Searching for the perfect Chassis
16 April 2006, 08:22 PM
#331
Yep: it is Roy Standley who plauges me on the hills, just a bloody quick that car/driver combination.
A hill climb start is standing from the light beams, NO roll-out etc and a straight 64 feet out.
Do this in 2 seconds and you have pulled 1 g in accelleration.
Paul, it really is not as easy as it sounds!
The Bloody EVO also has launch control and anti lag a-pleanty, and i have my right foot....
Friggin' hell, I'll have a good bash at them tomorrow!
Graham
A hill climb start is standing from the light beams, NO roll-out etc and a straight 64 feet out.
Do this in 2 seconds and you have pulled 1 g in accelleration.
Paul, it really is not as easy as it sounds!
The Bloody EVO also has launch control and anti lag a-pleanty, and i have my right foot....
Friggin' hell, I'll have a good bash at them tomorrow!
Graham
16 April 2006, 08:24 PM
#332
I should add, that the change from 3rd to 4th in the fastest part of the track, 'Cedar Straight' was just awsome and frikin' scarey i tell you.
What a great car!
Graham
What a great car!
Graham
16 April 2006, 08:55 PM
#337
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Originally Posted by 911
Yep: it is Roy Standley who plauges me on the hills, just a bloody quick that car/driver combination.
A hill climb start is standing from the light beams, NO roll-out etc and a straight 64 feet out.
Do this in 2 seconds and you have pulled 1 g in accelleration.
Paul, it really is not as easy as it sounds!
The Bloody EVO also has launch control and anti lag a-pleanty, and i have my right foot....
Friggin' hell, I'll have a good bash at them tomorrow!
Graham
A hill climb start is standing from the light beams, NO roll-out etc and a straight 64 feet out.
Do this in 2 seconds and you have pulled 1 g in accelleration.
Paul, it really is not as easy as it sounds!
The Bloody EVO also has launch control and anti lag a-pleanty, and i have my right foot....
Friggin' hell, I'll have a good bash at them tomorrow!
Graham
We have been through this before!
Going from 60 to 64 feet and removing the rollout adds less than 0.2 to the time. With everything set properly (clutch pedal feel etc) I can hit 1.65 60ft with no launch control or ALS on a NON PREPPED but not greasy surface. My best with lauch control and a prepped track is 1.51, on 17" wheels and tyres.
If you want to improve, you need to take the leap of faith that you are not as fast as you could be and stop making excuses! But you need to practice, and the best place to do it is somewhere you can do repeated runs and get 60ft info. If you start with say 1.9s and come away with 1.7 then that's a cheap 0.2 seconds!
The comment Matt makes about driving through the wheel spin is important, it's easy to think you've hit the limiter in 1st when infact you're just spinning the wheels, at some point they will catch up with things, then you change gear avoiding bogging into 2nd gear. Also it might be worth practicing 4 wheel rolling burnouts which are permitted under the regs.
16 April 2006, 09:00 PM
#338
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
Graham,
We have been through this before!
Going from 60 to 64 feet and removing the rollout adds less than 0.2 to the time. With everything set properly (clutch pedal feel etc) I can hit 1.65 60ft with no launch control or ALS on a NON PREPPED but not greasy surface. My best with lauch control and a prepped track is 1.51, on 17" wheels and tyres.
If you want to improve, you need to take the leap of faith that you are not as fast as you could be and stop making excuses! But you need to practice, and the best place to do it is somewhere you can do repeated runs and get 60ft info. If you start with say 1.9s and come away with 1.7 then that's a cheap 0.2 seconds!
The comment Matt makes about driving through the wheel spin is important, it's easy to think you've hit the limiter in 1st when infact you're just spinning the wheels, at some point they will catch up with things, then you change gear avoiding bogging into 2nd gear. Also it might be worth practicing 4 wheel rolling burnouts which are permitted under the regs.
We have been through this before!
Going from 60 to 64 feet and removing the rollout adds less than 0.2 to the time. With everything set properly (clutch pedal feel etc) I can hit 1.65 60ft with no launch control or ALS on a NON PREPPED but not greasy surface. My best with lauch control and a prepped track is 1.51, on 17" wheels and tyres.
If you want to improve, you need to take the leap of faith that you are not as fast as you could be and stop making excuses! But you need to practice, and the best place to do it is somewhere you can do repeated runs and get 60ft info. If you start with say 1.9s and come away with 1.7 then that's a cheap 0.2 seconds!
The comment Matt makes about driving through the wheel spin is important, it's easy to think you've hit the limiter in 1st when infact you're just spinning the wheels, at some point they will catch up with things, then you change gear avoiding bogging into 2nd gear. Also it might be worth practicing 4 wheel rolling burnouts which are permitted under the regs.
that boging in second is a big time loser and has to be arradicated before you get the best times you can achive on the day...
16 April 2006, 09:01 PM
#339
Hi Graham
When you were up at Elvington last week, this was my first attempt at drag racing and my launches weren't that great, but I found I could do them in virtually 2 seconds dead, after a couple of goes. It might be worth an experiment, to have a go a drag racing to see if you could shave a few tenths off the start time. At least if you ***** up the start you have another go and another and.....
Andy
When you were up at Elvington last week, this was my first attempt at drag racing and my launches weren't that great, but I found I could do them in virtually 2 seconds dead, after a couple of goes. It might be worth an experiment, to have a go a drag racing to see if you could shave a few tenths off the start time. At least if you ***** up the start you have another go and another and.....
Andy
Last edited by andy97; 16 April 2006 at 09:04 PM.
16 April 2006, 09:02 PM
#340
Yes. I accept the comments!
When i left the line today i had mega wheelspin, and easing-off the throttle achieved some grip, all in the 64 foot space.
I can get max boost (and max torque?) at 3800, so if i drop the clutch at a steady 4500 then this could get the job done?
Will risk it and try this tomorrow.
What a pain.
My 911 was so much easier!
Graham
When i left the line today i had mega wheelspin, and easing-off the throttle achieved some grip, all in the 64 foot space.
I can get max boost (and max torque?) at 3800, so if i drop the clutch at a steady 4500 then this could get the job done?
Will risk it and try this tomorrow.
What a pain.
My 911 was so much easier!
Graham
16 April 2006, 09:09 PM
#341
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If you want something to try, then try varying ONE thing, I would suggest the launch rpm. With a standard weight flywheel I found 4500rpm was pretty good. However it doesn't have a lot to do with the RPM you get full boost at when pulling in a high gear as 1st gear is over so quickly that the turbo hits full boost much later.
I would also use the handbrake if you don't already (I assume you must given the start lights), pop it off as you leave, you don't have to be too precise with it as the car WILL launch handbrake on or not! Using the handbrake to hold the car on the line, with foot down on clutch, you want to be blipping the throttle around your chosen launch RPM, then launch as you are going foot DOWN on throttle, and go WOT progressively as you lift the clutch. It sounds like you are being a bit slow with the clutch release, and are at full throttle by the time it engages, promoting huge spin. When I had a very similar setup to yours, I would get about 6 feet of wheelspin on a good launch.
Paul
I would also use the handbrake if you don't already (I assume you must given the start lights), pop it off as you leave, you don't have to be too precise with it as the car WILL launch handbrake on or not! Using the handbrake to hold the car on the line, with foot down on clutch, you want to be blipping the throttle around your chosen launch RPM, then launch as you are going foot DOWN on throttle, and go WOT progressively as you lift the clutch. It sounds like you are being a bit slow with the clutch release, and are at full throttle by the time it engages, promoting huge spin. When I had a very similar setup to yours, I would get about 6 feet of wheelspin on a good launch.
Paul
Originally Posted by 911
Yes. I accept the comments!
When i left the line today i had mega wheelspin, and easing-off the throttle achieved some grip, all in the 64 foot space.
I can get max boost (and max torque?) at 3800, so if i drop the clutch at a steady 4500 then this could get the job done?
Will risk it and try this tomorrow.
What a pain.
My 911 was so much easier!
Graham
When i left the line today i had mega wheelspin, and easing-off the throttle achieved some grip, all in the 64 foot space.
I can get max boost (and max torque?) at 3800, so if i drop the clutch at a steady 4500 then this could get the job done?
Will risk it and try this tomorrow.
What a pain.
My 911 was so much easier!
Graham
16 April 2006, 09:23 PM
#342
Originally Posted by Zen Performance
If you want something to try, then try varying ONE thing, I would suggest the launch rpm. With a standard weight flywheel I found 4500rpm was pretty good. However it doesn't have a lot to do with the RPM you get full boost at when pulling in a high gear as 1st gear is over so quickly that the turbo hits full boost much later.
I would also use the handbrake if you don't already (I assume you must given the start lights), pop it off as you leave, you don't have to be too precise with it as the car WILL launch handbrake on or not! Using the handbrake to hold the car on the line, with foot down on clutch, you want to be blipping the throttle around your chosen launch RPM, then launch as you are going foot DOWN on throttle, and go WOT progressively as you lift the clutch. It sounds like you are being a bit slow with the clutch release, and are at full throttle by the time it engages, promoting huge spin. When I had a very similar setup to yours, I would get about 6 feet of wheelspin on a good launch.
Paul
I would also use the handbrake if you don't already (I assume you must given the start lights), pop it off as you leave, you don't have to be too precise with it as the car WILL launch handbrake on or not! Using the handbrake to hold the car on the line, with foot down on clutch, you want to be blipping the throttle around your chosen launch RPM, then launch as you are going foot DOWN on throttle, and go WOT progressively as you lift the clutch. It sounds like you are being a bit slow with the clutch release, and are at full throttle by the time it engages, promoting huge spin. When I had a very similar setup to yours, I would get about 6 feet of wheelspin on a good launch.
Paul
Andy
16 April 2006, 09:43 PM
#343
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Hi Graham.
Wish you all the best for tomorrow, take the plunge sort the gearbox out and blow that evo away, know what you mean about the start though,.
John
Wish you all the best for tomorrow, take the plunge sort the gearbox out and blow that evo away, know what you mean about the start though,.
John
16 April 2006, 10:15 PM
#344
Thanks to everyone!
Paul you are right, and I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Andy is right too, you sit there and the lights go green. That simply means the track is yours and you go when you are ready. The car is stable and chocked into position on the start line.
The huge wheel spin is for about the first 6 feet.
It does not bog down into 2 nd as i wait till the track speed is right in first, about 30 feet out.
Trying not to get a thing about it all!
My flywheel is stock and the clutch an AP Organic.
I need wheel SLIP, not spin.
Graham
Paul you are right, and I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Andy is right too, you sit there and the lights go green. That simply means the track is yours and you go when you are ready. The car is stable and chocked into position on the start line.
The huge wheel spin is for about the first 6 feet.
It does not bog down into 2 nd as i wait till the track speed is right in first, about 30 feet out.
Trying not to get a thing about it all!
My flywheel is stock and the clutch an AP Organic.
I need wheel SLIP, not spin.
Graham
16 April 2006, 10:49 PM
#345
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Hi,
graham wouldn't wheel spin be reduced and grip increased if you use wider tires? like 215/40/16 or 225/40/16? or aren't these sizes available in soft compound?
good luck
graham wouldn't wheel spin be reduced and grip increased if you use wider tires? like 215/40/16 or 225/40/16? or aren't these sizes available in soft compound?
good luck
16 April 2006, 11:12 PM
#346
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Originally Posted by andy97
I think the start is when you are ready you go, and from what I have seen the car is chocked behind the rear wheel, to stop rolling back
Andy
Andy
16 April 2006, 11:14 PM
#347
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Originally Posted by 911
Thanks to everyone!
Paul you are right, and I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Andy is right too, you sit there and the lights go green. That simply means the track is yours and you go when you are ready. The car is stable and chocked into position on the start line.
The huge wheel spin is for about the first 6 feet.
It does not bog down into 2 nd as i wait till the track speed is right in first, about 30 feet out.
Trying not to get a thing about it all!
My flywheel is stock and the clutch an AP Organic.
I need wheel SLIP, not spin.
Graham
Paul you are right, and I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Andy is right too, you sit there and the lights go green. That simply means the track is yours and you go when you are ready. The car is stable and chocked into position on the start line.
The huge wheel spin is for about the first 6 feet.
It does not bog down into 2 nd as i wait till the track speed is right in first, about 30 feet out.
Trying not to get a thing about it all!
My flywheel is stock and the clutch an AP Organic.
I need wheel SLIP, not spin.
Graham
17 April 2006, 06:41 AM
#348
cmp:
Can't get the tyres under the arches/suspension legs @ 225.
Also the tyres come as 225 x 55 x 16 so are huge diameter too which kills the gearing!
Paul:
Yes; I thingi am lunching on the down stroke of the accellerator but prodding it too far rather than 'just enough'
I know i can get this right and cut a 2.07 at Loton, just find it hard to repeat...
I'm far more bothered about that Lotus!
Report tonight.
Graham
Can't get the tyres under the arches/suspension legs @ 225.
Also the tyres come as 225 x 55 x 16 so are huge diameter too which kills the gearing!
Paul:
Yes; I thingi am lunching on the down stroke of the accellerator but prodding it too far rather than 'just enough'
I know i can get this right and cut a 2.07 at Loton, just find it hard to repeat...
I'm far more bothered about that Lotus!
Report tonight.
Graham
17 April 2006, 08:28 PM
#349
Back from the races today.
Result: 2nd in class, just 1.3 secs behind the EVo, I think the closest i've been to him ever.
The ASt's with a small tweek to the high speed compression adjustment (softer) mad a big difference and the chassis was realy quite sophisticated today in dry or wet. We had both and everyone went about 1.3 sec slower oddly.
The Lotus Sumbeam broke (it is an all-steel 2.6 litre car) which is just as well, and lucky for me.
Some vids for you:
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030101&cimg=2
Nearly the same but a bit damp :
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030101&cimg=3
Time to rest with a bottle of white.
Car was truely fab this weekend.
Big thanks to AndyF who has mapped such a nice engine, and i really wished i'd gone for Avon slicks!
Prescott in 2 weeks time and a new challenge.
The EVO will be there...
Graham
Result: 2nd in class, just 1.3 secs behind the EVo, I think the closest i've been to him ever.
The ASt's with a small tweek to the high speed compression adjustment (softer) mad a big difference and the chassis was realy quite sophisticated today in dry or wet. We had both and everyone went about 1.3 sec slower oddly.
The Lotus Sumbeam broke (it is an all-steel 2.6 litre car) which is just as well, and lucky for me.
Some vids for you:
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030101&cimg=2
Nearly the same but a bit damp :
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030101&cimg=3
Time to rest with a bottle of white.
Car was truely fab this weekend.
Big thanks to AndyF who has mapped such a nice engine, and i really wished i'd gone for Avon slicks!
Prescott in 2 weeks time and a new challenge.
The EVO will be there...
Graham
17 April 2006, 09:23 PM
#351
Paul:
Tried a few different strokes on the stat line.
Pre warmed the tyres with a goodly blast of 5500 rpm and tried blipping etc and careful starts, and got about a 2.28 at best
Besy EVO could do was 2.19 with launch control (etc)
Graham
Tried a few different strokes on the stat line.
Pre warmed the tyres with a goodly blast of 5500 rpm and tried blipping etc and careful starts, and got about a 2.28 at best
Besy EVO could do was 2.19 with launch control (etc)
Graham
17 April 2006, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 911
Paul:
Tried a few different strokes on the stat line.
Pre warmed the tyres with a goodly blast of 5500 rpm and tried blipping etc and careful starts, and got about a 2.28 at best
Besy EVO could do was 2.19 with launch control (etc)
Graham
Tried a few different strokes on the stat line.
Pre warmed the tyres with a goodly blast of 5500 rpm and tried blipping etc and careful starts, and got about a 2.28 at best
Besy EVO could do was 2.19 with launch control (etc)
Graham
18 April 2006, 01:35 PM
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graham, I saw a vid of a track race between several AE86 where some used 15' tires and those who used 17' tires finished in the top places. if bigger rims are "perfect" for track race, woun't they be good for hill climbing?
18 April 2006, 05:49 PM
#356
It comes down to available tyres.
I can only get the Kumho's in soft compound in 16'' (or 15 or 14..)
The Dunlops are available in 17's.
Avon slicks only in 14/15/16 not 17's.
the weight and moment of inertia for the 17's is higher than the 16's as aluminium weighs more than rubber, but the difference is not so great.
The real issues are the EVO has 500 bhp, Sti about 380/400
The EVO has a short ratio box
EVO has lunch control/anti lag
Wide tyres (235's)
And the EVO has a better driver!
But we will persevere.
Graham
I can only get the Kumho's in soft compound in 16'' (or 15 or 14..)
The Dunlops are available in 17's.
Avon slicks only in 14/15/16 not 17's.
the weight and moment of inertia for the 17's is higher than the 16's as aluminium weighs more than rubber, but the difference is not so great.
The real issues are the EVO has 500 bhp, Sti about 380/400
The EVO has a short ratio box
EVO has lunch control/anti lag
Wide tyres (235's)
And the EVO has a better driver!
But we will persevere.
Graham
I use 17 but have thought about going up to 18's.....
18 April 2006, 09:08 PM
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you're talking yourself out of that 1.8 64foot time again!
Originally Posted by 911
It comes down to available tyres.
I can only get the Kumho's in soft compound in 16'' (or 15 or 14..)
The Dunlops are available in 17's.
Avon slicks only in 14/15/16 not 17's.
the weight and moment of inertia for the 17's is higher than the 16's as aluminium weighs more than rubber, but the difference is not so great.
The real issues are the EVO has 500 bhp, Sti about 380/400
The EVO has a short ratio box
EVO has lunch control/anti lag
Wide tyres (235's)
And the EVO has a better driver!
But we will persevere.
Graham
I can only get the Kumho's in soft compound in 16'' (or 15 or 14..)
The Dunlops are available in 17's.
Avon slicks only in 14/15/16 not 17's.
the weight and moment of inertia for the 17's is higher than the 16's as aluminium weighs more than rubber, but the difference is not so great.
The real issues are the EVO has 500 bhp, Sti about 380/400
The EVO has a short ratio box
EVO has lunch control/anti lag
Wide tyres (235's)
And the EVO has a better driver!
But we will persevere.
Graham
18 April 2006, 10:42 PM
#359
After this weekend, more like 2.8!
Some races i can get it really good, ie 2.07 (honestly, that is a good road car start) then sometimes it is not with me at all.
Must try harder.
The car has a lot more torque low down so maybe a bit of time to adjust.
Started my Gearbox War chest tonight by selling my old AVO struts.
Graham.
Some races i can get it really good, ie 2.07 (honestly, that is a good road car start) then sometimes it is not with me at all.
Must try harder.
The car has a lot more torque low down so maybe a bit of time to adjust.
Started my Gearbox War chest tonight by selling my old AVO struts.
Graham.
