MY99 vs Prodrive
22 September 2000, 02:59 PM
#32
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Ro, I find your comments about our products offensive, particularly when so many of our customers have posted positive replies.
In our experience a PPP equipped car is actually quicker than a 280ps Japanese spec car in most driving circumstances as it has much more progressive torque delivery charcteristics, especially below 4000 rpm where the STi is particularly lacking. There is not the same power delivery above 6000rpm but how often do most people exploit this in the course of there normal driving.
If your final judgement of a cars speed is based on how fast it is around a race circuit, then I have yet to find ANY Impreza that is significantly faster than our demonstrator.
Mike
[This message has been edited by MikeWood (edited 22 September 2000).]
In our experience a PPP equipped car is actually quicker than a 280ps Japanese spec car in most driving circumstances as it has much more progressive torque delivery charcteristics, especially below 4000 rpm where the STi is particularly lacking. There is not the same power delivery above 6000rpm but how often do most people exploit this in the course of there normal driving.
If your final judgement of a cars speed is based on how fast it is around a race circuit, then I have yet to find ANY Impreza that is significantly faster than our demonstrator.
Mike
[This message has been edited by MikeWood (edited 22 September 2000).]
22 September 2000, 03:14 PM
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Mike
Who's post do you find offensive ? I don't think anyone has slagged of the PPP ?
My thoughts, I see the PPP as targeting a different market than that of the aftermarket tuners, I mean you're not paying just for an increase of X bhp / torque, you're paying for a fully tested (To Subaru standards) package with which you are gauranteed no problems (as witnessed by Subaru's warranty not being invalidated).
The argument of 'I can get an increase of X' for £150 etc etc is not comparing like for like now is it.
Gary
(uhh probably going to go for the £150 upgrade option now my warranties up
)
Who's post do you find offensive ? I don't think anyone has slagged of the PPP ?
My thoughts, I see the PPP as targeting a different market than that of the aftermarket tuners, I mean you're not paying just for an increase of X bhp / torque, you're paying for a fully tested (To Subaru standards) package with which you are gauranteed no problems (as witnessed by Subaru's warranty not being invalidated).
The argument of 'I can get an increase of X' for £150 etc etc is not comparing like for like now is it.
Gary
(uhh probably going to go for the £150 upgrade option now my warranties up
)
22 September 2000, 03:36 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MikeWood:
<B>Ro,I find your comments about our products offensive, particularly when so many of our customers have posted positive replies.
In our experience a PPP equipped car is actually quicker than a 280ps Japanese spec car in most driving circumstances as it has much more progressive torque delivery charcteristics, especially below 4000 rpm where the STi is particularly lacking. There is not the same power delivery above 6000rpm but how often do most people exploit this in the course of there normal driving.
If your final judgement of a cars speed is based on how fast it is around a race circuit, then I have yet to find ANY Impreza that is significantly faster than our demonstrator.
Mike [/quote]
<B>Ro,I find your comments about our products offensive, particularly when so many of our customers have posted positive replies.
In our experience a PPP equipped car is actually quicker than a 280ps Japanese spec car in most driving circumstances as it has much more progressive torque delivery charcteristics, especially below 4000 rpm where the STi is particularly lacking. There is not the same power delivery above 6000rpm but how often do most people exploit this in the course of there normal driving.
If your final judgement of a cars speed is based on how fast it is around a race circuit, then I have yet to find ANY Impreza that is significantly faster than our demonstrator.
Mike [/quote]
22 September 2000, 03:45 PM
#36
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If I might voice an opinion having recently driven a demonstrator with the PP package on.
IMHO the package ought to be standard issue, sorts out the hesitation, makes the engine smoother and much more comfortable to drive.
It's a bit like vicks vaporub (remember that?) the engine feels like it can breathe easier.
Can't comment on the SS issue but I'm sure a backbox alone wouldn't make enough difference.
Its a shame its not a bit cheaper or available as dealer fit option. Otherwise I really liked it.
IMHO the package ought to be standard issue, sorts out the hesitation, makes the engine smoother and much more comfortable to drive.
It's a bit like vicks vaporub (remember that?) the engine feels like it can breathe easier.
Can't comment on the SS issue but I'm sure a backbox alone wouldn't make enough difference.
Its a shame its not a bit cheaper or available as dealer fit option. Otherwise I really liked it.
22 September 2000, 04:10 PM
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Sorry, bit of points bounce there!!
I have edited my previous post correctly now.
There was a time when things degenerated to unacceptable levels with Prodrive and other companies names being modified in a derogative manner, which may have precipitated the previous Scoobynet's demise.
None of us want that to happen again as we will all be poorer without it.
Back to topic, as Gary rightly points out, we must compare eggs with eggs. We are indeed targeting a different market as all our parts are approved and have no effect on the vehicles warranty.
Mike
I have edited my previous post correctly now.
There was a time when things degenerated to unacceptable levels with Prodrive and other companies names being modified in a derogative manner, which may have precipitated the previous Scoobynet's demise.
None of us want that to happen again as we will all be poorer without it.
Back to topic, as Gary rightly points out, we must compare eggs with eggs. We are indeed targeting a different market as all our parts are approved and have no effect on the vehicles warranty.
Mike
22 September 2000, 05:07 PM
#40
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Mike, these comments are IMHO and if I don't think much of the PPP then I will let the BB know about it, as I have done because IMHO it doesn't offer VALUE FOR MONEY.
Just because it is one of your products that you are selling, it doesn't mean that everyone must rate it highly.
You are more than welcome to bring one down to Watford to demo to me and convince me that it is a worthy conversion to justify the price.
P.S. Atul+JayRaj these were your thoughts as well,remember ?
Ro
Just because it is one of your products that you are selling, it doesn't mean that everyone must rate it highly.
You are more than welcome to bring one down to Watford to demo to me and convince me that it is a worthy conversion to justify the price.
P.S. Atul+JayRaj these were your thoughts as well,remember ?
Ro
22 September 2000, 06:11 PM
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Ro, I think you may have misunderstood me.
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion but comments such as yours that deliberately replace company names with derogatory comments are not really necessary.
If you were in a position to buy a UK specification car then I would be more than happy for you to try the car for you to make a judgement. I feel we would both be wasting our time as you seem to have made the decision that any 280ps car must be better than all cars equipped with our performance package.
Your comments are being based on only a limited try in different cars. Your friends car that has done 27k will be appreciably faster than a low mileage car in the same specification as we all know the cars get quicker with the increase in mileage.
The only real test is to drive the same car before and after.
See Jonathan, AtulM, simes, bash and the hundreds of others who have for details.
Mike
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion but comments such as yours that deliberately replace company names with derogatory comments are not really necessary.
If you were in a position to buy a UK specification car then I would be more than happy for you to try the car for you to make a judgement. I feel we would both be wasting our time as you seem to have made the decision that any 280ps car must be better than all cars equipped with our performance package.
Your comments are being based on only a limited try in different cars. Your friends car that has done 27k will be appreciably faster than a low mileage car in the same specification as we all know the cars get quicker with the increase in mileage.
The only real test is to drive the same car before and after.
See Jonathan, AtulM, simes, bash and the hundreds of others who have for details.
Mike
22 September 2000, 11:45 PM
#42
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I would say that an Sti with breathing mods (ie 99%) will at least match a PPP car low down and then be "superior" higher up the rev range.
But don't underestimate a MY99+ PPP - they will surprise you.
Shame they can't do the same for STIs
But don't underestimate a MY99+ PPP - they will surprise you.
Shame they can't do the same for STIs
23 September 2000, 09:10 AM
#43
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Craig, but they do. One of their customers just joined the bbs
Mike, bit of topic: do you have any idea how far that goes (getting better with mileage) ?
My car now has 35.000 km, and I have the impression that it is still loosening up (not by much, mind you). Where does that curve stop and get negative ?
Cheers,
Theo
Mike, bit of topic: do you have any idea how far that goes (getting better with mileage) ?
My car now has 35.000 km, and I have the impression that it is still loosening up (not by much, mind you). Where does that curve stop and get negative ?
Cheers,
Theo
23 September 2000, 03:27 PM
#44
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Ro,
I think enough said on this topic.
At the end of the day what brand new car in the same class as the Subaru can you get 250 BHP (inc ppp) for less than £24,000.
Standard Subaru is a great car but please drive the ppp regardless of the cost and experience the diference!!!
Happy Driving!!!
I think enough said on this topic.
At the end of the day what brand new car in the same class as the Subaru can you get 250 BHP (inc ppp) for less than £24,000.
Standard Subaru is a great car but please drive the ppp regardless of the cost and experience the diference!!!
Happy Driving!!!
23 September 2000, 10:08 PM
#45
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I don't and will not dismiss that the PPP package is crap. I'm just saying that it may not be value for money.
Seeing the down turn of the second hand market and the amazing specs I've seen on many cars, makes any Scoob great value for money.
I saw an STI 5 Type R the other day for....wait for it....£17k!!!!. This had a remapped ECU (with larger intercooler) and full S/S exhaust. That my friends is value for money.
The PPP is a great car and those who have the money (unlike me) and the satisfaction and security in regards to warranty issues, would be very glad with their purchases.
Jay
Seeing the down turn of the second hand market and the amazing specs I've seen on many cars, makes any Scoob great value for money.
I saw an STI 5 Type R the other day for....wait for it....£17k!!!!. This had a remapped ECU (with larger intercooler) and full S/S exhaust. That my friends is value for money.
The PPP is a great car and those who have the money (unlike me) and the satisfaction and security in regards to warranty issues, would be very glad with their purchases.
Jay
24 September 2000, 06:46 PM
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I have to agree with Mike.
Whilst even I myself do not think the PPP is particularly good value, there is no need to slag Prodrive off over it.
If it was available as individual components, then I think it would be far better received by most Scooby owners, and this is my main gripe.
Also, I keep hearing this 'cars get faster with age' statement, but my car's quicker now than it's ever been and it's just had a new short block. Explanation?
Stef.
Whilst even I myself do not think the PPP is particularly good value, there is no need to slag Prodrive off over it.
If it was available as individual components, then I think it would be far better received by most Scooby owners, and this is my main gripe.
Also, I keep hearing this 'cars get faster with age' statement, but my car's quicker now than it's ever been and it's just had a new short block. Explanation?
Stef.
24 September 2000, 08:37 PM
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Why is it that every single thread on here seems to turn into an argument and clash of personalities !!!
I started reading this thread to give you my own personal experience then I find posts about derogatory comments, name-switching. Jeez U GUYS !!! Do you want scoobynet to close again or WHAT ???
Anyway, here is my experience of the PPP. (Short memories some of you lot )
Have a look at this
I started reading this thread to give you my own personal experience then I find posts about derogatory comments, name-switching. Jeez U GUYS !!! Do you want scoobynet to close again or WHAT ???
Anyway, here is my experience of the PPP. (Short memories some of you lot
)Have a look at this
25 September 2000, 08:35 AM
#48
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As someone who has never and will never put his car on a rolling road but has done and will again put the car against anything at Santa Pod I can safely say my car has only been beaten twice there.
Once to Mike Rainbirds Cosworth and to a modified '93 WRX. Each time I was passed in the last third of the strip.
Any other Subaru my car was up against came second. My car was the fourth fastest Subaru on the strip that day, the fastest being a Wagon, Stef and Spence taking second and third.
On the track, the only negative comment from form instructors about the Prodrive settings was there was too much body roll for his liking.
The Prodrive options are expensive. Very expensive and there are other options which are cheaper, some of which may actually be a lot better.
The only thing I would like to know is why I can't get over 6000rpm in 5th. Is it the aerodynamic wall being hit, or is 155mph [clock speed] the max for the Subaru.
Mike ...
Once to Mike Rainbirds Cosworth and to a modified '93 WRX. Each time I was passed in the last third of the strip.
Any other Subaru my car was up against came second. My car was the fourth fastest Subaru on the strip that day, the fastest being a Wagon, Stef and Spence taking second and third.
On the track, the only negative comment from form instructors about the Prodrive settings was there was too much body roll for his liking.
The Prodrive options are expensive. Very expensive and there are other options which are cheaper, some of which may actually be a lot better.
The only thing I would like to know is why I can't get over 6000rpm in 5th. Is it the aerodynamic wall being hit, or is 155mph [clock speed] the max for the Subaru.
Mike ...
25 September 2000, 09:00 AM
#49
*sigh*
Ro
You are indeed missing the point. Your comment where you replaced the word Prodrive with a derogatory word was neither helpful nor appropriate.
Please refrain from doing that in future.
The majority of posts on this thread are of a useful and discussion orientated nature, Mike has not complained about ANY other posts even the ones which clearly show their dislike to the PPP. There are also a couple of other posts (which Mike did not complain about) which I believe are just rude / bordering on offensive. Can we be mindful of that please?
Let’s take this opportunity to discuss the PPP with a member of prodrive!
For the record.
I have driven a few PPP’d right on the limit at MIRA and have to say that there is little (scooby or otherwise) that will touch them round there. I LOVE my type r, but have to say that (on the same tyres), the PPP would probably take it. Once you have the handling right, torque is what the wet handling circuit is all about, and the PPP seems to have lots of it. You can trail brake heavily into a bend, put it sideways and just squirt it up the next straight. Most subarus take a while to get going, so you are on the gas about ¼ second earlier in order to get the speed out of the bend.
I have no idea what they would be like under other conditions, as I have never driven one on the road, etc. I would not be presumptuous enough to think that I would know what they would be like on the road just because I had hammered them round MIRA. So I cannot comment on it.
Regards
Webmaster / Simon
PS. Lee "every single thread" !?!?!?
Ro
You are indeed missing the point. Your comment where you replaced the word Prodrive with a derogatory word was neither helpful nor appropriate.
Please refrain from doing that in future.
The majority of posts on this thread are of a useful and discussion orientated nature, Mike has not complained about ANY other posts even the ones which clearly show their dislike to the PPP. There are also a couple of other posts (which Mike did not complain about) which I believe are just rude / bordering on offensive. Can we be mindful of that please?
Let’s take this opportunity to discuss the PPP with a member of prodrive!
For the record.
I have driven a few PPP’d right on the limit at MIRA and have to say that there is little (scooby or otherwise) that will touch them round there. I LOVE my type r, but have to say that (on the same tyres), the PPP would probably take it. Once you have the handling right, torque is what the wet handling circuit is all about, and the PPP seems to have lots of it. You can trail brake heavily into a bend, put it sideways and just squirt it up the next straight. Most subarus take a while to get going, so you are on the gas about ¼ second earlier in order to get the speed out of the bend.
I have no idea what they would be like under other conditions, as I have never driven one on the road, etc. I would not be presumptuous enough to think that I would know what they would be like on the road just because I had hammered them round MIRA. So I cannot comment on it.
Regards
Webmaster / Simon
PS. Lee "every single thread" !?!?!?
25 September 2000, 04:09 PM
#52
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An unfortunately very heated debate on this subject during lunch precipitated my remarks. I do apologise for that remark, but do not change my stance on the subject.
Ro
Ro
26 September 2000, 01:58 PM
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The 99/00 kit consists of the following: -
ECU
Exhaust centre section
Back Box
Pipe-work for the intercooler
There is no replacement filter because there are currently NO filters available that pass the Fuji filtration standards.
Simon
ECU
Exhaust centre section
Back Box
Pipe-work for the intercooler
There is no replacement filter because there are currently NO filters available that pass the Fuji filtration standards.
Simon
26 September 2000, 02:07 PM
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Centre section? Is it catless or 'high-flow cat' or what? The PPP is starting to sound more acceptable for the price (it's about 2k right?) -- 7 or 800 quid for an ECU upgrade, 300 quid for a back box and 100 quid for a centre section makes 1100-1200 quid plus whatever intercooler piping costs.