kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

roybacers? and here you are complaining about illiteracy. And you seem to be slagging off 99% of impreza drivers on this forum (of course you never put your foot down or exceed the limit) exactly what is the point of owning an impreza if you are going to drive it like a doddery old ****?

borat52

You have been to the school of blair, twist your opinion into fact all the time, then when you caught back down and claim you didnt say what was inferred.
But we will blame that on the fact i am illiterate - smear the argument by throwing insults, thats the best way to deal with it. I tell you what, just brand me a racist **** while your at it, then you will have destroyed my credibility entirely.

Are you making ANY positive contribution here - or just out to rubbish every opinion, thought or point of veiw out there, without putting any thoughts forward yourself?
This is a stupid argument, lets drop the personal insults and if you want to post on here and talk about this sensibly then i think most people would be happy to do so.
If not I suggest you sell your subaru and go and buy something a little more middle of the road where the owners community do not make you feel so ashamed to drive your car.
But then again why take any notice of me i 'seem to have a problem with literacy' after all.

Back to topic:
I want cheaper fuel!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I think I have just solved this argument. You go to user CP, add pslewis to your ignore list and then all of a sudden there are no more daft posts to read

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

who is ps lewis?

mart360

prehaps it should read PSLewis is universally hated..

I asked you before not to take this thread off topic pete, but you in your own blinkered "Mr big i am" style choose to ignore people!

Pete you are neither funny or informed. you are a typical person with a qualification that very few people has.

however you seem to think this makes you an authority on all subjects, sadly this is not the case.

unless you can apply a logical reasoned argument to this debate, which by the way is abouit FUEL PROTESTS, dont bother posting.

Should you take the thread of topic again Pete, I will ask the Mods to lock it!

M

pslewis

YOU said, before I said ANYTHING about you - "My suggestion is that you go and educate yourself about the things you say before you open your disproportionally huge gob"

Now, that to me is a personal insult - I fired one back ...... you clearly wouldn't tell me I had a Huge Gob in real life - so DONT DO IT ON HERE!! Do as you are told and post with words you would use in life!

Pete

pslewis

Grow up you big baby

"You do anything else I don't like I'm going to tell teacher" have you ANY idea how silly you look - be a MAN FFS!!

TOSSER

Enough off topic for you??? Run to mummy and daddy!! tell teach you weasel!

Pete

borat52

In real life I would hit you in the face, so count yourself lucky and learn to contribute.

pslewis

Doesn't quite work like that does it??

Do my quotes show in other peoples posts??

Do you REALLY need a list to place a name on to decide what to read?? Pathetic, are you not grown-up eneough to decide for yourself?

Pete

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Meanwhile, back on-topic...

pslewis

Pete

pslewis

So??

If fuel costs are a big issue - would you consider buying a more economic car to ease the funding pain??

And if not why not??

At what price would petrol have to reach before the Impreza had to go??

Pete

fast bloke

Only cos tony and gordo need to create 5 million silly service jobs a year to take up the slack in manufacturing, needing 100 million grand in extra taxes to pay salaries, as well as the other hundred million to offset lost CGT etc. Pete - if you am half as clever as you think you am you do be needing to be twice as stupid as Joe Average to be thinking labia is doing any good

borat52

If i was working an average salary job, with the average mortgage then the impreza would definately have to go, because to pay the fuel bill would probably cost me another 30 quid a week minimum above a small deisel. Luckily for me i dont have a mortgage to service so i can afford to have the extravagence of my turbo gas guzzler. However surely its unfair when people have to settle for cars they dont really want to buy simply because they cannot afford the petrol for them. Thats a rich/poor divide - in making fuel more expensive you hit the poor as hard as the rich because everybody has to fuel their cars up, so you impose on the poor that they must drive certain types of car.
This is why fuel is an unfair tax. The other side to the argument is that if fuel was cheap we would be driving 6 litre inefficient cars like the americans. This is a fair point and i accept people who say its stupid to damage the environment just for the sake of it. But my belief is that the technology aleready exists to replace fuel, there is just too much vested interest in protecting the value of the current oil reserves to bring hydrogen on line, and once hydrogen tech is out there nobody has a monopoly over the energy supply so a lot of people who are rich at the moment suddenly lose their incomes. In consuming all of the oil quickly we reach the point of breaking the monopoly faster and have to bring the new technology to the market. Personally i wish we were on hydrogen now - less pollution and if somebody found something usefull to do with the oil in the future we would still have lots of it left, but thats not going to happen.
I dont know what a good price for fuel is, but 90p a litre is going to hit mr average salary far too hard for my liking. People today have to fork out massive mortgage payments and also massive fuel payments, before they can even decide what to do with their money - and thats got to break somewhere down the line, as salaries have been rising far more slowly than both housing and fuel.

pslewis

I drive out of need as well as for fun ......

I certainly hope that those on here can afford to drive their cars just for the fun of it? Not going anywhere in particular? just driving?

I must admit that these days I rarely drive the Impreza for 'fun' ... I have fun when driving it but I need to be going somewhere ....

The same cannot be said for the MX5 on a sunny day ..... that is sheer driving for fun - but it does return about 36 mpg - which increases the smile!!

Pete

RB5_245

The trouble with hydogen is it's highly explosive, and so thin a gas that it's difficult to maintain a seal at joints. You could never neglect a system like that the way 80% of cars on the road are neglected it'd be a major risk. One of the reason's they're not yet viable.

And sod the anti motoring lot, I'll be at any protests there is if i can possibly make it.

Dave

Brit_in_Japan

borat52, I don't follow your logic about why you think "it's unfair when people have to settle for cars they dont really want to buy simply because they cannot afford the petrol for them". When you buy any car you take into account the total cost of ownership, the purchase cost, depreciation, petrol and servicing. Is it unfair that although I could afford the petrol prices I can't afford the purchase price of a new Ferrari? Of course not.

In historic terms it is still very cheap and affordable to run a car. Go back 30 years, the majority of households had one car. Now a family with grown kids will think nothing of having a car each and maybe a weekend car too.

I can see a valid arguement about it being more unfair for people who live in rural areas because they must rely on cars much more (often little/no public transport alternative). The only feasible solution to that is to replace fuel duty with road charging. However you know people's reaction to road charging...

Whilst I do agree that there are vested interests in the oil economy, I would disagree that there are alternatives available now. It's being worked on and progress is being made, but it's well short of what's required. Hydbrid vehicles are a good bridging technology, extending the efficiency of existing petrol based technologies. Fuel cells may be the future, but people often forget a key question about the hydrogen alternative, how and where do you get the hydrogen? Electrolosis of water is the easiest method, but that takes electricity. How do you generate that power? Mostly from burning oil and gas, nuclear fission and a little from renewables. Unless there is a major investment in nuclear power (fission and hopefully fusion) the hydrogen economy will never get off the ground.

I don't know what a "fair" fuel price would be. Motoring in the UK is cheaper than here in Japan, even though the price of fuel here is less. Road tolls, higher vehicle tax and the much higher cost of the shaken (Japanese MOT) make cost of running a car higher. The message from Japan is:- you don't know how good you've got it !

RB5_245

Oh, and someone earlyer mentioned all the money govermnent wastes... or something like that, here's an Idea:

Make it manditory that all unemployed people build pyramids.

Think about it, then they wouldn't be able to sit at home doing nothing, they could get the day off to go for job interviews, and the landscape would be much more interesting

Completely off topic, but what the hell

Dave

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

top idea

borat52

I was playing devils advocate when saying its unfair to charge high petrol prices for low MPG cars. My point is, lets say you can get a 4 grand impreza, and you really want one. The alternative is to spend 4 grand on a bland family deisel, which you are leaning towards because the running costs are cheaper. Making fuel expensive makes 'nice' cars the reserve of the rich as modest earners are not able to afford the fuel bills on faster cars. If fuel was halved in price then the difference in fueling an impreza to a deisel would also be halved, making owning nice cars much more accesable to all people in society.

It not an argument i like particulary - i just used it because its the type of spin new labour use to discredit any opposition ideas, so i wondered how they would react to it when used on their own policies.

As for hydrogen im 100% with you, its not ready right now, i phrased by previous statement badly. I was trying to say that if we had run out of petrol yesterday, companies would have devoted enough resources into it to make it ready today. The only reason why they didnt is that there are still billions of dollars in the monopoly of the oil fields.

As for japan, i can't believe how much it costs to run a car over there! It really is a silly amount, but then again i think if we had bullet trains that ran to the nearest few seconds over here our roads would be a lot less congested!
Just out of interest how expensive is public transprt in japan?

borat52

Better still get them to build us some new roads and hospitals...

gsm1

Cobblers to the hauliers and farmers. Last time they pulled this stunt it caused me a lot of inconvenience. If everyone with a grievance took this kind of action we'd be fooked. They can shove their protests up their butt. Only Sun readers would believe these people were protesting on their behalf. If hauliers are going out of business, so be it. That's how the market operates.

borat52

gsm1, agreed the farmers and hauliers don't give a crap about us.
but: 'Thats how the market operates'
The market is not allowed to operated - its not a free market as our government have intervened to make petrol more expansive on this island than most other places on earth, and thus shooting our farmers and hauliers in the foot - they have cause to protest, how would you feel if the govenment passed tax law making your business costs at least 20% more than foreign competitors, to the point where you were facing going out of business?

gsm1

borat52, fuel tax is only one part of the equation. When you take other taxes into consideration the costs are not at least 20% more.
How many truck hauliers have gone out of business? The figures show very few and even the RHA has admitted they are focussing on future losses not current. Road haulage has increased over the years at the demise of Railway freight so why should they complain.
Also there have been reports showing that the taxes paid by road hauliers don't cover the damage they do to the roads and the environment. The rest of us subsidise it.

Freak

Time to fill the large petrol cans in the garage methinks.........

pslewis

I wouldn't bother turning your garage into a Bomb Chamber .........

Its all talk!!

If you can afford to run an Impreza and you want one, buy one - if you can't TOUGH! Its how it has always been

I quite fancy a Helicopter and I can't stretch to running one - so, I can't have one!

If you can't afford the ticket get OFF the ship!

Pete

Freak

Go boil your head blair boy

p.s- i dont have an impreza gimp

Brit_in_Japan

Public transport isn't dirt cheap. I live in Nagoya. A shinkansen (bullet train) ticket one-way to Tokyo, a 2 hour journey with reserved seat costs 10,500 yen, about 50 quid. They don't really have the same complicated fare systems as on the UK trains, a return is simply 2x a single (so a return to Tokyo is 100 quid). There's no discount for booking weeks in advance and no restrictions about when you can travel. You can do it cheaper for about 6000 yen if you travel on non shinkansen trains, but it takes 6 hours+.

My commute to work takes 15 minutes by local train and costs 2 quid. It's quicker and cheaper than driving.

If I take the expressway for a journey of say 300km (approx 200 miles) I would expect to pay around 5000 - 6000 yen (25 - 30 quid) in tolls. But smaller journeys often work out more per/km. The Nagoya Expressway which just helps you get into and out of Nagoya quickly costs 750 yen, (about 4 quid) and you're only on it for 15 km.

Petrol is currently around 130 yen/litre (65p/litre) but it is genuine 100 RON

Trains are remarkably reliable and punctual it must be said. If they're late by a minute you think something terrible must have happened. If they are late it's usually due to typhoons, floods, earthquakes or suicides.

borat52

Its not really the hauliers that suffer the most though. Its the businesses that use them. They have to pay more for haulage and as such its harder for businesses relying on carting things about (including transprt of labour) to exists, so more of them go to the wall, and less of them are able to start as the cost of set up and running is too high to profit. The knock on effect of this is that the haulage industry suffers as less businesses have a use for them due to transporting goods costing a prohibitive amount.

midget1500

it's pretty clear that governments have been unfairly taxing fuel for a long time. now with crude oil prices rising the government should throttle back on the tax to help maintain prices at a constant level. as someone posted earlier, vat is applied to the overall price of fuel so it's a windfall for the government if the raw cost of fuel increases.

and on another note - reduce government spending by stopping the gross wasting of cash that goes on within civil service departments!