatsoever.
Like has been said, each to their own .......
And as for the chav remarks ....... BORING..!!
Like someone has said, the outside world see's us scoob owners as chav ....... time to sell up.!!
What car should i buy, so as not to be classed as a chav..??
53'000 people die in earthquake, 1000's lose their homes in a hurricane induced flood, and we argue about ........
wait for it ...
dump valves, and whether theyre chav or not...!!
Innit ..""
ive just got back late to work, after lunch ...reading this thread..
More, more..!!!
Seriously tho .... after all the posts on SN, about vta's, there does appear to be some technical reasons to stick with recirc. I personally like the sound of the VTA, but ive reverted back to my oem recirc. ive noticed no difference whatsoever.
Like has been said, each to their own .......
And as for the chav remarks ....... BORING..!!
Like someone has said, the outside world see's us scoob owners as chav ....... time to sell up.!!
What car should i buy, so as not to be classed as a chav..??
53'000 people die in earthquake, 1000's lose their homes in a hurricane induced flood, and we argue about ........
wait for it ...
dump valves, and whether theyre chav or not...!!
Innit ..""
19 October 2005, 02:21 PM
#103
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just to throw a spanner into the works of this thread, a dumpvalve of any kind costs you performance in order to protect your turbo from and onslaught of high pressure air travelling i the wrong flow direction.
If you want some real noises, and for it to sound like a rally car, then remove the dump valve all together, and block up the main pipes leading to it. It will sound a lot better and is cheaper.
The only down side is that the lame **** standard fit turbos won't last as long as they would otherwise.
Webmaster SDB can confirm this having extensively driven my car sans DV.
If you want some real noises, and for it to sound like a rally car, then remove the dump valve all together, and block up the main pipes leading to it. It will sound a lot better and is cheaper.
The only down side is that the lame **** standard fit turbos won't last as long as they would otherwise.
Webmaster SDB can confirm this having extensively driven my car sans DV.
19 October 2005, 05:45 PM
#104
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Actually if you have an ECU that makes use of a MAP sensor as opposed to the MAF sensor then having an atmospheric dump valve instead of a recirculating dump valve is a very good idea. This is down to the recirculating dump valve passing the same air back down into the intake etc etc. On the recirculation, this air will always be slightly warmer as when compressed by the turbo its heat is greatly increased. Obviously, when it passes through the intercooler the air temperature is lowered marginally but not to the same point when it originally entered the intake. The offshoot being that on the recirculation the air is slightly warmer due to its offset = less dense = less bang in the same instance of volumetric air.
So not only do atmospheric DV's sound great, they are also a better investment than their recirculating DV counterparts.
So not only do atmospheric DV's sound great, they are also a better investment than their recirculating DV counterparts.
19 October 2005, 06:58 PM
#105
Originally Posted by globalgb
Actually if you have an ECU that makes use of a MAP sensor as opposed to the MAF sensor then having an atmospheric dump valve instead of a recirculating dump valve is a very good idea. This is down to the recirculating dump valve passing the same air back down into the intake etc etc. On the recirculation, this air will always be slightly warmer as when compressed by the turbo its heat is greatly increased. Obviously, when it passes through the intercooler the air temperature is lowered marginally but not to the same point when it originally entered the intake. The offshoot being that on the recirculation the air is slightly warmer due to its offset = less dense = less bang in the same instance of volumetric air.
So not only do atmospheric DV's sound great, they are also a better investment than their recirculating DV counterparts.
So not only do atmospheric DV's sound great, they are also a better investment than their recirculating DV counterparts.
Wasn't going to post again, but I just had to agree..........but folk, please read the first line carefully. Scoobs DO NOT have the MAP sensor, the have a MAF sensor, so the above doesn't apply
Alcazar
19 October 2005, 07:00 PM
#106
Originally Posted by alcazar
Actually if you have an ECU that makes use of a MAP sensor as opposed to the MAF sensor
Wasn't going to post again, but I just had to agree..........but folk, please read the first line carefully. Scoobs DO NOT have the MAP sensor, the have a MAF sensor, so the above doesn't apply
Alcazar
Wasn't going to post again, but I just had to agree..........but folk, please read the first line carefully. Scoobs DO NOT have the MAP sensor, the have a MAF sensor, so the above doesn't apply
Alcazar
As I mentioned earlier if anyone can be arsed to read page 5 of this thread
BTW Alc..be prepared for some smartarse to say a scoob also has a MAP sensor (but only for boost level control and furl cut, nothing else. So what you say is still correct
). oops shot myself in the foot there
Last edited by ALi-B; 19 October 2005 at 07:06 PM.
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