RON, see the Power Station dyno-day figures under Midlands below. I ran 303bhp on Gruppe-S headers with my 2.5 and Floyd ran 333bhp on ported OEM headers with his 2.0. Our runs were no more than 10 mins apart. Our cars are quite similar, apart from the obvious.

Note that in the low-to-mid range I have substantially more bhp than just about anybody, but I lose out on the top-end

I think I have a top-end restriction, probably in the induction, but on these figures ported OEM headers can flow quite a lot of power And they probably spool earlier than Gruppe-S, too.

See Floyd's thread in Projects.

Richard.

 

have you found out the reason for a breakdown in the HT system yet??

Andy

 

I lost about 30 BHP and 20 lbft and gained nothing low down with 20G/2.5 on ported OEM headers with aftermarket uppipe. I was glad to get the Gruppe-S back on once the collector was welded up.

Richard, I thought you were deliberately capping the power because of insurance and injectors, and the torque because of the gearbox? I would have thought you would be looking for more like 350 BHP with headers and 16G setup to its potential on rollers that do 333 BHP with a VF35? My project was a bit different as the only changes going to 2.5 were headers and STi heads from a 2.0 setup with OEM headers that already did 406 BHP (albeit with NF), so everything was spot on from the word go and it just had gobs of torque in addition.

 

So basically John you're saying that I 'need' a decent set of headers..... are the gruppe 's' ones 'the' ones to have by choice??
I was getting them off a guy on here, but he's changed his mind, so i can now go to whom i wish to get some...

 

Like all restrictions, that 30 BHP might become far smaller if you are shooting for less. Just opinion here, at 300 BHP, there seems little gain from headers, at 350 BHP it is quite obvious, at over 400-450 BHP it is crazy not too.

 

In that case, I might go with what I've got at the moment, that way when I want a bit more, there's an easy-ish way to get some eh!! that is assuming that I need more once it's done anyway!!

Cheers John..

 

At least the OEM ones don't leak, or have the wrap steaming on wet mornings when it is warming up.... mine looks like a kettle sometimes. Looks like a kettle, sounds like a souped up Dyson on boost

 

Mine do steam though John, cos when i ported em i ground all the lugs and crap off the outside and wrapped em!!
I thought it was on fire the other day!! thankfully it was wet headers... DOH!

 

With regards insurance you might find it cheaper to insure it as a competition car. When I enquired about a 2.5 they were n't bother aslong as I had a competition licence and entered a sprint series, £45 in total and then you don't compete.

Mark

 

Thats rediculous Mark... might be worth looking into though!

 

Sorry when I say £45 that's the cost of the licence and reg fee's, the insurance was about £600 with open modifications and limited to 6k miles a year.

Sorry for the confusion

 

No Mark, I got what you meant first time round, you can't insure you're little finger for £45!!

 

Right, i've now sourced a few more bit's, and have learnt a rather silly, but invaluable lesson, when i dummy fitted the intercooler, i re-fitted the original one, and somehow 'forgot' to do up the pipe onto the turbo, so when i ventured out last night, i did the routine warm up 5 miles, then hit boost, and off pooped the pipe! (DOH!) only then did it hit me, 1. it was dark, 2, all i had was the tool roll in the boot, 3. no mobile signal, 4, about 3 miles from home at this point..... needless to say, my legs ache today!!
Oh well..... that'll teach me to check in the future eh!!

Looking at actually making a trip to get the rings, shells etc, along with gaskets n stuff, i'll never remember everything if i do it over the phone......

 

Well, I've been a busy boy today, got up this mornign and decided to swap the gearbox's, and also fit the lightened flywheel and new clutch, what a swine of a job that is, didn't quite get the car high enough, hence I struggled, and then to really make my day, the gearbox was stuck as if it were welded to the engine, it came off eventually, so here we are, then end of the day, and the STI box is in, and all bolted up, but needs all the odds and sods doing, thats for tomorrow afternoon, gotta go and see some cutomers in the morning, then I can play again!!!

Flippin heck my back aches!!

 

We have all been there, and it will heal-over in about a years time just ready for when you fit the 6 speeder...
You just can't believe how solid the corrosion is when splitting the box for the first time! Mine took 2 hours to prise apart.

Graham.

 

I left mine just hanging there whilst I went and had lunch, and surprise surprise it was still there when I got back, another thing I learnt was to get the clutch fork fitted asap, cos I made the mistake of bolting it all up tight, only to find...... that the fork was bolted up aswell! DOH!

 

Ron, are you selling off 2 gearboxes now?

Bob

 

the lad who did my clutch had heat on my dowel things to help free the box

 

Dunno Bob, the job is finished, and lets just say there are issues..... i doubt i'll sell the box that came out, it has the 'sick' into fifth probel, so not ideal to sell!!

 

Right, having nearly killed myself fitting this gearbox, i've decided I can't live with it, anyone want a box for sprints???

might have to try and source a flippin 6'er.....

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...94#post4677094

 

So guy's, i could do with some advice, having had problems with the gearbox, i am now trying to be realistic about this whole thing, i have worked out kind of what this is gonna cost, and what with the insurance issues, and the fact that i don't use the car much, i am wondering if i can truly justify the expenxe of it, i feel that the transmission is such an important aspect of the 2.5 idea, and based on the fact that that alone, for a 6spd anyway is another 2k, that might be the straw that breaks the camels back.....


Your thoughts please....

 

Ron:
I really understand the dilema
I too only use my Sti for 3000 miles max and 11 hill climb meetings, and the costs are very hard to justify.
To go faster will need some more mods as 400 bhp is very 'average' in my racing class.
To go further (I have 407 atmoment) the trans will need a big change.

It comes down to you true asperations.
A weekend warrior with 450 x 400 motor will need a good trans.
A 6 speeder can be had for diy installation for £1400 (inc rear diff)
A bullet-proof 5 speeder will be about 3 times that (and no diff)

Soon my trans will cry enough with the drag starts it gets and the stick tyres it has and the 6 speeder will be the only economical choice in my case.

I'm not sure there are any other options!

I will read this thread with interest

Graham.

 

i have been chewing sum thougts over today
my car is away having its engine looked at

i know its dead, but we need to see how bad the damage is,
anyway, its about £1500 ish for a recon 2.0 block
which happens to be the same as the 2.5 new blocks ?

i am considering a 2.5 bottom end, with a quick base map set to the parts i allready have

ie: 440`s, sti8 fuel pump. standerd top mount, vf23 blahh blahh
it wont be a rocket, but i will be back on the road with a 2.5 lump, which in the future when i change the turbo and fit a fmic etc etc, will give me easy power increases with just a remap?

should give the gearbox an easy time as well, ovb 911 cant do this method as he races his, but a daily driver should be fine?

 

I'm no expert, but won't the 440's max out too soon? BUT, on a 'low level' map and low boost you would have a great base to start on and it will be usable from the start.

Sounds to me, insurance aside, the 2.5 is the sensible way forward if the 2 litre is done for.

Graham.

 

the car should technicaly be detuned anyway, probably pushing a little more then standerd in bhp wise?

i have never ever had a insurance company ask me for the torque increase
its always been the increase in BHP?

it might seem like a sensible route, but its also a more costly route, due to needing a new ecu and so forth, although i am tempted
i had planned to take my 2.0 to about 350bhp ish and leave it be
mods i had planned were a change of turbo and an ecu/remap and then i was going to leave it alone

350 on a 2.5 should last a fair bit longer then a stressed 2.0?
i had just not taken into acount the cost of a bottom end into my little power thoughts, when i planned this power hike out a few months back

 

This project is now officaially dead.....

Anyone want a stripped 2.5 ??

Or a TDO5/20G..??


ps, obviously if someones 2.0 ltr is already dead, and the insurance is not an issue for that person, then the 2.5 is the only way to go if you already have a few mods... part of my problem was that i had to buy nearly everything to go with it.......

 

This project is not completely dead, it has just moved from Dorset to Lancashire.

Many thanks to Ron (and JB) for finally helping me to make a decision on which way to go engine wise

Andrew...

 

Andrew:
Thread/pic/commentry please on the '2.5 conversion'
Graham.

 

HI Andrew,

Have you had a good look then..... i hope it survived the trip ok???

Have fun.


Ron.

 

Ron,

Everything arrived perfectly, as stated on 22B - fantastic service from UPS.

I will document the build, but it won't be until the nights start closing in and I've collected the rebuild parts I need.

Andrew...