Jerome

Britain certainly needs to do something about where national identity is going. To declare yourself as "Proud to be British" is almost considered racist nowadays.

As for not being able to fly the Union Flag without appearing racist, it's very sad. You should see how incredulous Americans and Canadians are when you tell them this.

ajm

I have a completely dispassionate view of the concept of 'racism'. As a species we are an exception on 2 counts...

1) As 'human beings' we are all classified as one species yet, when compared to numerous examples of other animals, we should be classified into various species.
2) We willingly interbreed (or to an extent anyway)

In all other examples of seperate species that are physically able to interbreed in the wild, none willingly do so (other than very rare events) and all have an innate caution of all other closely related species.... and some have an abject intolerance.....

Blacks have an innate preference for blacks over whites, and whites have an innate preference for whites over blacks... etc etc... that isn't racism, that is millions of years worth of evolution trying to keep a particular 'species' secure. This is why total 'integration' is a pipe dream, it will never happen.

The concept of racism, to me, is a needless discrimination against a particular group of people based solely upon their race. This is unreasonable and unacceptable.

To my mind, we will never get to a situation where we all regard each other as the same, because biologically we are not... we should be working towards symbiosis, or interdependence, not 'integration' IMO....

Turbohot

I find these debates so tedious, its unbelievable!
The fact is,some are racist,some arent.Any minority anywhere will go through some kind of disadvantage.No matter what,no matter what part of the world you live.The real buzz is, to survive all that and live with your head held as high as everyone else.Not more,not less!
IMHO
Enufff said

-TH ( From Indian to global and a human being forever till she has snuffed it! )

Leslie

I agree with WRX Pete and his is a good post. The old values from a few years ago were good and it is worth remembering that tolerance was also a prime British belief.

I totally disagree that we should harbour racist feelings but will also say that those who settle in our country should accept our traditional way of life and not try to change us.

Over reaction by the PC mob is eating away at our traditions which are good and worth being proud of. It has been dragging us down and the results are clear to see.

Its a matter of "live and let live" and ignoring all this interferance by people who just do not understand what they are trying to do.

Les

dpb

anyone can be racist and there will always be the likes of bnp to 'offer' the xenophobic alternative to the weak minded

ScooBStu

I tell you the trouble with this country is that it is vastly racist against the whites - Why because other cultures seem to have more rights than us - They can get away with anything practically and just blaim it on their religion.

I was having a chat to one of my mates the other night and I feel myself becoming more racist due to the bombings. I know that most of the Muslims are allegedly honest working citizens but in my opinion there is something wrong with the religion for them to seem to breed these suicide bombers - They are all coming from the same religions.

I personally think something needs to be done about it and stop fannying around - The first option is to wait till they are all in their classes in the so called university of holy war and drop a bloody bomb on them.

carl

Much like all the white Christians who knocked crap out of the rest of the world during the Crusades. Which was, what, 500 years ago? Interestingly, Islam is about 500 years "younger" than Christianity.

The IRA have waged a war of terror against this country for 30 years or more. And they're Catholics. They all come from the same religion. But I don't see this backlash against Catholicism.

Personally I see these problems as coming from globalization. You have a bunch of different areas in the world, all developing in isolation. Suddenly they're all connected together by transport links, telecommunications, TV, etc. and we're shocked when we discover that some countries haven't developed as quickly as ours. Equally, in some of these less developed countries there's jealousy of what we used to call "The West" -- which is constantly in their faces through MTV, global news, etc.

I see countries like India and Pakistan as being similar to how we were 100 years ago. The Middle East is similar, but is a bit like a premiership footballer in that it's suddenly got a shedload of money but doesn't really know how to handle it.

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

Seems to be a lot of naive people in this country. Can't believe we are giving British citizenship to some of the people that we are. I am not racist in the sense that I don't judge a person on their race solely, but some groups of people in this country definitely have characteristics that I don't like. I feel that this country is in decline to be honest and we are certainly losing our identity. I often feel like many of the new comers to this country don't really respect our way of life or the society we as a nation have spent hundreds of years building. I think that this multi-cultural society dream with everybody 'integrated' and proud to be British won't happen. Many immigrants do contribute a lot to the country, but many more seem to do the reverse.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

It's the vociferous minority syndrome - most integrate but you'll get some tossers who muck it up for the rest, so a bit like the indigenous population...

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

Additionally... I think it is very important that the realistic people in this country who want an open and rational debate about these issues speak openly about their views. Why should we get shouted down and accused of being 'racist' for taking a view that doesn't perfectly match the governments PC stance.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

& yes, I'll stick my hand up in rememberence of that character

Chip

So how many have been killed by lightening then, compared to the terrorist attacks in London. None as far as I recall.

My brother and his wife were caught up in the bombings of 11 days ago but were very luckily unhurt though a little shocked and horrified.

My wife and 16 year old daughter are travelling to London tomorrow as well, so yes, it does concern and worry me me that these attacks are happenings in London.


Chip

Chip

Exactly,well said Ben. The people of this country are too bloody scared to say what they feel these days for fear of not only being branded a racist but also being prosecuted for purely expressing their views. What ever happened to freedom of speech.

Ive always been very open about my views and what I think, if people dont like it then tough. They should bear in mind that I dont like thewir views either but they are entitled to think whatever they want as far as I am concerned.

Chip

Chip

Mk2_heaven

i hate the fact that most things cannot be said or done without coming under the racist banner all to quickly when theres a fight or anything the race card is played "it was a racially motivated attack" bollox, then gets played again " your only arresting me because im black" bollox again , im sorry but "they" really wind me up, cant do anything without being labelled a racist.bloody hell i remember having a gollywog when i was young, its not racist!

Hol

iTrader: (1)

If you call a tall person a stupid lanky git, when he spills a pint of ribina down your (no desdriptive colour shirt), is that racist?

It may well be the most descriptive explanation of his appearance you can come up with, but if he had been an ethnic, and you applied the same logic - That would be racist??

People have been in court for doing this. Im sure they all now wish the other guy had some other hugely distinctive feature.

There are people who hate and resent. But the vast majority of US are unconcerned by another's colour or religion (which hardly evers comes up in conversation!). We just can't understand why people think WE need to change?

xlprince

There is racism and there will always be, i guess there is more awareness now than before.
I guess politicians like to prove a point by bringing up all this political correctness rubbish which only brings sentiment and resentment from the majority.
AS an ethnic minority, i don't agree with the so called political correctness which makes the politician look good, that does not fulfil the average joe black on the streets.

It's a free world, if people do't like you for being 'different' so to speak, it's allowed. Amonst londoners i've heard comments like " what do you expect, he's from the south of the river".
There is the north/south divide amongsts british indigenes, so why won't there be against non-whites.
Just my 2 cents.

Chip

Yes very true. As ive stated on this board before my next door neighbours are from Madras and are hard working, honest people as well as being fantastic neighbours. My wife childminded for them when their kids were little and we had no problems at all with the fact that they were from India.

No problems at all until the council came around to do the annual inspection on my wife. All they ranted on about was that she had to have ethnic toys, puzzles etc and be able to give any children ethnic type foods etc. Oh no,having an Indian child in your care wasnt enough for them, they had to go the full Monty on it. Chinese doll wasnt good enough for them either, they wanted carribean dolls and multi cultural videos for the kids to watch.All their leaflets featured black and Asian kids much more than white kids.

My neighbours were appalled at this as much as we were. Due to all of this and other far reaching regulation she has now given up looking after others children.

Chip

xlprince

Exactly my point.
Some fat idiot who has no clue, comes up with some idiotic political correctness idea, only to cause chaos. Now that can cause resentment leading to racism.

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

You got a point there !
things that attribute to war!!! Land, Religion..... nearly forgot WOMEN

moses

well said carl

india and pakistan and alot of middle eastern countries only been free for just over 50 yrs and it will take time they tried dictatorship , so called democrazy etc etc and nothing seems to work yet

KiwiGTI

But it's been proven time and time again that terrorism is not related to poverty or development.

Where are all the South American, African, Chinese terrorists?

moses

they didnt get invaded by the west or have hundreds and thousands of civilians cleansed and more

silly question u asked wasnt it

plus america wont dare mess with the chinese they will get their ***** kicked

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Depends where you are sitting...

There are South American terroists - see Columbia for a start.

Maoists, Tamils, others all over the world. Most terrorists are rebels for one cause or another, its just that not all of them export their fight to the rest of the world.

& I think you'll find that a lot of them are rebelling agsinst oppression and their poverty or (lack of) development.

moses

thanks puff the kind wagon

Martin_Aimless

Yes they did. Never heard of the Opium Wars of the Spanish Conquistadors?

KiwiGTI

OK, I didnt clarify my question as much as I should, but my point was that the current terrorists lack a well-defined political objective, aren't coming from a singular cohesive group and that a lot of their actions are outside of the countries that thiey wish to affect change in.

And they target innocent civilians over harder targets.

Where are the international actions of the Chinese and South American based terrorist groups. :-)

But also in a lot of these cases you end up having to debate the difference between freedom fighters/rebels/terrorists too.

moses

i dont know much about spanish wars mate or south american

all i know is an italian ****** called columbus went their and butchered so many

and of course che guvara came from their,class dude and also carlos the jackal

carl

Unlike, say, the IRA? Canary Wharf, Baltic Exchange, Omagh, Harrods, Birmingham pub bomb, etc.

moses

kiwi im sick of arguing like a kid with u and others i will make it civil coz u asked i a civil manner this time

freedomfighters and rebels and terrorists theirs a different bud


freedomfighter

freedom for his land and invasion and people stealing their homes and wealth and oppressing them and a fight to liberate their people

rebel same as above but can be other reasons, anti government and want their rights etc and some can be freedomfighters and some even terrorists who attack civilians and some who only attack government officials , soldiers and also the oppressive governments economy to get their own rights

then theirs the terrorsists blair, zarqawai, bush, putin, osama, sharon category and some hamas and islamic jihad leader scum who dont send their own children their all getting educated in saudi , jordan and all but send other peoples childrens to war like bush, zarqawai, putin, sharon and osama but not their own,

slaughtering innocents, lil children, schools and people looking for a job to feed their families as we see in iraq and blowing up and beheading innocent foreigners like journalists and charity people

thats terrorism

thanks carl again cool post

KiwiGTI

I didn't ask you anything this time.

I have no problem arguing with you or anyone else, civil or uncvil, that's the whole point of arguments and forums like this.

Do have a problem when people don't read what I write properly and get emotional and misquote me.