E36 M3 factory Special
04 May 2005, 12:04 PM
#31
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The information came from a BMW dealer, it is not mocked up by anyone!
I agree that the power claims are hard to believe - and if someone else had posted this up, I would have said b0ll0cks too! As mentioned, the paperwork came from a BMW main dealer (hypotheticall for most of you!) why would they fake documentation?
I am willing to accept this could be a load of bull$hit - but the fact above is what confuses me!
Perhaps some pictures of the car will prove/disprove one way or another!
I agree that the power claims are hard to believe - and if someone else had posted this up, I would have said b0ll0cks too! As mentioned, the paperwork came from a BMW main dealer (hypotheticall for most of you!) why would they fake documentation?
I am willing to accept this could be a load of bull$hit - but the fact above is what confuses me!
Perhaps some pictures of the car will prove/disprove one way or another!
04 May 2005, 12:06 PM
#32
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FFS it can't be too difficult to fax the thing to BMW head office and ask if it's official? As J4cko said, you can print anything on a PC these days.
Personally I'm wary of the 666 Devil's Edition - that doesn't sound like staid, responsible Germans to me. Italians perhaps, but I just don't see Germans doing it, it's not in their character. Happy to be proved wrong.
Personally I'm wary of the 666 Devil's Edition - that doesn't sound like staid, responsible Germans to me. Italians perhaps, but I just don't see Germans doing it, it's not in their character. Happy to be proved wrong.
04 May 2005, 12:17 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
Personally I'm wary of the 666 Devil's Edition - that doesn't sound like staid, responsible Germans to me. Italians perhaps, but I just don't see Germans doing it, it's not in their character. Happy to be proved wrong.
I'm a little more sceptical now that I've seen the letter, seems like too few revs to produce that much power.
04 May 2005, 06:23 PM
#38
The latest Audi RS3, has a 4.2 litre V8, that manages 420 bhp, so 2 extra cylinders and an extra 1000 cc plus several years additional development will get you there.
04 May 2005, 06:48 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Cosworth427
Put it this way, even their current F1 engines can't make that much torque, let alone a 12 year old street engine.
It's a fake.
It's a fake.
04 May 2005, 08:02 PM
#40
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well I'll gladly be proved wrong Tony, but there is alot of people here saying this is ballcocks, and they're the kind of people who really know their engines.
I'm afraid I still say its false.....prove me wrong m8
I'm afraid I still say its false.....prove me wrong m8
04 May 2005, 08:13 PM
#41
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To make 420 HP at 6900 RPM, you need 318 lbs/ft of torque. That's well beyond any natural aspirated 3.2 litre engine. Ferrari's 3.6 litre V8 can only manage 275 lbs/ft. Honda 3.2 V6 manages 227 lbs/ft
BMW needs 5 litres to make over 300 lbs/ft of torque, think E39 M5
A modern 3.0 litre F1 engine makes 290 - 300 lbs/ft which is as about as much as you can get from an engine of that capacity. Power is made by making that torque at very high revs.
BMW needs 5 litres to make over 300 lbs/ft of torque, think E39 M5
A modern 3.0 litre F1 engine makes 290 - 300 lbs/ft which is as about as much as you can get from an engine of that capacity. Power is made by making that torque at very high revs.
04 May 2005, 11:34 PM
#42
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Cosworth, sorry, though you were thinking there was 370 lb/ft (as power graph shows pre and post trans) - didn't realise you were working it out from revs etc!
I will wait to see what BMW come back with, and also see the car in the flesh this week hopefully!
I will wait to see what BMW come back with, and also see the car in the flesh this week hopefully!
05 May 2005, 12:52 AM
#43
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on a different note, wonder if any American Engineers have seen this thread.
They'd never believe it in a million years, they struggle to produce 50bhp per 1000cc on their NA 'Sports Cars'!!!
They'd never believe it in a million years, they struggle to produce 50bhp per 1000cc on their NA 'Sports Cars'!!!
05 May 2005, 09:38 AM
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Maybe it's been bored/stroked (although the sheet doesn't mention this). My 4.2 V8 produces 350 lb/ft of torque, so 318 might be available from around 3.6-3.8 litres.
Edit: thinking about it, it might only be 320 lb/ft that my engine produces. AJP8.
Edit: thinking about it, it might only be 320 lb/ft that my engine produces. AJP8.
05 May 2005, 10:20 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by carl
Maybe it's been bored/stroked (although the sheet doesn't mention this). My 4.2 V8 produces 350 lb/ft of torque, so 318 might be available from around 3.6-3.8 litres.
Edit: thinking about it, it might only be 320 lb/ft that my engine produces. AJP8.
Edit: thinking about it, it might only be 320 lb/ft that my engine produces. AJP8.
I think that the 318 figure at 6900 wouldn't be its max torque, IYSWIM
05 May 2005, 03:44 PM
#49
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Like i say, I am willing to believe it is a fake, but need to find out why the main BMW dealer would have sent documentation, unforutnately, BMW are not up to typical German precision in responding to email/faxes!
Will also get pictures ASAP - the car definitely has a 6 spd box (which I believe was not standard), and will definitely spin 2 wheels in 3rd gear from standing start ( I have seen this)!
Will also get pictures ASAP - the car definitely has a 6 spd box (which I believe was not standard), and will definitely spin 2 wheels in 3rd gear from standing start ( I have seen this)!
05 May 2005, 04:18 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by TonyFlow
Will also get pictures ASAP - the car definitely has a 6 spd box (which I believe was not standard), and will definitely spin 2 wheels in 3rd gear from standing start ( I have seen this)!
05 May 2005, 04:48 PM
#52
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Speaking of low end torque, that "engine" is making alot of it there too. 270+ lbs ft at 2000 RPM. That 12 year old 3.x litre is defying physics and all internal combustion engine principles.
05 May 2005, 05:53 PM
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Why not get the guy to speak to BMW Customer Services in Bracknell. If h gives them the VIN number or original supplying number plate they should be able to pull off an original spec list from the computer.
I've never heard of the car and the docs look so-so, not up to other BMW official stuff from Germany I've seen but that doesnt prove it one way or another. I did hear a rumour that very wealthy individuals could approach BMW to make a race-spec M3 for racing pruposes only but thats only a rumour and I've never seen one.
Bear in mind the BMW UK dealerships are only franchises and with the usual salesman aplomb and arrogance they may have been presented with the docs and never checked up on it then sold it on with never checking the history.
I've heard of dealers selling the M3 GT2 as having uprated performance and adjusted engine internals which is complete b***ocks-some salesmen have told people BMW could produce docs to support this which they never could as the GT2 was really a short run of BMW Individual M3 Evos with different body parts and interior. As long as they make a sale they don't care.
I've never heard of the car and the docs look so-so, not up to other BMW official stuff from Germany I've seen but that doesnt prove it one way or another. I did hear a rumour that very wealthy individuals could approach BMW to make a race-spec M3 for racing pruposes only but thats only a rumour and I've never seen one.
Bear in mind the BMW UK dealerships are only franchises and with the usual salesman aplomb and arrogance they may have been presented with the docs and never checked up on it then sold it on with never checking the history.
I've heard of dealers selling the M3 GT2 as having uprated performance and adjusted engine internals which is complete b***ocks-some salesmen have told people BMW could produce docs to support this which they never could as the GT2 was really a short run of BMW Individual M3 Evos with different body parts and interior. As long as they make a sale they don't care.
Last edited by stone-islandM3; 05 May 2005 at 05:57 PM.
05 May 2005, 06:53 PM
#56
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cheers for that mate, will do!, thats the kind of response i wanted!
the bmw dealer that sent him the docs was not who supplied the car, so they had nothing to gain!
the bmw dealer that sent him the docs was not who supplied the car, so they had nothing to gain!
