hawkthescoobslayer

fastest thing ive ever driven.......

it's all in the name 211mph


edited to add (although it's not really "normal" and it's not 20k)

Deep Singh

I think there is a big difference between a car that can pull certain speeds everyday and a HIGHLY modified 500BHP Scoob which is going to have ceratin parts going bang all the time ie gearbox, drive train etc. Also probably needs to be run on super duper fuel, have 10 gauges to monitor everything, takes up 50% of your time constantly fiddling with it. I'm afraid thats no good for people who have more important things to do with their lives.

Deep

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

seen 175 mph in a 996 turbo and 190mph in an unrestricted RS6

matchmaker

V12 Jaguar XJS. Completely effortless 140+ mph on th M6. Not as much fun, though, as 130 mph in a mates Jaguar 3.4 Mk II on the M8. The sound track was to die for!

Lou x

no your not wrong, your just an ****.

I made a mistake sorry, I am female after all. haha

it was just a basic tvr cerbera.

it was to take the groom to the wedding not the bride.

sorry for the mistake, at least one dip**** got to get on the bandwagon though lol

Pavlo

Yes that was in a straight line, I think it will do pretty well on track too. We will see how it does in it's current form on the 25th at Rockingham as I am entered in the Time Attack. At the speeds you can reach at the 1/4 mile the power to drag ratio will make a significant difference. The Westfield guy was not happy his car was still in the 11s at Elvington (nearly 10s mind you) and was going on about how fast it would be when it's sorted.

I also note that the R500's "500hp/ton" power to weight ratio is without a driver, which makes a significant change on a 420kg (ish) car, much more than on a tip top anyway.

The full bodied cars like SR3, XTR and Juno are certainly quicker on track, but they become even more impracticle on the road.

Paul

hades

Both those thoughts had crossed my mind.

The other thing is (IIRC) the Superlight R500 hits rev limiter in top at mid 140s, wheras I guess you car is still going very strong at that speed. I know the lesser powered superlight / superlight R can be at ~130mph banging into the rev limit in top for a fair proportion of the Revett Straight at Snetterton, for example.

Perspective

An R500 will lap most tracks quicker than an XTR, though the SR3 and especially the Juno will lap quicker on most circuits. In the dry you will not get near an R500 on any UK circuit, even with 500HP. Give it a go, and enjoy trying, but rest assured you will loose!

A drag race is different of course, but upto 100MPH and I would suggest 130MPH you would need a hell of a lot more than 500HP to keep up with an R500. The new CSR is supposed to do 60 in 2.8, so you will get a feel for just how fast the super tuned Caterhams are, and on a dry tack no road car will lap faster, even the M400 is slower and that has 425HP, a fantastic chasis and is much lighter than a scooby, and yours I would suggest.

The R500 is a track car first and an extemely fast road car second. Over 130MPH it runs out of puff quite quickly as its about as efficient as a brick, but under than it eats big boost cars for breaky

Deep Singh

D'ont you know a Scoob is the fastest car in all situations EVER!

john banks

Perspective, did you notice Pavlo's 0-140 in 11 seconds?

Pavlo

We will see how it goes, I think a fast track, like a full GP track the R500 may lose some of that advantage. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Seven replicas, and I almost built one myself, but decided I needed a roof for now.

For reference my Scoob has hit 107.5 mph in 7 seconds, on it's way to a 10.79@131 1/4 mile. Since then it has managed a 10.63@135mph but I have no information for the 1/8th mile, but I would estimate the 0-100 to be around 6.5 seconds or less. Engine dynamics/response are certainly not as good as a revvy N/A engine at the moment, and I suspect that to get a little closer I would have to lose some power (smaller turbo) and/or start using ALS. From a handling point of view it could be better if I went to the trouble of putting a cage in the car and doing something to widen the track. But with the latest suspension and diffs it is pretty amazing on the road.

I also used to drive it every day, almost without fail. Now it sits on the drive most days, but it makes driving it that little bit more special when I can.

Paul

Nevetas

Lovin' your work Paul!

Rioja

comming back to the original question; why not go rearly old skool! escort mk1 rs2000/mexico, hillman avenger tiger, lotus cortina, chevette hs etc. these cars are enormous fun to drive and after a modern car will scare the hell out of you! also lack of power steering will make your forarms ache just like a go-kart!

Squadron-Leader

I was once in a Cav V6 doing 142mph on the M4 near Windsor.

I was a passenger in the car while a Police driver (on Police business) took it through its paces. Very smooth, and it just kept pulling and pulling and pulling.

Never been anywhere near that speed in my Scoobs.

J.

Perspective

Yes I can see its a very fast car, with 500HP and 4WD traction it should be, but track driving is VERY different to drag runs, and it was this I was talking about and I feel sure Pavlo will appreciate.

The R500 will run out of puff, but at 140ish, but its cornering, handling and breaking is a different league to a saloon car, even with a 1000HP. A race prepped Caterham lapped seconds quicker than a 915HP Evo on the Track and Race Cars test track as one example of the difference between power and lap speed. All thoses horses need to be put down and weight and physics can not be bypassed I am affraid.

As a track tool the R500 should win, on a drag run it shoud still win, but over 130 it may well loose to a 500HP scooby. The Ultima GTR which now holds the 0-100-0 crown had 680HP and much less weight that a scooby and was still less than half a second quicker than the R500 in that test.

Its built as the ultimate 7 track car and is extremely focused, a Scooby has 4 seats and can pootle around which an R500 Evo can't. A Noble M400 should also beat a 500HP scooby for dinner, power to weight it much better and again its not designed to be a saloon car first so is not compromised.

Big horse power is impressive and 4WD traction is great for drag runs, I am sure Pavlo's car is lovely, but its not going to beat an R500 Evo well driven on British circuits. Stick it on Le Mans it may be different as top speed becomes and issue, though gearing may also be a challenge there for the scooby and in any case my car of choice there would be an M400...

The Chief

I've done an indicated 155mph in my boggo standard A6 it was downhill but fun all the same!

The Chief

And at 18 years old.... 34mph on my Suzuki Love moped complete with front basket and flower decals for added effect when it was only supposed to do 30mph i was well impressed!

fast bloke

I used to have a (road legal) 6R4 tuned and geared for rally cross. Never had it dynoed, but the garage that sold it to me told me it was 700BHP. Must have been similar car to your mate, cos it maxed out just over 100, but it got there in about 6 seconds I was looking for one as a project car recently. Couldn't believe I sold the last one for £800.00

Billgtt

My dad used to own a Tony Pond ex-works 6R4 many moons ago. Was a feckin animal. He ended up selling it because he scared the **** out of him. It was dyno'd at 424bhp and was geared to hit 60 in 3.2 and 100 in (I think) 5.9

It's just a shame I was too young to fully appreciate it at the time. All I knew was "Daddy had a racing car" lol

fast bloke

- you just can't appreciate a 6R4 until you have been there

Billgtt

Definatly. I remember going in it as a passenger on more than one occasion and it was a bit on the lively side

There's a couple of pics of it here from when my dad owned it:

http://www.rtoc.org/library/file.asp?id=22021

http://www.rtoc.org/library/file.asp?id=22022

rb5ban91r

audi s3 215bhp quick and great round corners mind you this one me mate had is on 19's and dropped on its ****.

or now i know what u might say

ford mondeo turbo diesel ( hire car) and an estate ... pal this thing surprised me no end ... massive torque and we had 140mph out of it no probs.


vauxhall astra bertone turbo y reg, had one as again a hire car for 2 weeks... mate i was glad to give it back i'd of lost my licence..... very very quick but handling seems very flitty at high speed..

old skool well for me r5gt turbo man i loved them cars never had one but god damn they seem like rockets or another one os those ford rs mexico's dunno how quick they are but RWD thats gotta be fun ...

john banks

Perspective, I know what you mean about the cornering/track work, but I'm puzzled about the R500 "on a drag run it shoud still win" when the times are slower than Pavlo's, even to 100 mph as far as I can see?

Re Nobles, I have played with a few at Knockhill (not the M400), detuned to 400 BHP for reliability. Driver comes into it, but that would be a disadvantage where I am concerned, at the beginning of the session their cornering speeds were far higher, once I'd sorted myself out they were slightly quicker (they are lighter with a nice chassis and better tyres for the track), however, in the straights I was making it up again and in terms of reliability I expected it would be my car that would pop if anything, but the Noble engine appeared to let go and release oil everywhere.

What does this say - perhaps with average drivers a 400 BHP Scooby can do quite well against a normal noble. What would a 600 BHP one do with good tyres and track suspension against an M400? Only thing is making the 600 BHP Scooby hold together in track use and having a nice powerband LOL.

I don't think Scoobies are the best in the world BTW They really suit as a cheap to fix bumpy, muddy back road car.

Perspective

Firstly I am not aware of Pavlo's 0-100 times so can't comment in detail and if its faster than 6.92 seconds then Pavlo's car would win. Happy to be corrected on that point.

I don't understanded your point about the Nobles being detuned for reliability to 400HP? Only the M400 is over 400HP, and you said you never drove that one, every other Noble is mid 300HP or less, so are you saying they are detuning it by 50ish HP upwards?? All M400's leave the factory with 425HP and none are detuned by the factory?

Your point about drivers is very valid, it always makes the difference, but put that same driver in an M400 on a track and then a 500HP scooby and I am sorry the scooby, in the dry would loose and here is why.

The M400 has:
A better power to weight ratio
A much better chasis
A much lower centre of gravity
A far more balanced power delivery
A much lower weight

Also, every scooby I have driven has had understeer to a lesser or much greater extent at the limit, but I again appreciate I have not driven all of them. I don't like quoting magazines, as what one says another will disagree with, but you will see a common theme. On a race circuit, in the dry, there is no genuine road car than will live with an M400, anywhere. 4WD is a BIG advantage in the early stages of a drag run, none at all when your over 50MPH ish. RWD is a better set up for circuit runs as it dose not display the level of understeer common in most 4WD's at the limit and provides better balance and often weight distribution.

The M400 is quicker than the standard Nobles, much quicker on a circuit, maybe 3 seonds or more at Knockhill. HP should be seen for what it is and not as a replacement for balance, agility, breaking and feel, something the Noble has in spades and something that is vital in a fast track car.

And one final point, I don't have the blinkers on here. My day to day car is currently an E46 M3, so I am not wearing a Caterham or Noble hat, but I have driven the Noble at length and owned an R500. I have also driven many scoobs, evos, skylines etc, and loved them all to a lesser or greater extent, but I am trying to provide an informed perspective on what makes a car fast...

Pavlo

Perspective. It was John Bank's own car that was Detuned to 400hp.

As for the power to weight, I think you need to check your sums, as a 1200kg scoob with 500hp has a 416hp/ton power to weight. There are quite a few scoobs that weight only 1200kg, and some weight notably less.

But, the Noble SHOULD be the faster car on a track, it has everything going for it. But that doesn't mean it will be faster on track, a well setup scoob has a sort of idiot proof quality about it, wheras the Noble seems very much on edge from seeing it go round a track. Perhaps it is ultimately faster, but I looks tricky to drive to it's full potential. My scoob on the otherhand puts it's power down with relative ease, but it certainly takes the right setup to do it with that much power.

I also noticed you mention the m400 being much quicker on track, given the change in tyres on the M400 I would hope so too.

Paul

Perspective

OK, thanks for the clarification on the 400HP thing.

Power to weight is also closer than I imagined, my you have shed some weight, but as you point out its one of the many elements that goes to making a car quick on a race circuit. I think you will find that an M400 is very well set up for track use and has a very benign character most of the time. Not sure why they seem skittish or on the edge as you call it, its not my experience of how they handle on the limits, though any car which is balanced at the limits of its envelope will be on edge slightly I suppose.

Putting the power down is not an issue either as I have found the Noble to be extremely competent in this area unless hooligan tactics are applied of course.

Seems we are agreeing however, the Noble should be quicker, but on occasion it might be closer than it should...

john banks

Indeed, it is nice to take a 4 door saloon and mix it with (non-M400) Nobles on track is all I was saying Pavlo has already clarified the misunderstanding re 400 BHP... Modified yes, but I was on Subaru parts bin engine, gearbox, suspension, and Goodyear F1 tyres. It is setup deliberately to understeer more, without this effort it would power oversteer after the front diff went in, not ideal for an average driver on the road.

My road trim is about 370 BHP/ton and about 310 lbft/ton, used daily, on Optimax. It is more than full weight, full interior, nice stereo, air con, heavier gearbox etc. It is so incredibly tame compared with AndyF's or Pavlo's cars it is not comparable...

Adam M

perspective,

out of interest you need not shed that much weight to achieve 1200kgs.

The classic import cars in standard form are between 1230 and 1270kgs.

an air con compressor and two heat exchangers, two catalytic converters, some sound deadening, a cast exhaust manifold, and you aren't far off.

Then there are spare tyres, interior and light weight body panels, as well as reduced unsprung mass components such as brake disks and calipers.

Deep Singh

In terms of ultimate times on track etc I'm not going to argue the toss. In terms of what makes a better fast car the Noble lords it. I've driven a M400 at length and cannot begin to describe the low down pulling ability of this car. It will fly from 20mph in 4th! I was approaching roundabouts in 3rd at 20 mph and then flooring it to see 100mph coming up very fast.
Try this in a big turbo Scoob/Evo and you'd probably be there a few days later.

You can argue the milliseconds on track times until the cars come home, but the Noble has an engine that can deliver in any gear at any rpm instantly, there is no discernible lag. I doubt that can be said of a Scoob with 500 BHP.

What I'm trying to say is the Noble has power delivery that a similar BHP/tonne Scoob c'ant match. And since I d'ont live on a drag strip that makes it the faster car, for me.

Had it not been for the god awful offset pedals that hurt my knee I would have one in my garage now

Deep

Perspective

You know what, that and the spaceframe bar running just where my heal wants to reside are the 2 things putting me off signing on the dotted line!