I feel so helpless
25 April 2005, 11:54 AM
#32
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Its been put off to tomorrow morning now. My line manager has asked around and said it doesnt look good for me. 
But hes given a list of names to the investigators of people that they should talk to, to get my side accross. He'll be present tomorrow in the hearing.
Im just jumping around here now. Was ready to go for it today, but been reigned back. I even asked about doing it this afternoon but they wont be ready.
But hes given a list of names to the investigators of people that they should talk to, to get my side accross. He'll be present tomorrow in the hearing.Im just jumping around here now. Was ready to go for it today, but been reigned back. I even asked about doing it this afternoon but they wont be ready.
25 April 2005, 01:03 PM
#34
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I may have missed a few things here - and I know it's late in the day but:
- Are you in a union? If so CALL THEM NOW
- If not, talk to the CAB and get some professional advice TODAY
- Workplace bullying is not clear cut - your employer has a legal right to protect you whilst you are at your place of work - and that includes protection from bullying. As you've pointed out that this guy was a known trouble maker, then your employer would have A LOT of sticky questions to answer if it ever went to a tribunal.
- They are also legally required to have a clear grievance policy and to make sure that you know about it
- I don't know you from Adam - but is it possible that this bullying could have any racial/ religious/ disability etc basis
I've known of very similar cases to this before and people in your situation have often been issued with Final Written Warnings but not directly dismissed - it depends on the employer. Fighting on the premesis is usually classed as gross misconduct - but when it's linked to proven (and known) episodes of bullying then this has to be taken into account.
PLEASE go and get some proper advice - call the Union or CAB RIGHT NOW and get the support you need for tomorrow.
Good luck!
- Are you in a union? If so CALL THEM NOW
- If not, talk to the CAB and get some professional advice TODAY
- Workplace bullying is not clear cut - your employer has a legal right to protect you whilst you are at your place of work - and that includes protection from bullying. As you've pointed out that this guy was a known trouble maker, then your employer would have A LOT of sticky questions to answer if it ever went to a tribunal.
- They are also legally required to have a clear grievance policy and to make sure that you know about it
- I don't know you from Adam - but is it possible that this bullying could have any racial/ religious/ disability etc basis
I've known of very similar cases to this before and people in your situation have often been issued with Final Written Warnings but not directly dismissed - it depends on the employer. Fighting on the premesis is usually classed as gross misconduct - but when it's linked to proven (and known) episodes of bullying then this has to be taken into account.
PLEASE go and get some proper advice - call the Union or CAB RIGHT NOW and get the support you need for tomorrow.
Good luck!
25 April 2005, 01:44 PM
#36
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Good luck rr ww
I had a situation in my former job where I was about to lose my temper and reigned myself in at the last minute (this ***** of a boss was doing his usual best to wind me up to the max)
So instead of decking him, I stormed out leaving the room in a very mature manner
and slammed the door... hard 
He was following me (to dish out more abuse no doubt) and caught the full force of the heavy wooden door in his face. Knocked him out, and broke his nose and cheek-bone.
I was sacked later that day
My only regret was that I wish I'd done exactly what you did and that I hadn't relied on some poncy heavy oak door to do my dirty-work for me.
Never got the satisfaction of hitting the ***** myself
Good luck
I had a situation in my former job where I was about to lose my temper and reigned myself in at the last minute (this ***** of a boss was doing his usual best to wind me up to the max)
So instead of decking him, I stormed out leaving the room in a very mature manner
and slammed the door... hard He was following me (to dish out more abuse no doubt) and caught the full force of the heavy wooden door in his face. Knocked him out, and broke his nose and cheek-bone.
I was sacked later that day
My only regret was that I wish I'd done exactly what you did and that I hadn't relied on some poncy heavy oak door to do my dirty-work for me.
Never got the satisfaction of hitting the ***** myself
Good luck
25 April 2005, 01:55 PM
#37
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Just been couriered a letter confirming tomorrows details. It's such a mess. This is my first offence of any kind. They know what this guys like, yet they never got him before.
I took over a year to get this job. And here, 10 months later, Im 90% likely to get the sack by some Drugged up, toss*r! He's using the VERY system designed to protect me (and others) against me!
Good job life isnt fair
I took over a year to get this job. And here, 10 months later, Im 90% likely to get the sack by some Drugged up, toss*r! He's using the VERY system designed to protect me (and others) against me!
Good job life isnt fair
25 April 2005, 02:47 PM
#38
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That is such a bummer Do what DBW said go to the CAB and get some advise, from what I read you were picked on and you snapped when he done it again, and acted in self defence Don't let this be pushed to one side and forgotten about.Good Luck for the Morning
Cheers
Colin
26 April 2005, 08:59 AM
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There's a bloke where I work that always goes on about how he's "victimised" at work. Bullied and stuff.
Reality is he's a total *** who deserves everything he gets plus more.
Not suggesting the thread owner here is a tw&t, however not everything is how it seems.
Reality is he's a total *** who deserves everything he gets plus more.
Not suggesting the thread owner here is a tw&t, however not everything is how it seems.
26 April 2005, 09:08 AM
#43
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For a disciplinary you are entitled to take someone with you (workmate or Union rep or anyone really) they aren't allowed to say anything but they are there as a witness. If you take someone it shows at least that you are taking it seriously. You should tell the management beforhand that you are taking them.
Both take notes, this will intimidate the ******, and possibly the management. You will possibly find that the managers are scared of him too which is why nothing has happened to date.
Above all remain calm and collected at all times. Consider questions carefully and take your time to answer them. If anyone talks over you don't shout, stop and wait for them to finish, then continue.
If you can get the bully to shout or get more aggressive than you in the meeting (even if its only his attitude or raising his voice) this will work in your favour.
Might help if you wear a suit (unless you do anyway)
Best of luck mate, I have had to deal with a couple of similar cases (as a boss) and its not nice.
Both take notes, this will intimidate the ******, and possibly the management. You will possibly find that the managers are scared of him too which is why nothing has happened to date.
Above all remain calm and collected at all times. Consider questions carefully and take your time to answer them. If anyone talks over you don't shout, stop and wait for them to finish, then continue.
If you can get the bully to shout or get more aggressive than you in the meeting (even if its only his attitude or raising his voice) this will work in your favour.
Might help if you wear a suit (unless you do anyway)
Best of luck mate, I have had to deal with a couple of similar cases (as a boss) and its not nice.
26 April 2005, 10:53 AM
#45
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You could do worse.
Fair bit of advice in this thread, including a happy ending! But it's 500 posts, and several months long!
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=317593
Fair bit of advice in this thread, including a happy ending! But it's 500 posts, and several months long!
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=317593
26 April 2005, 12:01 PM
#46
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Found this:
Are there exceptions to the statutory grievance procedures, for example if the employee refuses to follow the procedure claiming to be sick or intimidated?
Yes the statutory grievance procedures do not apply if there are reasonable grounds to believe complying with them would result in threats for example because the employer is violent, abusive or behaves unacceptably. Similarly the employee does not have to follow the procedure if the can prove that factors beyond the employee's control made it impossible to go through procedures for example genuine sickness. If it can be shown that they were malingering to avoid going through the procedures then any compensation the employee receives will be reduced. If there are issues of national security the procedures do not have to be followed either.
Workplace bullying is NOT straightforward - and whatever happens today you need some professional advice!
Are there exceptions to the statutory grievance procedures, for example if the employee refuses to follow the procedure claiming to be sick or intimidated?
Yes the statutory grievance procedures do not apply if there are reasonable grounds to believe complying with them would result in threats for example because the employer is violent, abusive or behaves unacceptably. Similarly the employee does not have to follow the procedure if the can prove that factors beyond the employee's control made it impossible to go through procedures for example genuine sickness. If it can be shown that they were malingering to avoid going through the procedures then any compensation the employee receives will be reduced. If there are issues of national security the procedures do not have to be followed either.
Workplace bullying is NOT straightforward - and whatever happens today you need some professional advice!
26 April 2005, 08:46 PM
#48
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Went in a suit. Was going to anyway. Confused the HR lady as she didnt recognise me at first 
Said my bit. Admitted several things because there's no point in denying it if its on CCTV is there. Gave the explanations. They said theirs. They were genuinely surprised by what I was saying about previous. Seems the other victim never said anything either. "Why didnt you report it before" they asked me. "We cant do anything about it if we dont know" My manager backed me (Which was nice) They seemed to be listening.
Goiong back tomorrow for (I hope) the outcome. Still not sure which way its going to go. At least I gave it a go.
TheBigMan
No offence taken, I know what you mean. Some people do try and make a rod for their back and then complain afterwards. Like to think that doesnt describe me though. 
Thanks again for all the support. Will give the final outcome when I get it.
Said my bit. Admitted several things because there's no point in denying it if its on CCTV is there. Gave the explanations. They said theirs. They were genuinely surprised by what I was saying about previous. Seems the other victim never said anything either. "Why didnt you report it before" they asked me. "We cant do anything about it if we dont know" My manager backed me (Which was nice) They seemed to be listening.Goiong back tomorrow for (I hope) the outcome. Still not sure which way its going to go. At least I gave it a go.
TheBigMan
No offence taken, I know what you mean. Some people do try and make a rod for their back and then complain afterwards.
Like to think that doesnt describe me though. Thanks again for all the support. Will give the final outcome when I get it.
27 April 2005, 11:41 AM
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Well.
Im now un-employed. As is the other guy. Physical Confrontation is Gross Mis-Conduct.
"If you'd told us before about the situation, we could have stopped it."
Standard 5 days to appeal. Told them I probably wouldnt "Whats the point, Im not going to change the story. Facts will be the same, so ultimately no point in wasting my time and yours"
They suggested I go home and think about it before deciding.
Anyway, whos got any jobs going. Want 7:30-16:30 5 days a week and something like £100K a year if possible.
Im now un-employed. As is the other guy. Physical Confrontation is Gross Mis-Conduct.
"If you'd told us before about the situation, we could have stopped it."
Standard 5 days to appeal. Told them I probably wouldnt "Whats the point, Im not going to change the story. Facts will be the same, so ultimately no point in wasting my time and yours"
They suggested I go home and think about it before deciding.
Anyway, whos got any jobs going. Want 7:30-16:30 5 days a week and something like £100K a year if possible.
27 April 2005, 11:58 AM
#54
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I'm really, genuinely sorry to hear this, you retaliated to physical abuse in the heat of the moment, and get the sack for it.
The only problem is - as far as the law is concerned, such an act can be construed as gross misconduct and allowing you to stay may give the wrong signal to the other employees.
Yeesh...
Personally I would appeal. Future employers are going to want to know why you lost your job and gross misconduct for assault ain't going to look good, plus you will get no benefit either.
They are absolutely right, you should've informed them of the bullying, and it does weaken your case. However, recognising this fact, and acknowledging it may help. You are appealing against dismissal now, so you can show a (hopefully) unblemished record and get your line managers support. Ask for a final written warning and a review after 6 months rather than dismissal.
Good Luck whatever you decide mate, I really hope it goes well for you
The only problem is - as far as the law is concerned, such an act can be construed as gross misconduct and allowing you to stay may give the wrong signal to the other employees.
Yeesh...
Personally I would appeal. Future employers are going to want to know why you lost your job and gross misconduct for assault ain't going to look good, plus you will get no benefit either.
They are absolutely right, you should've informed them of the bullying, and it does weaken your case. However, recognising this fact, and acknowledging it may help. You are appealing against dismissal now, so you can show a (hopefully) unblemished record and get your line managers support. Ask for a final written warning and a review after 6 months rather than dismissal.
Good Luck whatever you decide mate, I really hope it goes well for you
27 April 2005, 12:10 PM
#55
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Personally I would appeal. Future employers are going to want to know why you lost your job and gross misconduct for assault ain't going to look good, plus you will get no benefit either.
They are absolutely right, you should've informed them of the bullying, and it does weaken your case. However, recognising this fact, and acknowledging it may help. You are appealing against dismissal now, so you can show a (hopefully) unblemished record and get your line managers support. Ask for a final written warning and a review after 6 months rather than dismissal.
They are absolutely right, you should've informed them of the bullying, and it does weaken your case. However, recognising this fact, and acknowledging it may help. You are appealing against dismissal now, so you can show a (hopefully) unblemished record and get your line managers support. Ask for a final written warning and a review after 6 months rather than dismissal.
Good luck
27 April 2005, 12:57 PM
#56
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OK - Get some Legal advice - like right now!
Personally I would agree with the previous comments and appeal but any good employment lawyers will advise (we've used Shoosmiths for all of our employment issues).
Best of luck! Mark
Personally I would agree with the previous comments and appeal but any good employment lawyers will advise (we've used Shoosmiths for all of our employment issues).
Best of luck! Mark
27 April 2005, 12:57 PM
#57
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They've said they will give me a reference. As they said this isnt about the quality of my work. And they were happy with that. Just the way I dealt with the problem
Any appeal will be held with the MD, and the investigation team will not be involved so as (as I understand it) not to predjudice it.
Right now, Im not sure what to do. I can walk away, with a reference availiable. Im lucky to not have overheads as such. And for a while now this "Dream Job" hasnt been how I expected it to be. Promises made during my interview havent been fulfilled. I was amongst several people not to even get an Inflation based pay rise. No one has ever explained why.
The main manager constantly swears in his meetings. And has his head in the sand about the problems. And my God there are problems. I mean, people even tell him about them. Maybe he should work for Labour
Maybe Im trying to put a positive spin on it. But as one door closes hopefully another one will open. Might even have a nice pile of cash behind it.
Anyway thanks for all the advice on here. Writing these posts have been kind of therapeutic. May have ended up the same result but Ive still got my health and its quite a nice day outside
Rich
(rr_ww)
Any appeal will be held with the MD, and the investigation team will not be involved so as (as I understand it) not to predjudice it.
Right now, Im not sure what to do. I can walk away, with a reference availiable. Im lucky to not have overheads as such. And for a while now this "Dream Job" hasnt been how I expected it to be. Promises made during my interview havent been fulfilled. I was amongst several people not to even get an Inflation based pay rise. No one has ever explained why.
The main manager constantly swears in his meetings. And has his head in the sand about the problems. And my God there are problems. I mean, people even tell him about them. Maybe he should work for Labour
Maybe Im trying to put a positive spin on it. But as one door closes hopefully another one will open. Might even have a nice pile of cash behind it.
Anyway thanks for all the advice on here. Writing these posts have been kind of therapeutic. May have ended up the same result but Ive still got my health and its quite a nice day outside
Rich
(rr_ww)
Last edited by rr_ww; 11 May 2005 at 10:59 AM.
27 April 2005, 01:01 PM
#59
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May have ended up the same result but Ive still got my health and its quite a nice day outside
