911

Bloody hell! Where did you come back from John?
Nice to 'hear' you again!

Must admit to lacking a bit of enthusiasm at the moment, but the diff is back tomorrow from API and I've the fancy exhaust to go on too.

The young guys are here to stay, so a year on the back benches maybe, but I will be trying!
Yours must be getting close now?

Graham

rob4620

Are you taking your car in Pstation for some slicks tweeking soon mate?

911

I was booked-in for last tuesday, but the diff stopped that.
Diff now done, but will have to wait for some time off work before getting it to Curtis now.
Graham

Brit_in_Japan

Hi Graham,
Do you still drive your car to the events? My current plan is to do occasional events but otherwise use it as a weekend car. The typical suspension setups I've been reading up about for track/competition use requires more camber than you would usually have on a road car. If I had the car setup properly for hill climbing (e.g. by taking it to Powerstation) then I'm going to get a lot less life out of my tyres for ordinary road use. Do you have a simple way of adjusting camber between say a competition setting and a road setting without having a full geometry alignment done each time?
Cheers,
Gary

911

I still drive mine there and back, about 3000 miles a year.
My car has the 'radical' set-up from Power Station, and has had for 3 years now.
No strange tyre wear on my Kumho's which were very very soft compound and lasted 3000 miles no probs.

I do not not change any setting between the road and the hillclimb, not worth it in my experience.
If you change the camber on the top mounts, then the toe changes a little too, and you possibly will not be able to re-set it when you need too with enough accuracy.
Soon wear the threads out in the top mounts!

Set-up, and leave alone except for damping rates.

Graham

Brit_in_Japan

Cheers Graham. I guess there's nothing stopping me from going for something more radical now !

911

After the practice weekend at Loton Park hillclimb, it was obvious the new slicks had changed the attitude of the car to corners.
I was hillclimbing yesterday and Monday at the same track; full-on Championship meeting.
At a 90 right bend with adverse camber, the osr wheel was lifting 6'' off the track, never did that before.
Some advice from 22B led me to stiffen the rebound in the front 2 clicks and soften the rebound in the rear. On the AST 3 ways these adjusters are at the bottom of the struts.

Adjusted 3 of the 4 but the last one (nsf) suddenly stopped adjusting and free-wheeled as if disconnected fron the damping valve. Not good.
The last run of the practice session yesterday seemed to fix the lift, but i was not sure of the setting on the NSF.

Race day today saw me take 3rd in class but the most marked effect is the position of the dccd. My thanks to fellow competitors Rob and Richard to advising on dccd positions as it helped a lot.
It was my personal best too, and the car was good (but not great) and i need to get to grips better with the AST's and some other things such as driving a car with a plated front diff.

The car is due to go to Power Station soon, so the adjuster can be sorted, but I am thinking of trying some 50/40 spring rates again.
Interestingly, the radial road tyre geometry seems to suit the slicks.
At the end of the 1 minute hillclimb, the temperatures across the width of front/rear tyres feels even, but my pressures @ 26/24 psi may be too high (?)

Graham

S.P.Developments

Well done on the PB, what aspect ratio are your tyres now!! will see you at presscott, thats some entry list you was up against, ref the AST`s, interested in what happened to them!!??, so is the dark side looming or is the 911 going to make a return

John

911

Hello John!
I think the adjuster to the rebound (bottom of strut) if out of the adjuster as it just spins round freely.
Taking the car to Wizzard Curtis on friday to leave it there for the week.
Thinking of popping the 50/40 springs back on now i have the grip with the diffs and the slicks. The rolling dia is about the same as road 205 x 50's x 16's. but the Type R ratios are starting to grow on me.
My only doubt is the plated front diff and I'm in 2 minds to remove it but for the effort to do so.
It is hard to steer as the car lurches with it if you are clumbsy.

I think the one front strut is nor adjusted the same as the other, but it is not noticable to my blunt sensibilities...

Wait till you see Pete Harriman's EVO...that car would tempt the Devil.

Driving on slicks is great, and all I need now are larger 'thingies' to drive into the grip zone they offer. Still driving as if I'm on Kumhos still.

If I make a change it will be to Sports Libre!
That decision will be about Sept this year, as I have a plan, but Trish is not impressed.

Graham.

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Graham

Have you tried a helical front diff, or ATB ( assuming they are different??!!) or does a VC front diff exist?

I have only driven rear wheel drive plated diff cars and they did clunk and "hop" on turning! Was wondering if I should go stronger centre diff and some LSD on front, but only drag it once or twice a year!

rob4620

It is motoring sex, being let down by the crap rubber IMO, only his 5th event we are in trouble.

911

I'm not sure you need and lsd in the front with dccd.
Makes the steering much harder to be smooth with.

If the trans goes pop it will come out to sponsor the ppg!

You lot are in trouble with that EVO, I know my place.(about a decending 5th in class!)

Graham

rob4620

Which you always say but just look at the weekend, a respectable 3rd and falling in just behind Roy like last season, he didn't better his PB and you did so surely your improving not decending!

911

I've driven Loton for 14 years.= about 140 times!
You and Pete? about 14 times

I know what is coming next, but at least you will both will be polite about it compared to Zen!

Pete on slicks should be outlawed.

I think i need a quickrack to get around the lsd effect in the steering.

rob4620

I think you will find it's more the strong dccd settings that are affecting the steering if you drove it open it would steer like a dream, but you would not be able to give it any 'beans' out of the corners, it's a traction/steering compromise. That is the evo advantage all the traction with the sweet steering and fat tyres.

ralphandcarol

Graham,

Just a quickie,

How is the DP performing ? interested in any feedback for future reference.

Ralph

ZEN Performance

Graham,

Your biggest problem, your achillies heel, is everything you do between events, or rather the panic nature with which you do them. I've been there, going from one problem to the next between events, constantly chasing problems and never having any stability in the development of the car. There are a few key things you need to try and do.

Only fight the battles you can win. In other words, don't start new mods that you might not be able to complete in time. Rationalise what you NEED to do from what you WANT to do. I always have a long list of thing I want to do, but I try to just do what I need, and spend more time on it.

Don't change too much at once. Not the same as above, but even if you can fit in, changing too many things with the overall spec and/or setup is a recipe for getting lost.

Make the most of what you've got. You can put your effort into sorting out what you've got, or you can put your effort into moaning about what's wrong, and why you can't fix it. Invariably you can fix it with the correct mind set.

Work to a plan. Make a list of things you need to do, prioritise them, and do the things that have the biggest impact first.

Take a step back. If you spend all your time "in" your work, you'll lose sight of what you're doing, or why you're doing. Sometimes it takes the perspective of someone else to stop you doing stupid or needless things.

I would suggest you bring someone to give you some help through the weekend. Trying to build the car, drive the car, set the car and do all the spannering on top DOESN'T WORK. Even if you can bring someone you trust to make changes to tyre pressures, suspension changes, fuel levels, clean windows, it will help you focus on what you need to do on the weekend, DRIVE.

relax

paul

Fuzz

Well said that man.

911

Ralph:
It is great.
Car is crisp and feels like it was with the decat. Even sounds good too!

Paul:
I appreciate what you say, and even agree with a lot of your thoughts.
Last year I did exactly as you say, but needed to advance the car due to obvious competition arriving.

I do know this diff is wrong. With the dccd rom open to 2/3 lock the tug off the steering is disconcerting (to me).
In Oct I had a plan:
Plated rear/dccd/V6 RA box/lsd front/slicks and a green exhaust.
Did all that and almost all the spannering/wires and friggin about.
Then out came the abs and a new part that was screwed took a lot of time too.
I thought that would make the car a bit faster.

We know the result, and it has brassed me off.

So; a rethink has been planned, and I've got someone to do the work (PowerStation and API) on the suspension and the removal of the front diff.
My original plan is only loosing the front diff, rest is in place.

From the first drive in the new spec to the MoT it was clear this was not going to work so i have held back off a test day at Curb as the car was not ready.
It soon will be and I have a small plan to get some assistance to the track if i can, otherwise it is trial and error on the AST's.
The work on the car took just so frustratingly long to do it was very perplexing and all but finished my enthusiasm off.
I really hope the next race at Prescott will restore things and the season will develop as it did last year, but just at a lower class level, BUT, with PB's I hope.
I doubt I can squeeze the best from the car this way, but it is the only practical way for me and the circumstances I 'live' in at the moment.
This has always been the way for me!

My engineering work has no relative link to the car side you 'see' here so I have little expertise to apply, but the common sense you write is correct, just that i don't apply it as concentrated as you do/can.

I am the Design Director of a large company that makes 2,000,000 + door locks a year in UK/China/India, not building killer cars as you obviously can!

I think this is the fun bit? (or it was once).

Thankyou though for the comments, and it is appreciated, noted and i hope will not be the last.

Graham.

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

I seemed to have missed this bit about the diff stopping working, just remembered when you said new part screwed .. was this it? What happened / what did it do? Was this new 2nd hand or new new ?

Just curious

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

It's based on a bit of a discussion we had with Graham over on 22b, the front diff (a plated LSD) isn't broken, it's just not suited to tarmac work. We suggested that Graham ditch it and go back to running an open front diff to get the best out of his car quickly and with minmal additional expenditure.

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Cheers Tim, got that, wondered what I had missed!

911

Tim is nearly right!

The car was booked to Power Station for a suspension tweek to allow for the slicks and putting the car back to 50/40 springs.

On a Member's practice Day hillclimb the osr drive shaft snapped in the rear diff and the car came back on a trailer..
I had not fully located the shaft in the diff as the NSR was too long to allow it to locate the clip fully.
The shaft worked out of the diff untill the full race load snapped the CV shaft under the clip groove. Masses of detail on 22b.

Once fixed by API the car was raced for real and the rear was/is perfect.

Now, what Tim stated is perfectly true!

My life with this car had rotated around diffs diffs diffs for 5 months....

The plated front comes out over the next week or so at API, I'm fed-up of working on the car for no gain!

The car will be back to a condition that i can drive for the next Championship round.

Graham.

911

Been to fetch the Sti from Curtis at Power Station this morning after a tweek or two.
It has new angles for the slicks which will be interesting, and the 50/40 springs back on.
Curtis fixed the simple prob with the front rebound adjuster I found at Loton hillclimb, and i set off to drop the car at API.

The springs on the road at least feel great, and the car runs arrow straight (as it did before to be honest) and all feels well.

The front ends bobs about a bit more on the weaker springs so a bit of adjusting will be needed to get things right for the early May Prescott.

The car is now at a very busy API for the next 2 weeks to have the diff removed and go to the open diff again to get steering control back to how I can cope with.

Must start to study 3 way adjustments more, but I expect to hire a morning ar a sprint track with a known expert to dial the car in in safety (and privacy).

I hope to give a lot more detail about that day soon.

Graham

911

Been at Prescott hillclimb today for the practice to tomorrow'a race.
The car has been to API to have the front plated diff removed and the open diff put back in.

What a difference!
It is great to steer again and feel in control!

Talking to fellow competitor Pete in his killa EVO and also on 3 way AST's, he has hardened the damping on his heavier car on rebound.

Thought this a good idea, so with the prospect of 3 runs, did a tweek.

First run gave a 49.02 climb, not too bad for a first run.
Car was 'staedy' and did the business.

Stiffened the rebound by one click and did the second run.
Tumbled the time to 47.47! That is a big jump in hillclimb terms.
Car was much better and attacked the course hard. Confidence was swelling!!

For the 3rd run I dropped the pressures in the slicks to 4 psi lower front and back (they were quite high before) and another click of stiffness for good measure.

Time dropped again to 47.13, but the car was far more wayward and I had a few 'rally' moments in some dodgy places...

Big progress.

Further to this, I have finally booked my private track day at Curborough and have enlisted a man who knows how to set a car up to get to the bottom of the optimum settings for the AST's and the softer springs I now have on the car.
It will be interesting to see where we end up.

This will be in mid May so I will post the results after.

Graham.

Third run at Prescott in the fastest part:
DropShots Day

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

So, ditching that plated front diff was the correct thing to do then!?!

911

Too true it was.
Had a killa day racing today.
Shattered my personal best, almost some good starts but the chassis is seriously not right.
The car is very tail happy and 'awkward' and i found some driving control skills i thought i never had....

Wild at times.

There can only be 2 reasons for this, the geometry and/or the slicks. This car has never been like this before, and I need to sort it out asap.
Look at the vids from today. The first bend is at 70 mph:
DropShots Day
Listen to the slicks and try to spot the rear nearside wheel mid bend.
Similar here, but watch the EVO too:
DropShots Day

Time to sit down and think.

Graham

terryb

Graham - excellent result mate - glad you enjoyed the day more importantly.

Just a thought regarding the wheel lifting. You are running with linear springs aren't you? Would a set of progressive springs help in that department? Or shorter linear with a short progressive combo (like I have with the LEDA Bs)? Especially with the car being used for hillclimbs. I think I will move away from them for my track biased work.

911

They are linear but with previous set-ups the car has never lifted in that bend before (the long sweeping one)
The test day on track will allow a lot of changing about to be done.

Slicks give you zero warning like road tyres do that things are happening.

Fortunatly I hope to have someone with me who can help me make my way through the AST's/slicks/roll bar options.

You know very well in hillclimbing there are precious few opportunities to tweek the car and see what effect such tweeks have.
A 4 hour session on the sprint track should see a final setting.

Quick rack on tomorrow, so the car will be ready for the testing.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Sorry Graham but that looks like the a fun chassis set up that little slide looked like it set you up beautifully for the next straight.

Mind you I like it fast and loose