AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps predictably, I prefer your second suggestion to the first

After all, at least with a school, you really do have a large number of people all of whom need to be at the same place at the same time. OK, they all live in different places, but that's still only half the problem that public transport otherwise faces. If a school has a limited catchment area, then all the journeys are, by definition, local.

If you want to introduce a varying rate depending on the length of the journey - an idea which I agree has merit - the problem is how you define a journey. I think that in order to work, the high price band would have to be per day rather than per trip; one of the reasons the car is so indispensible is its ability to go not just from A to B, but from A to E via B, C and D and then back via F.

I think we have a lack of data here on just what types of journeys are taking place on the most congested roads. The suggestion seems to be that many people who are sitting there in traffic don't 'need' to be there, for some definition of the word 'need'. I doubt that's true, but I stand to be corrected if anyone can present reliable, independent and unbiased data to the contrary.

Sadly I'm not aware of any source of such data.

OllyK

We'll have that data, just as soon as we fit this GPS unit to your car!

Diablo

Nope, but I'd most certainly walk 2 miles to work on a nice day, and happily jump a bus/train when it rained as it would only be a short journey.

Just think of the health benefits and reduced drain on the NHS.

Short journeys should be the ones most heavily hit, they are the ones that are generally unnecessary, conjestion causing and have the greatest environmental impact.

OllyK

Kind of ironic that I changed job and moved house so I now only have 8 miles to go to work instead of 80 and I am now potentially considered as being worse for the environment!

TelBoy

No, that's illogical reasoning, Olly. You'd still pay a lot less if for an 8 mile journey than if it was an 80 mile journey, given what's been discussed here so far.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Actually in my letter I do suggest several alternatives:

- changes to employment law and/or tax incentives to drive the wider adoption of flexible working hours

- similar changes to encourage people who can do so to work from home 1 day a week, with supporting changes to planning and land use regs to ensure they can legally do so

- the removal of traffic calming measures, out-of-phase lights, under-utilised bus lanes and other meaures which exist only to create congestion where none need exist at all

- better provision of town centre parking; inadequate provision doesn't reduce congestion by making people stay away, it increases it because more people have to drive further looking for a space. It also does cause people to stay away, which hurts local businesses, but only because the congestion already exists. We have the downsides of gridlock without the benefit to the local economy of people actually getting to the shops to spend their money.

- better incentives to buy smaller, more efficient cars to supplement the main family transport. If a family can only afford to run one car, it needs to be big enough to transport the whole family plus their luggage or shopping - hence the unfashionable urban 4x4. That doesn't mean people need to use such a big vehicle when there's just the driver and maybe one child to transport, so using a smaller vehicle saves fuel and road space.

- wider adoption of driver information systems (sat nav plus real-time traffic data) to give drivers advance warning of where the jams exist and give them a chance to take alternative routes, rather than joining a queue and finding it's already too late to go a different way

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

How on earth does a GPS device know how important my journey is, or how much of a choice I had in whether to make it or not?

OllyK

Just for your benefit here's the smileys missing from my previous post
And here are a few for this one

OllyK

Seems I get taken serious even with the smilies!


I appreciate the pending road charging issue is not a pleasant one, but surely we can have a little humour along the way, you've gotta laugh or you'll cry!

Diablo

Correct, albeit those 80 miles would have an lower average cost per mile than your 8.

TelBoy

Andy - all very eloquent, but if you don't mind me asking, why would the Government give your suggestions anything other than a cursory glance when this is in fact, a brilliant tax-raising scheme above all else? Do you think the Government actually care about the issues you've highlighted - at *all*, never mind in connection with a conjestion pricing policy?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Sorry I've just spent rather a long time thinking about this issue and getting my thoughts down on paper, it's left me a bit tetchy. Maybe I should hop in the scooby and go for a lunchtime blast down some twisty country lanes to work off stress

<ducks>

(ps. thanks to all those of you who have PM'd me with your support - though I think the good folks over on SIDC are still ahead )

Leslie

Road pricing is just what the doctor ordered for this scheming bunch who run this country.

Not only will they make barrowloads of money out of it to throw at the useless lefty quangos and other jobs for the boys, but they will be able to find out where we have been whenever they want, which is all part of the grand future plan!

GCollier,

We have been paying through the nose for years now for the right to use the roads, £6 Billion is used to maintain and improve the road system, which is why it is in such a poor state, and the other £34 billion goes into general taxation! Why are you inferring that we are not paying for the inferior road system that we "enjoy" at the moment?

This country seriously needs to improve our infrastructure, especially the road system.

Les

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I don't mind at all - and I too question whether or not they actually care.

I don't think it's a 'brilliant' tax raising scheme, though - I think it's a blatantly obvious one, the proposals behind it being so full of holes as to be laughable.

At the end of the day, though, the choice is between doing nothing at all (in which case I've definitely achieved nothing), and doing something. I choose the latter; an evening spent putting my thoughts on paper seems like time well spent compared to the alternative, which is to spend yet another evening sitting on my ****, swilling beer in front of the TV.

TelBoy

Ah well then, if that's the only alternative - crack on!!

OllyK

I think your efforts are worth while, and when I get a mo I'll send off a letter as well. I will use yours as the basis, but I'd like to try and get it down to a 1 - 1.5 pages long as I fear that MP eyes (assuming it ever gets beyond a lacky) will be glazing over by that point!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

What really touched a nerve was Dr Who on Sat evening, with the Daleks having taken over a TV satellite in order to make humankind spend all their time transfixed by TV shows instead of progressing as a society. I couldn't help but spot the irony as I put aside the PC and sat there glued to it!

warrenm2

Also no one has yet discussed the issue of displacement - the situation that when people are disincentivised to do one thing, they still do it, just a different way. In this case, people will stop using busy roads, and use less busy ones - with guess what startling result? Yes! They now get busy! And dont forget, these currently less busy roads are like that for a reason - cos they dont go where people want them, and they are slow! So the overall effect is to reduce further the efficiency of the road network whilst increasing the tax take to the Treasury, AND monitoring your every move (and the speed you're moving at), AND having to introduce a huge IT scheme to bill people for it (AND dont forget all those civil servants to employ). So many birds with just the one stone! Add in ID cards.......

Dave Hughes

Makes me wonder how long it will be before your car will issue you with speeding tickets as you go along...makes me very sad all this

Life in so-called "Great" Britian gets less bearable every day

Considering we go around the world starting wars in the name of freedom, we dont seem to be enjoying much of it here at home do we.

OllyK

Mmm - demolition man:

"Bzzzz you are fined 2 credits for breach of the moralities code"

Ray T

Just wondering if: Diplomatic, government (mi5 etc) forces, police, would be having this precise tracking (targeting) devices fitted. i'm sure the answer is yes of course!!?


ray t

suprabeast

well yes this is the other thing, the mp's will claim that it is risky for them to be tracked therefore they will not have these devices fitted and they will enjoy cheap petrol and no extra road charging costs

chiark

Again, write to your own minister, not Darling. Your own minister has a responsibility to you - Darling doesn't...

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

... which, of course, is the crux of the problem

Harry_Boy

Quick update - I have received an acknowledgement in this morning's post from my local MP, thanking me for my letter (Andy's format, as discussed at the start of this thread).

My MP has (apparently) written to Dr Stephen Ladyman MP, Minister of State for the Department of Transport, regarding the issues raised in my letter.

Anyone else received a confirmation?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Glad to hear it - any more yet? My MP has typically taken a few weeks to reply, but has always done so eventually.

Let's just hope the contents of your MP's letter is along the lines of, "well, how CAN you possibly justify such a dumb idea in the face of such obvious counter-arguments", rather than "watch out, those irresponsible motorists are whining again, the sooner they're all priced off the road the better. See you at the Lodge next Tuesday"

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

There is now an online petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/roadtax/ - I'd encourage anyone with an interest in the subject to sign it. It only takes a moment and, like writing to your MP, it can't do any harm. There are nearly 3000 signatures on it already.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

UPD: I've just had a reply back from my MP. Apparently he's looking forward to reading my letter properly.

Isn't that nice to know?

Anyone else heard anythng back yet?

Bottomfeeder

I was thanked for taking time to write, and my letter is being passed onto the shadow transport secretary.